[swanson]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

What a sad "enthusiast" forum this has become. Arguing about how pretty your interiors are :/

It's far lighter than any of the overweight Germans

2016 CTS-V: 4,145 lbs.
2015 M5: 4,354 lbs. (4,387 auto)
2015 M6 Sedan: 4,430 lbs.
2015 E63 AMG: 4,387 lbs.
2015 E63 AMG S : 4,431 lbs.
2015 RS7: 4,475 lbs.

Has way more power than any of them, and now far cheaper than any of them.

With a legit top-notch chassis to back up those numbers.

While I like the ATS-V, the new CTS-V is much more impressive compared to its competition.

Its the classic responses. If you beat them in performance, they go to the interior. If you beat them in the interior, they go to German engineering. There is always something these "enthusiasts" find to justify their choices. That M3/M4 interior is absolutely a let down. Look at the "styling". BMW's current cars need major makeovers both inside and out. Lets see what the next generation of cars looks like.

[Alfisti]

Agree re. beemer interiors, they bore me to death, always have. Seats are often done well on higher trims but the dash area always feels like an operating table. Audi shits all over them.

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

What a sad "enthusiast" forum this has become. Arguing about how pretty your interiors are :/

This car is about actually driving. It's far lighter than any of the Germans.

2016 CTS-V: 4,145 lbs.
2015 M5: 4,354 lbs. (4,387 auto)
2015 M6 Sedan: 4,430 lbs.
2015 E63 AMG: 4,387 lbs.
2015 E63 AMG S : 4,431 lbs.
2015 RS7: 4,475 lbs.

Has way more power than any of them, and now far cheaper than any of them.

With a legit top-notch chassis to back up those numbers.

While I like the ATS-V, the new CTS-V is much more impressive compared to its competition.

If this place is sad then go. Why post only negative things?

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by buildbright

If this place is sad then go. Why post only negative things?

I post positive things about great cars that deserve positive things being said about them, no matter the manufacturer. I've never owned a GM vehicle and I don't plan to anytime soon. As a long-time BMW owner, I'll fully admit this car is amazing.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by swanson

Are these interiors less busy for you?

Wow, look at those quality plastic shifters.

[DieGrüneHölle]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Agree re. beemer interiors, they bore me to death, always have. Seats are often done well on higher trims but the dash area always feels like an operating table. Audi shits all over them.

Exactly. BMW owners are throwing stones from glasses houses, when talking interiors.

[wisesoul]

CTS-V is going to be epic I'm sure. But the hood scoop and nascar wing don't do it any favors. Plus CUE is still a piece of sh*t. It's also a shame that the LT4 isn't track ready out of the factory like the S63Tu is. They seriously need to work on cooling if the Z06 is any indication

[MCarsFan]

I think it's going to be a great car! I would love to drive one and get a feel for how it drives and handles! I have owned a lot of BMWs and I love them but this car looks like a fighter jet! If it drives as well as it looks...should be a winner.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by TonyTone

Heard the pricing today and was sorta shocked also. Just like the first CTS-V you really are just paying for the motor. Unless the interior upgrade is drastic like the Z06 to the prior years, I won't be picking one up. The gauge cluster is nice but we are in 2015...whats up with that shift lever. Just my 0.02

Why do you think you're just paying for the motor? You don't think they made further chassis improvements? If it is just the motor, isn't that what the M5 is as well?

Why does it need an electronic shifter?

Why do people get in their heads that if the Germans do something, the competition has to mirror or else it is inferior? If the Germans made the M5, E63, and RS6 FWD, would you now claim the CTS-V being RWD as being inferior? Before the Germans(outside of Audi) were RWD only, you guys had no problem with the M5 and E63 being RWD only. Now that AWD is starting to become available in these vehicles, you guys now think any vehicle that lacks AWD and a DCT sucks.

Originally Posted by wisesoul

CTS-V is going to be epic I'm sure. But the hood scoop and nascar wing don't do it any favors. Plus CUE is still a piece of sh*t. It's also a shame that the LT4 isn't track ready out of the factory like the S63Tu is. They seriously need to work on cooling if the Z06 is any indication

And I guess the M5 isn't track ready either because that engine gets heat soak as well...... Downside of automakers going forced induction.

[jaco]

If you have been in a new Cadillac interior, they are very very nice and better than BMW to me.

The pricing on the other hand, went crazy which = insane depreciation.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by jaco

If you have been in a new Cadillac interior, they are very very nice and better than BMW to me.

The pricing on the other hand, went crazy which = insane depreciation.

It's already $10K cheaper than the M5 and $17K cheaper than the E63.

How much cheaper do you want it?

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by quagmire

It's already $10K cheaper than the M5 and $17K cheaper than the E63.

How much cheaper do you want it?

The m5 will hold its value you better and if your smart you can get an amazing deal on a M5, even bigger with ED.


To the interior comment these Cadillac ones are junk. My dad has an XTS with CUE. Rattle boxes, with finish coming off the trim pieces. Look at the old CTS-V's the interiors don't hold up like an M5. This is fact and yes I want my 100k dollar car to feel nice inside.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by buildbright

The m5 will hold its value you better and if your smart you can get an amazing deal on a M5, even bigger with ED.


To the interior comment these Cadillac ones are junk. My dad has an XTS with CUE. Rattle boxes, with finish coming off the trim pieces. Look at the old CTS-V's the interiors don't hold up like an M5. This is fact and yes I want my 100k dollar car to feel nice inside.

Question.... If Cadillac held its value better than BMW. Would you go for the Cadillac or the BMW? I buy a car that I like best. And I think it would be the same for you. If you liked the BMW better, you would take the depreciation hit. Depreciation for me only would come into play if it was used as a tie breaker where I loved both vehicles, got the best prices I could for both vehicles, and I still couldn't make a decision. Depreciation hits all new cars hard, especially luxury cars.

I can raise your one bad experience with my good experience with my dads ATS's interior is doing just fine......

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Question.... If Cadillac held its value better than BMW. Would you go for the Cadillac or the BMW? I buy a car that I like best. And I think it would be the same for you. If you liked the BMW better, you would take the depreciation hit. Depreciation hits all new cars hard, especially luxury cars.

I can raise your one bad experience with my good experience with my dads ATS's interior is doing just fine......

The value reply was in response to how much cheaper do you want it. A lot of people got burned with expensive GM products. Like the ZR1. But yes I buy cars I enjoy and have an acceptable ROI. It's always financially a negative ROI but enough to vindicate my enjoyment and within reason.

Wait until your ATS is 5 years old and has 100k. GM is famous for there lack of quality interiors. Don't think I am hating on GM. I own a new GMC Sierra and almost bought a CTS-V twice.

I drove the ATS after I test drove the S4 and 335i. I chose the car I liked the most.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by buildbright

The value reply was in response to how much cheaper do you want it. A lot of people got burned with expensive GM products. Like the ZR1. But yes I buy cars I enjoy and have an acceptable ROI. It's always financially a negative ROI but enough to vindicate my enjoyment and within reason.

Wait until your ATS is 5 years old and has 100k. GM is famous for there lack of quality interiors. Don't think I am hating on GM. I own a new GMC Sierra and almost bought a CTS-V twice.

I drove the ATS after I test drove the S4 and 335i. I chose the car I liked the most.

I only brought up the competition's prices because people calling the MSRP crazy. I don't think people would be happy with the CTS-V unless it was priced for M3 money..... Which is stupid. Cadillac is not the Corvette.....

My Saturn is 8.5 years old and the interior is solid. Our 2002 Suburban interior is solid( though back when GM's interiors were absolute trash materials wise).

[buildbright]

Originally Posted by quagmire

I only brought up the competition's prices because people calling the MSRP crazy. I don't think people would be happy with the CTS-V unless it was priced for M3 money..... Which is stupid. Cadillac is not the Corvette.....

My Saturn is 8.5 years old and the interior is solid. Our 2002 Suburban interior is solid( though back when GM's interiors were absolute trash materials wise).

I know Cadillac's deprecition is worse on performance and flagship products
Older CTS-V's, DTS, XLR, STS-V.

Everyone's opinion of solid is different. To me BMW's among other German cars are some of the best ever.

I think the CTS-V is priced to high but also think the M3 is too high also.

[NickyC]

Originally Posted by swanson

Its the classic responses. If you beat them in performance, they go to the interior. If you beat them in the interior, they go to German engineering. There is always something these "enthusiasts" find to justify their choices. That M3/M4 interior is absolutely a let down. Look at the "styling". BMW's current cars need major makeovers both inside and out. Lets see what the next generation of cars looks like.

I agree, the newer M3/M4s are a complete let down. I've been bummed out with the M3 for quite some time.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by buildbright

I know Cadillac's deprecition is worse on performance and flagship products
Older CTS-V's, DTS, XLR, STS-V.

Everyone's opinion of solid is different. To me BMW's among other German cars are some of the best ever.

I think the CTS-V is priced to high but also think the M3 is too high also.

Agreed everyone has their opinion, but these vehicles can only be so much cheaper than the competition before it creates a negative perception vs helping Cadillac.

Case in point the buyers leaving Cadillac isn't going for the Germans or Lexus, they are going back down to the mainstream brands, which showed Cadillac only had the value customer, not the image driven one which they are going for. GM has Buick to chase the value minded ones.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I count 8 buttons and two switches... On one of the BMWs I count 10 buttons and 2 switches...

4 buttons on the door are the seat memory, conveniently placed IMO; not on the seat where you can't see them and need to know braille to use them, or have to open the door to get to them like my Z4.

All BMWs used to have the window buttons on the console (which I liked) and now the window buttons are on the door, so was that bad placement when they were on the console?

And who the hell would buy a car with a pushbutton parking brake control, who?! Especially when it's on the left side of the steering wheel where traditionally parking brake pedals and pedal releases are located. OMG!

I don't need to look at a button to be able to use it. Use your other senses. Had plenty of cars that use the seat buttons like BMW has been doing, it's damn intuitive. And no, they weren't all BMWs.

I thought the caddy had far fewer buttons on the wheel at first too. Go back and look. There are buttons in every direction around the switches. Since someone brought up the BMW comparison (really I couldn't care less), the picture with the most has 5 buttons and a switch on each side. The Caddy has 8 buttons and a switch on each side. Yup. All that on the steering wheel where you are getting busy. It's certainly not all necessary. Keep the steering wheel as simple as possible. It's a steering wheel, not a fucking command center.

I would prefer the window buttons on the console. Tucked into a space so they aren't obtrusive.

My first car had a parking brake pedal and release in the "traditional" position. I hated it. I always tagged my shin on it. My knee would always compress the release partially if I wasn't being careful. Stupid design. And no, I'm not some 6'5" elephantine orangutan.

To all the people getting pissy over complaints about the interior quality or design: It's part of the car. It's the part of the car you will interface with every time you get in. They are doing a great job with the powertrain and suspension. Why can't they keep up with the interior? My 34k Subaru had a better interior than these new cars. It doesn't have to be expensive, but it damn well should be well sorted, driver oriented (like the car is), and what materials you use they should be at least of mediocre quality and well fit.

[desant89]

I'm not a fan of the CTS, but to even bring up depreciation while being a BMW owner is absolute insanity. It does not take long to be able to buy a BMW or Mercedes at 50% off the original owners cost.

Sticking to the cars themselves, all the American cars develop creeks and rattles after a really short period that I cannot deal with. You can just feel the cheapness in quality inside.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I don't need to look at a button to be able to use it. Use your other senses. Had plenty of cars that use the seat buttons like BMW has been doing, it's damn intuitive. And no, they weren't all BMWs.

I thought the caddy had far fewer buttons on the wheel at first too. Go back and look. There are buttons in every direction around the switches. Since someone brought up the BMW comparison (really I couldn't care less), the picture with the most has 5 buttons and a switch on each side. The Caddy has 8 buttons and a switch on each side. Yup. All that on the steering wheel where you are getting busy. It's certainly not all necessary. Keep the steering wheel as simple as possible. It's a steering wheel, not a fucking command center.

I would prefer the window buttons on the console. Tucked into a space so they aren't obtrusive.

My first car had a parking brake pedal and release in the "traditional" position. I hated it. I always tagged my shin on it. My knee would always compress the release partially if I wasn't being careful. Stupid design. And no, I'm not some 6'5" elephantine orangutan.

To all the people getting pissy over complaints about the interior quality or design: It's part of the car. It's the part of the car you will interface with every time you get in. They are doing a great job with the powertrain and suspension. Why can't they keep up with the interior? My 34k Subaru had a better interior than these new cars. It doesn't have to be expensive, but it damn well should be well sorted, driver oriented (like the car is), and what materials you use they should be at least of mediocre quality and well fit.

Well I think interiors, like exteriors are somewhat subjective to the eye and use of the beholder. I've used the Caddy wheel for a week as a loaner and my only complaint was the dash lights (including the steering wheel lights don't dim down far enough). But the wheel has 8 (two-way) buttons and two (4-way) switches; I think you are partially counting functions for the toggle switches, and even with that I still don’t come up with 18. I do think most new cars have Speed-Racer-itus when it comes to steering wheel controls. Also, why BMW got rid of the cruise control stalk from the E30 I'll never know, it was the best control for cruise control I've ever used. and the E30's HVAC, best in the business too; 3 levers one ech for defrost, center vents, and floor. Heat dial and fan speed. Simple.

I've put about 900 miles behind an ATS interior (similar to the CTS) and it is no better or worse than a F30 interior IMO.

The comment on the placement of the electronic parking brake switch is opinion. I just suggested it's location made sense since many cars with foot-operated parking brakes have the handle release at that location. My Hummer does. You are uptight about the design of some completely different car and convolving it with the CTS. I'd be able to say the center console placement of a hand brake gets in the way when I lean over to get my CDs out of the passenger door well... It's neither here nor there and up to an individual buyer to decide if he likes it. But you are trashing the CTS for some really stupid reasons IMO.

Cheers.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Also, why BMW got rid of the cruise control stalk from the E30 I'll never know, it was the best control for cruise control I've ever used.

Going to digress from the interior discussion on the CTS as I'm not trying to convince anyone. Honestly pretty disappointed with the F30 interior as well for whatever that's worth. The complaints come from someone that is ~80% there to buying one of their cars, but until the cockpit is a nice place to be, it will never happen. It's a small first world crisis and a total dealbreaker for me. I hope you understand my disappointment better.

How did the E30 cruise control stalk work? I love the stalk on my E82, but some complain that it gets in the way. I understand that.