[David70]

I have been to two F1 races at Indy and one at Austin and find it too expensive to do it often. At Austin, $300 a ticket for me and wife (includes practice, qualifying, and race) then $200 for parking pass and it is $800 to see a race and wife doesn't really care to be there. Add in food, travel, hotel, etc. and it is a high dollar vacation.

F1 like other professional sports seem to justify the price based on their costs but their problems are really irrelevant to me. Like going to a restaurant that is really overpriced for what you get, then having them blame it on lots of managers and expensive rent. Whatever the problem, as long as there are other alternatives for my leisure money, they will have to compete with these alternatives.

I think it is a long term mistake to just have more countries willing to spend the money, like Qatar, when the real fan base in some of these countries is really small.

[NickyC]

Yay, Qatar, can't wait for that race. Another boring run around a dusty track with no scenery or history, surrounded by people who have no love of the sport, watching cars that can't pass one another except in the pits.

I'm booking my flight now.

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by NickyC

Yay, Qatar, can't wait for that race. Another boring run around a dusty track with no scenery or history, surrounded by people who have no love of the sport, watching cars that can't pass one another except in the pits.

I'm booking my flight now.

They should look more at New Jersey instead of Qatar

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by 954Stealth

They should look more at New Jersey instead of Qatar

They need to look at going back to Long Beach more seriously. The fan base is there. Tons of hotels in LA and Orange County.

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

They need to look at going back to Long Beach more seriously. The fan base is there. Tons of hotels in LA and Orange County.

Not a bad idea at all

[David70]

Originally Posted by 954Stealth

They should look more at New Jersey instead of Qatar

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

They need to look at going back to Long Beach more seriously. The fan base is there. Tons of hotels in LA and Orange County.

There's nothing to look at, Bernie tells them the race fees and they decide if they can come up with the money. Who do you think is willing to pay more, NJ, CA, or a Middle Eastern country?

NJ could never come up with the money so they are out. Bernie is willing to have a race there when the money shows up.

Texas kicked in money for Austin, don't see that lasting long term. F1 cares but not enough to turn down the highest bidders for races.

[954Stealth]

We know it won't realistically happen any time in the near future but it's nice to talk about alternatives

[954Stealth]

"the old contract was a disaster for us from a commercial point of view, I don't think there will be 'another contract., so it's bye bye after 2016'"
-- Bernie

What contract is he talking about here now? Monza, Italy. He wants to double his billing to the track ownders from 12 to 22 million Euros. The ability to fund this is coming from the government and their Parliament. So will it be approved? Only if Parliament approves it. That's the only way Monza can come up with the funds to pay Bernie.

and that's the only track for F1 in italy. So what would that mean to the vast numbers of Italian race fans? What would that mean to Ferrari?

[EdM5]

Originally Posted by Elsabor67

Okay,

To give people an idea when it comes to prices, check the links. You will be shocked at what you see. And no, this is not SPAM or MALWARE. This is straight from the F1.com and DTM sites. Now for F1, I had to use the Austrian GP because Hockenheim prices are not available at this time (I wonder why....)

Good comparo.

F1 ticket prices are outrageous. Very few guys can afford to take their family to the race and that is wrong and risky for a sport already in decline.

[954Stealth]

tl;dr: confirming David's experience
Comparing F1 to MotoGP at US Grand Prix, I'm in agreement that prices are significantly different, F1 live viewership is prohibitively and ridiculously expensive. It will be their downfall and if it doesn't get fixed somehow and more than just having discussions on cost to the teams and reducing r&d expenditures F1 will go the way of a motorsport-Holy Roman Empire. Personally, I'll never get to Austin for F1 or even California or NJ or even if it went back to Watkin's Glen. I wouldn't hesitate to pay to see MotoGP, an IMSA race, PWC or even IndyCar if they continue to have pwc/supertruck/Indy Lite support races



Inspired by the above for Europe and euros, let's take a look Stateside at the Circuit of the Americas and F1 vs MotoGP. Some prices may look relatively close but you have to factor in another $80 to $180 JUST TO PARK.

Just for fun, the Pirelli World Challenge has a 3-day weekend GA pass for $59, single day for $19,29,39. If you want a 3-day GA with paddock and be able to park in the BMW area it'd be only $129. parking again only $20 for all 3 days and single day a mere ten bucks that you'd probably have spent on a couple Budweisers anyway

For Formula 1 US Grand Prix at COTA in the US:
Grandstand Seating, 3 Day Pass:
Club $1,300 LOT T
Mezz $1,100 LOT T
Lower $675 LOT T
Trackside $625
Upper $700 LOT T
Middle $650 LOT T
Lower $550 LOT T
Upper $700 LOT F
Middle $650 LOT F
Lower $550
Bleacher 3-Day Pass ranges from T12 - Rows 27-37 $499 to T11 $299
General Admission 3-Day pass is 3-Day Pass $169

Single-Day pass:
General Admission Fri: $59 Sat: $79 Sun: $99
Bleacher seating (turns 4, 5, 9 & 11) Fri: $79 Sat: $149 Sun: $249
Turn 12 Fri: $129 Sat: $199 Sun: $299

*** Now let's look at a comparion of another global Championship series, also vastly popular ***


2015 MotoGP Red Bull Grand Prix of the Americas (MotoGP)
Grandstand seating, 3-day Pass
Club $199 starts at LOT A
Mezz $179 LOT A
Lower $159 LOT A
Trackside $139 starts at LOT A
Upper $179 LOT T
Middle $159
starts at LOT T
Lower $139 LOT T
Upper $189 LOT F
Middle $169 LOT F
Lower $149 starts at LOT F
GENERAL ADMISSION 3-DAY PASS: 3-Day Pass (no parking) $89
Paddock Pass: 3-day pass (LIMITED QUANTITIES) $200

Single-day PASSES
MAIN GRANDSTAND TRACKSIDE FRI: $59 Sat: $79 Sun: $99 LOT F or LOT T General Admission Fri: $39 Sat: $49 Sun: $59
-- T12 Corral: BMW MOTORRAD $199
-- DRY CAMPING (LOT N) $225

PARKING:
Car 3-day $40
Car Single-day $20
Motorcycle 3-day (LOTs B, D) FREE FREE
Motorcycle Single-day (LOTs B, D) FREE
Pizza Hut MotoGP Family 4 Pack Special (included just for yucks)
4 Sunday General Admission tickets + 1 Parking Pass +
4 Pizza Hut Individual Pizzas & 4 24oz Coca Cola's $229 (Save $95)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Let's compare COTA parking F1 vs MotoGP:
3-Day Parking:
Formula One 3-day: $200
MotoGP 3-day 3-day $40

Single-Day Parking:
Formula One Single day: F: $50, Sat: $100 Sun: $200
MotoGP Single day: $20/20/20

How about Premium Grandstand seating for 3 days? That must be close, right? Nope.
Formula One: $550 - $1,300 vs. MotoGP: $149 - $199

General admission 3-day pass? The same "cost to the venue" incurred is probably the same since you don't need a seat and you walk around and buy stuff all afternoon. In fact when you factor in what the vendors pay to be there with their tents and goods they probably make very goond ROI on these tickets.
Formula One: $169 vs MotoGP $89 ($129 with parking included)

How about the single day passes?
Formula One - Fri: $359 Sat: $79 Sun: $99
MotoGP: Fri: $39 Sat: $49 Sun: $59

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

So what do you spend for a weekend in Austin of F1 vs. a weekend of Motorrad?

F1: Once you factor in not going alone, the plane tickets, the hotel room, food and drinks, merchandise, etc. you anywhere from $2500 - $5,000 (even if you fly in and just purchase race day tickets for 2 people)

MotoGP: You'd max out around $2450 even with 2 of the most expensive tickets for practice days, qualifying and race day.














edit: Holy crap I didnt realize my post was that long

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by BlackJetE90

They need to look at going back to Long Beach more seriously. The fan base is there. Tons of hotels in LA and Orange County.

I think it would cost them like 10 million to get the track ready for F1. They extended their contract with Indy until 2018. We'll see what happens after that. I would love F1 in Long Beach, I've been going to the Long Beach Grand Prix for the past 5 years.

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by AW335TT

I think it would cost them like 10 million to get the track ready for F1. They extended their contract with Indy until 2018. We'll see what happens after that. I would love F1 in Long Beach, I've been going to the Long Beach Grand Prix for the past 5 years.

That would be sweet. Unfortunately, contracts and all aside, I don't think they'll host f1 and Fe in the same year at the same venue unless Fe becomes wildly popular and they feed off each other hype OR it fails and becomes yet another support race/weekend event filler for F1

[AW335TT]

Originally Posted by 954Stealth

That would be sweet. Unfortunately, contracts and all aside, I don't think they'll host f1 and Fe in the same year at the same venue unless Fe becomes wildly popular and they feed off each other hype OR it fails and becomes yet another support race/weekend event filler for F1

No way of knowing now what will happen in 4 years... Shit, imagine F1 becomes a support race for FE hahaha jk. I just hope if and when F1 comes to Long Beach it sounds good because the GT cars (esp the 458s) sound amazing. Long Beach GP is SoCals Monaco on a budget and needs F1.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by 954Stealth

"the old contract was a disaster for us from a commercial point of view, I don't think there will be 'another contract., so it's bye bye after 2016'"
-- Bernie

What contract is he talking about here now? Monza, Italy. He wants to double his billing to the track ownders from 12 to 22 million Euros. The ability to fund this is coming from the government and their Parliament. So will it be approved? Only if Parliament approves it. That's the only way Monza can come up with the funds to pay Bernie.

and that's the only track for F1 in italy. So what would that mean to the vast numbers of Italian race fans? What would that mean to Ferrari?

I'd love to know what Bernie's definition of 'financial disaster' is...

[Elsabor67]

Originally Posted by Kyle B

I'd love to know what Bernie's definition of 'financial disaster' is...

Bernie's definition of a financial disaster is when he does not pocket everything from an event.

[Chihuahua]

Originally Posted by Elsabor67

Bernie's definition of a financial disaster is when he does not pocket everything from an event.

TRUTH.

[954Stealth]

Would be a shame to deprive folks of this

[954Stealth]

Not entirely related other than Bernie and bribery:

Gribkowsky hands over bribe to German bank
Gerhard Gribkowsky has handed over more than a quarter of the $44 million alleged 'bribe' he was paid by F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.

Last year, Ecclestone ended his criminal corruption trial by paying a record $100 million to German authorities.

Former banker Gribkowsky, however, remains in jail for receiving the $44 million payment from the 84-year-old Briton.

Prosecutors had argued that Ecclestone paid so that Gribkowsky would agree to the Munich state bank BayernLB underselling its stake in F1's commercial rights.

Now, the German-language business publication Manager Magazin will report in its new edition on Friday that Gribkowsky has handed over $12.5 million of the $44m to his former employer.

The money came out of the Austrian foundation Gribkowsky established when he received Ecclestone's millions.

It is called 'Sonnenschein', translating in English to 'sunshine'.

BayernLB did not comment, but Gribkowsky's lawyer Daniel Amelung confirmed that a "comprehensive reparation" has been made.

BayernLB is still pursuing Ecclestone in court for an incredible $415 million, but the F1 supremo insists he has no intention of settling.

"I have got nothing to settle," he told F1 business journalist Christian Sylt earlier this month.

"I don't think there is any chance of it settling because the bank has to make an effort to say 'we tried'," Ecclestone is quoted by the UK newspaper Express. "The lawsuit is moving forward. I won't settle."

[Dackelone]

Originally Posted by 954Stealth

Not entirely related other than Bernie and bribery:

Gribkowsky hands over bribe to German bank
Gerhard Gribkowsky has handed over more than a quarter of the $44 million alleged 'bribe' he was paid by F1 supremo Bernie Ecclestone.

Last year, Ecclestone ended his criminal corruption trial by paying a record $100 million to German authorities.

Former banker Gribkowsky, however, remains in jail for receiving the $44 million payment from the 84-year-old Briton.

Prosecutors had argued that Ecclestone paid so that Gribkowsky would agree to the Munich state bank BayernLB underselling its stake in F1's commercial rights.

Now, the German-language business publication Manager Magazin will report in its new edition on Friday that Gribkowsky has handed over $12.5 million of the $44m to his former employer.

The money came out of the Austrian foundation Gribkowsky established when he received Ecclestone's millions.

It is called 'Sonnenschein', translating in English to 'sunshine'.

BayernLB did not comment, but Gribkowsky's lawyer Daniel Amelung confirmed that a "comprehensive reparation" has been made.

BayernLB is still pursuing Ecclestone in court for an incredible $415 million, but the F1 supremo insists he has no intention of settling.

"I have got nothing to settle," he told F1 business journalist Christian Sylt earlier this month.

"I don't think there is any chance of it settling because the bank has to make an effort to say 'we tried'," Ecclestone is quoted by the UK newspaper Express. "The lawsuit is moving forward. I won't settle."

So... Gribkowsky returns 11 million euros back to his former employer BayernLB(bank) from his "sunshine" account.

Man I wonder how much money he has saved up in his "rainy weather" account!!!

[954Stealth]

Nurburgring is now saying "just give us the damned race! We don't care if we lose money ... It's better than losing a Germany Grand Prix"

[954Stealth]

This was on Motorsport.com 3 days ago so that means yesterday, I guess:

"The F1 chief executive has set a deadline of this weekend for the conclusion of contract talks with the Nurburgring or Hockenheim.

Many, however, have argued that as one of F1's traditional host nations, the sport should make an exception to keep the German Grand Prix alive.

Ecclestone told the German news agency DPA he begs to differ."

If it's such a great market, then you wouldn't think it would be such a problem for them.

Bernie Ecclestone

[954Stealth]

From the Reuters newswire. This pertains to Silverstone but Germany could take a tip or two from this:

"While Germany's Formula One Grand Prix hangs in the balance, hit by dwindling crowds and rising losses, Britain's Silverstone circuit believes it can make money and attract more fans by charging less.
The 'Lewis Hamilton effect' has helped boost British Grand Prix ticket sales, with home fans eager to see their champion in action, but organizers say the decision to cut prices is as significant.

A promotion offering 1,000 Sunday general admission tickets for 99 pounds ($150) each was sold out in 22 minutes.
So great was the demand that the offer was kept open for a day and 6,000 tickets sold -- many then upgraded to grandstand seats that were also reduced in price.

The circuit's newly appointed managing director Patrick Allen told Reuters that making the race more accessible was the focus now.

"We were asking families to pay over 1,000 pounds to come for a weekend. I don't think that's accessible," he said.

"I was horrified when I came in that a family from Britain could get on a plane, go to Spa, watch the race and fly back again for less than they can come to our home grand prix."

Allen said Silverstone had also revamped the policy for children, with under-11s now coming in free with an adult compared to under two in the past.

"We had 18,000 calls into the call center for tickets...63 percent said 'We weren't going to come but now I can bring my family I'd love to come'," he reported.
"The criticism I had was that we'd lost margin...but we can afford it because of the new people. They buy food, they drink, they spend money on camping and merchandise. We were inundated with people thanking us for making it more accessible."

For next year, Allen said, Silverstone was thinking of emulating budget airlines with an escalated pricing model.
"It's a bit like if you are buying an advance rail ticket to go to London or a Ryanair ticket. The earlier you buy it, that's a great deal. If you buy on the day, it's expensive," he said.

"We'll make money," he said of the new approach. "For me, not to have a British Grand Prix is unthinkable. There are ways to make it work and you don't make it work by keeping putting the prices up."
Reuters