[nicknaz]

I really, really hope that with i8 already existing this new platform is the one M uses for a 2 seats sports car.

[xDrive35i]

Originally Posted by Gangsta D

Hope it looks like this...

Eeeeech. I hope it doesn't.

[Roadkiller]

Originally Posted by b0bab0i

pass on the clown shoe.

: :

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by mikal7

What's pricing for this to be set at?

I can't see BMW creating a car that competes with the m3 so I imagine it would have to cost less while being in that sweet spot between a 2m and 235m.

And for Toyota, if the car reaches cayman/m3 territory in pricing that's got to be one very special car to compete.

God, I hope no one at BMW shares your fanboy attitude on this.

If you are going to build a dedicated, 2-seater sports car, than build it right and give it 100% of your effort...there is no point in short-changing that car by giving it less performance than the M4/M3. This car is supposed to be a performance car, the M4/M3, as good as they are, are compromise cars.

Hopefully BMW realizes that there is a huge demand for these kinds of cars in the US and doesn't hold back on this development.

[mikal7]

Fanboy? Wow. You guys need to drive more.

But my question remains- does anyone have into from BMW or Toyota on target pricing for this? This is a business product development what's the benchmark that's all I'm asking. Is it in the gtr price range or less or more? Lose the insults, stick to the topic.

[Kaxon]

Originally Posted by mikal7

Fanboy? Wow. You guys need to drive more.

But my question remains- does anyone have into from BMW or Toyota on target pricing for this? This is a business product development what's the benchmark that's all I'm asking. Is it in the gtr price range or less or more? Lose the insults, stick to the topic.

I doubt anyone knows at this point, it's still very far from market. But, I hope they do realize that a two seater sports car isn't a direct competitor for the M3, and just make a great sports car (which is what both brands are really lacking at the moment).

[Dalko43]

Originally Posted by mikal7

Fanboy? Wow. You guys need to drive more.

But my question remains- does anyone have into from BMW or Toyota on target pricing for this? This is a business product development what's the benchmark that's all I'm asking. Is it in the gtr price range or less or more? Lose the insults, stick to the topic.

No one has any idea on the pricing because this thing is still in development. So there really is no point in discussing it right now.

I doubt it will be in the GTR price range, but we'll have to wait and see on that.

Your comment on keeping this Z car's performance below that of the M4 really contradicts the point behind making a sports car to begin with. I apologize if I mischaracterized you with that "fanboy" comment, but my point stands that BMW should focus on making this the best sports car possible rather than trying to keep its performance below that of the M4.

I highly doubt that M4 owners would cross-shop this car anyhow.

[Falafel Combo]

Um ... yes, please!


.

[John_01]

They should simply build a larger and faster FT-86 and stick in a BMW 3-litre Turbo 6.

No need for hybrid. No need for big dollar development costs.

[Kaxon]

Interesting, here's some pricing info already (for the Toyota version at least).

http://blog.caranddriver.com/upcomin...olet-corvette/

[mikal7]

BMW sees sports car market peak over and it may never fully recover http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho....php?t=1056963

Go read this thread and see what a focus everyone puts on pricing. It's a key factor.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by John_01

No need for hybrid. No need for big dollar development costs.

I'm with you, but if BMW really believes the i8 speaks to the future of sports cars, it makes sense that they would continue this direction. Considering the partnership with Toyota is about hybrid technology... At this point I'd be surprised if it didn't employ electric drive of some sort.

[Efthreeoh]

So I guess all that "We're BMW, we are independent, we don't have to compromise because we don't share platforms." crap is now out the window?

LOL

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

So I guess all that "We're BMW, we are independent, we don't have to compromise because we don't share platforms." crap is now out the window?

LOL

Naive as always.
There is no compromise because BMW are in charge of the development of the joint process of the architecture.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Naive as always.
There is no compromise because BMW are in charge of the development of the joint process of the architecture.

So the Toyota will just be a rebadged BMW? Even better then, we can get a BMW without paying BMW price. BMW I6 engine is not Toyota worthy however.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Naive as always.
There is no compromise because BMW are in charge of the development of the joint process of the architecture.

Wrong. If you really work for BMW apparently you've never seen their commercials and adds claiming independence (od just 6 or so years ago). If the car will have Toyota content then it's compromised; it's not pure BMW. BMW and Toyota have a different client base, so if there will be a joint car developed to meet both client bases it will be compromised. Sorry Scott, stop spreading the BS. "Development of the joint process of the architecture." Really? Just listen to yourself. I'll not even start with the Mini and 1 Series. Please stop. BMW is like every other car company.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Levi

So the Toyota will just be a rebadged BMW? Even better then, we can get a BMW without paying BMW price. BMW I6 engine is not Toyota worthy however.

Yeah, they can use the one from the Supra...

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Wrong. If you really work for BMW apparently you've never seen their commercials and adds claiming independence (od just 6 or so years ago). If the car will have Toyota content then it's compromised; it's not pure BMW. BMW and Toyota have a different client base, so if there will be a joint car developed to meet both client bases it will be compromised. Sorry Scott, stop spreading the BS. "Development of the joint process of the architecture." Really? Just listen to yourself. I'll not even start with the Mini and 1 Series. Please stop. BMW is like every other car company.

In what way doesn't the GT86 meat BMW client base? Not enough "expensive" plastic? Not enough useless complex weight adding toys? Not enough power for traffic light drag races? Oh, I get it, no White/Blue badge.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Levi

In what way doesn't the GT86 meat BMW client base? Not enough "expensive" plastic? Not enough useless complex weight adding toys? Not enough power for traffic light drag races? Oh, I get it, no White/Blue badge.

I'm not talking about a particular car, but rather the two companies. I'm not coming to this as a BMW fanboy, but maybe you missed that. Just 6 years ago BMW was posting adds in all the major car magazines (in the USA at least) and on TV that it didn't share platforms between Brands eluding to other manufacturers that do; i.e. Lexus(Toyota), Infinity(Nissan), Chevrolet(Cadillac), Ford(Lincoln), etc. All the while the 7-Series was slated to underpin the next Rolls Royce, and work had begun on the 1-Series/Mini architecture.

BMW is full BS just like every other manufacturer.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I'm not talking about a particular car, but rather the two companies. I'm not coming to this as a BMW fanboy, but maybe you missed that. Just 6 years ago BMW was posting adds in all the major car magazines (in the USA at least) and on TV that it didn't share platforms between Brands eluding to other manufacturers that do; i.e. Lexus(Toyota), Infinity(Nissan), Chevrolet(Cadillac), Ford(Lincoln), etc. All the while the 7-Series was slated to underpin the next Rolls Royce, and work had begun on the 1-Series/Mini architecture.

BMW is full BS just like every other manufacturer.

While BMW and Toyota target different customer segments, sports cars all target one segment, those who like these cars and want. Where it begins to split is according to the size of the customer's budget.

Sure, all manufactures (in fact most businesses) are full of BS. But I think some insider(s) make(s) the case even worse. PR is one thing, FP (Forum Propaganda), at the core of BMW community is a completely different thing, and by far worse IMO.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Wrong. If you really work for BMW apparently you've never seen their commercials and adds claiming independence (od just 6 or so years ago). If the car will have Toyota content then it's compromised; it's not pure BMW. BMW and Toyota have a different client base, so if there will be a joint car developed to meet both client bases it will be compromised. Sorry Scott, stop spreading the BS. "Development of the joint process of the architecture." Really? Just listen to yourself. I'll not even start with the Mini and 1 Series. Please stop. BMW is like every other car company.

How is the car compromised ? If both companies are pooling their resources to create an architecture that will not only define this segment in cost effective resource to offer serious Carbon intensified construction for a particular segment. Where you will have to pay more for a regular competitor.
Again that is the genius and why it is the envy of our competitors because once again it shows BMW continues to lead in innovation.
BMWi started the revolution to implement CFRP within the volume portfolio next years 7er starts that ball rolling to make BMWs models lighter than their competitors.

Having driven the FWD Active Tourer and the MINI I can tell you that both cars do not drive the same even though they use the same matrix underneath in some various form underneath.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

How is the car compromised ? If both companies are pooling their resources to create an architecture that will not only define this segment in cost effective resource to offer serious Carbon intensified construction for a particular segment. Where you will have to pay more for a regular competitor.
Again that is the genius and why it is the envy of our competitors because once again it shows BMW continues to lead in innovation.
BMWi started the revolution to implement CFRP within the volume portfolio next years 7er starts that ball rolling to make BMWs models lighter than their competitors.

Having driven the FWD Active Tourer and the MINI I can tell you that both cars do not drive the same even though they use the same matrix underneath in some various form underneath.

Okay, so you've missed my point, but we can dig into the issue at the car level if you want. I'll throw the VW Phaeton at you, how well did a $90K VW sell? The average price of a Toyota is maybe $30K now? The average price of a BMW is about $50K. You really think Toyota owners are going to jump $20K in price just because the car has carbon fiber in it and may handle a bit better? Really. And how is BMW going to differentiate itself from Toyota without a significant price delta from the Toyota variant? What BMW badge whore is going to fork over $20K more for the virtually the same car Toyota offers? How would that play at the country club? These are the same arguments that BMW snobs say about Lincoln and Cadillac, those cars are really just Fords and Chevys, right?

Toyota already has Lexus and Lexus makes some pretty good performing cars that easily compete with BMW. And Lexus forced BMW into what it is today anyway, a car company that values luxury over performance, so in essence the compromise BMW made was started in the mid 90's competing with Lexus. Maybe you're right, it's not really a compromise since a BMW now drives no better than a Toyota/Lexus anyway. I guess the old adage is right, if you can't beat 'em, join 'em.

HOORAY!