[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

It’s not. The only thing the S-Class has going for it right now is the fact that it wears the S-Class badge. I know Mercedes fans don’t like to hear it, but the S-Class is no longer the benchmark it once was. Is it still better than the 7er and A8 in some areas? Sure, but it’s also worse in other areas than the other two.

The S-Class is still a great car but all Mercedes has to do is make the interior shiny and have ambient lighting to give the allusion that it’s this high quality car when Mercedes quality has fallen.

While BMW quality went extraordinarily high 🤣🤣🤣
This is from owner of 4 different BMW cars from 06Z4 to 18 M5. Bmw has far more serious engine problems from Mercedes. Designwise to each it’s own. I’d be careful to call new BMW (reliability wise) better than Mercedes. Each has its weaknesses. Rod bearing issues and cooling related issues killing engines are far less common with Mercedes cars. More electric/electronical related issues with MB vehicles. Also BMW’s engine temperature management is far worse. I like BMW cars. I wouldn’t call them better than MB though. Pick your poison.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

While BMW quality went extraordinarily high 🤣🤣🤣
This is from owner of 4 different BMW cars from 06Z4 to 18 M5. Bmw has far more serious engine problems from Mercedes. Designwise to each it’s own. I’d be careful to call new BMW (reliability wise) better than Mercedes. Each has its weaknesses. Rod bearing issues and cooling related issues killing engines are far less common with Mercedes cars. More electric/electronical related issues with MB vehicles. Also BMW’s engine temperature management is far worse. I like BMW cars. I wouldn’t call them better than MB though. Pick your poison.

Not saying one brand is better than the other, but each of them at this point is living off reputation than the actual product available. There is very little differentiating all 3 German brands.

Ownership aside, it’s one thing to read about issues and say “oh see, x brand is so u reliable” but when you work at an OEM and you see the issues from factory and all the stuff behind the scenes, the general public has no idea.

All the issues you listed, Mercedes is dealing with all of that on all their newer models. Not excusing BMW because I’m aware of their issues too but if you want to discuss who’s trending upwards it’s BMW.

[atomsapple]

Originally Posted by mjr24

No they aren’t. Neither the GT and S class are competitors to the M5 (and the Panamera isn’t really, either). Those are all M8 competitors and why they are priced accordingly.

When it comes to the M5, it’s basically the E63…

BTW, Mercedes reliability is trash.

You had me until Panamera, which is often cross shopped with the M5. Doing it as we speak.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Tyga11

They are comparable though.

Not entirely, was mostly pointing out to the person talking about his S63 that the original post comparing the AMG GT to the M5 wasn’t talking about the S Class. Besides, the E63 S is the comprable vehicle to the M5, they are both mid size luxury sedans.

[JK479]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

No signs of massaging seats, rear comfort access or soft close doors yet right?

Lack of Soft close doors feels archaic

Massage isn’t that great and rear comfort access feels like a cost savings measurement.

But less these three options and a lighter car for the track! (Joking).

[ledphut]

People making all these comparisons when in reality it’s BMW, Audi, Merc in one group and Porsche in another league altogether.

I’m talking performance, fit & finish, refinement, etc. I was a BMW fanboy for a long time and it wasn’t until I drove a Panamera Sport Turismo that I felt the difference in the metrics listed above. At the time I had a brand new absolutely loaded G12 750i for reference.

[cfm56d7b]

Originally Posted by JK479

Lack of Soft close doors feels archaic

Massage isn’t that great and rear comfort access feels like a cost savings measurement.

But less these three options and a lighter car for the track! (Joking).

This is just a sign of the times where least ordered options are closely evaluated by supply chain teams: keep or eliminate to reduce costs. BMW and other car manufacturers face the same dilemma every model year as inflationary pressure continues.

[odiesback]

Crickets 🦗

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by ledphut

People making all these comparisons when in reality it’s BMW, Audi, Merc in one group and Porsche in another league altogether.

I’m talking performance, fit & finish, refinement, etc. I was a BMW fanboy for a long time and it wasn’t until I drove a Panamera Sport Turismo that I felt the difference in the metrics listed above. At the time I had a brand new absolutely loaded G12 750i for reference.

Going to disagree. When Porsche was just making sports cars, yes they were pretty much in their own segment but now with Macan’s, Cayenne’s and Panamera’s, they very much compete with the other German OEM’s - just at a very high premium.

[mjr24]

You are probably in the minority….the Panamera is normally way bigger than what most sporty sedan people like. Some feel the same about the M8….

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Going to disagree. When Porsche was just making sports cars, yes they were pretty much in their own segment but now with Macan’s, Cayenne’s and Panamera’s, they very much compete with the other German OEM’s - just at a very high premium.

Right. Just as RR and Bentley with their sedan offerings together with Cullinan and Bentayga. Just at higher premium.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

Right. Just as RR and Bentley with their sedan offerings together with Cullinan and Bentayga. Just at higher premium.

Not even remotely the same comparison, but I’ll let you sit with that one on your own.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

Not even remotely the same comparison, but I’ll let you sit with that one on your own.

You obviously know I was exaggerating. However Panamera Tutbo with comparable performance starts at 191K. How is it in same or similar class ?

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

You obviously know I was exaggerating. However Panamera Tutbo with comparable performance starts at 191K. How is it in same or similar class ?

edit you are right, its not in the same class its a few skyscrapers above.

[Rafichicago]

Originally Posted by supershaft

its got its own interior not shared with a budget 5 series?

What does it have to do with any of arguments here ? No. If your budget is 130k you don’t cross shop 200k car. Regardless of how har you would want to defend your statement

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Rafichicago

You obviously know I was exaggerating. However Panamera Tutbo with comparable performance starts at 191K. How is it in same or similar class ?

What are we comparing the Panamera to?

If you take the base Panamera, how does that not compete with the 8er Gran Coupe, CLS/GT 4-Door or A7? Having multiple trims within a model range doesn’t take away that at its core, the Panamera competes with all those cars.

Do you think the Macan competes with the X3, GLC and Q5? What about the Cayenne to the X5, GLE and Q7?

[Day Laborer]

I have a week 36 and week 40 slot available at MSRP

Nextlevelautobrokersdc@gmail.com

[ibimmer954]

Originally Posted by OliwerSE

You guys get extended leather?!

Those prices are without taxes right? What would the total be including taxes and fees in your state?

Any estimate on delivery times for the US market?

In California (like the O.P.), add about 9% or so.

That would be before any add-ons (extended warranty, wheel insurance, etc.)

[xmanpro]

Damn this thread is off the rails

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by xmanpro

Damn this thread is off the rails

My fault there LOL.
I mentioned the other V8 + PHEV for cross pricing references and caused this mess


I think the only aspect in which I was pleasantly surprised with this M5 was the price. It was a lot less expensive than I was expecting. I was expecting this car to be a good 20k USD more than it is (I was expecting fully loaded MSRP close to 165k USD)

Its still a good chunk cheaper than the AMG GT 63 S E-Performance, the S 63 AMG E-Performance, and Panamera Turbo Hybrid.

40-50k USD to the AMG GT 63 E-Performance in similar spec level, 60k to the S 63 AMG and Panamera Turbo Hybrid

(I went through the trouble of speccing them equally).

[atomsapple]

Originally Posted by mjr24

You are probably in the minority….the Panamera is normally way bigger than what most sporty sedan people like. Some feel the same about the M8….

2” is way bigger? It also has a shorter wheelbase and is not nearly as tall as the M5 and is lighter.
I dislike large cars and my dream was an M3 but I don’t find G80 attractive. At least with the Porsche you can get rear wheel steering.
I will probably still get an F90 if I find a color I like but if a sport turismo comes available first I will happily take it.

[bandersen]

Originally Posted by ledphut

People making all these comparisons when in reality it’s BMW, Audi, Merc in one group and Porsche in another league altogether.

I’m talking performance, fit & finish, refinement, etc. I was a BMW fanboy for a long time and it wasn’t until I drove a Panamera Sport Turismo that I felt the difference in the metrics listed above. At the time I had a brand new absolutely loaded G12 750i for reference.

But it’s a station wagon, right? Compare it to another high end performance wagon….