[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by P1et

It's hard for me to figure out what goes through someone's mind when planning something like this. He's obviously upset with black people, but I'd think he'd be upset with a few black people specifically. Why not go after them, as opposed to innocent black people at church?

Sad realities of racism.

Having such disdain for a specific group of people can lead to some horrific things since to everyone else, all he did was kill some innocent people trying to enjoy a church service.

I've dealt with it for much of my childhood growing up in a rural area. Sadly you get used to the fact that people hate you for no other reason than your DNA instead of some trait that you actually have control over.

[Patrick303]

Some crazy details in this story. First, I find it hard to believe there were ZERO signs that this kid wasn't right in the head and had hate crime tendencies prior to this event. And his uncle bought him a .45 handgun for this birthday this year?!

And the article I read states that he reloaded 5 TIMES during the shooting as victims pleaded with him. How did his little ass not get tackled the first time he was empty?!

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Patrick719

And the article I read states that he reloaded 5 TIMES during the shooting as victims pleaded with him. How did his little ass not get tackled the first time he was empty?!

Because real life isn't like movies. People, just like any other living thing, have a fight or flight trigger. He didn't bust into a building with a bunch of MMA fighters and trained Marines, he barged into a building with men and women (and possibly children) of all ages.

Whenever I think of badasses who'd fight a gun man unarmed, your weeknight church going crowd doesn't register in my head as the defining demographic.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Because real life isn't like movies. People, just like any other living thing, have a fight or flight trigger. He didn't bust into a building with a bunch of MMA fighters and trained Marines, he barged into a building with men and women (and possibly children) of all ages.

Whenever I think of badasses who'd fight a gun man unarmed, your weeknight church going crowd doesn't register in my head as the defining demographic.

I was Marine and I would have been running like a little bitch. You are trained to take mother fuckers down with surgical precision BUT with a rifle. When I was in we also got a ton of LINE training, which is great in CQ against an UNARMED opponent(s). When your opponent has gun and you don't, the only thing you can do is pray he has really bad aim, and that you made it right with God because you are about to meet him.

BTW someone with weapons training can reload a hand gun in like a split second, if his magazines are in close proximity. So yeah unless you are Superman or Flash there is no way in hell you're gonna tackle the dude.

[Patrick303]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

Because real life isn't like movies. People, just like any other living thing, have a fight or flight trigger. He didn't bust into a building with a bunch of MMA fighters and trained Marines, he barged into a building with men and women (and possibly children) of all ages.

Whenever I think of badasses who'd fight a gun man unarmed, your weeknight church going crowd doesn't register in my head as the defining demographic.

Ok, how about the 2nd or 3rd time he's empty? At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn". It had to be obvious that he wasn't going to stop.

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by Patrick719

Ok, how about the 2nd or 3rd time he's empty? At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn". It had to be obvious that he wasn't going to stop.

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

It's easy to say that from the comfort of the couch. It's a whole different ball game when you're thrown into the arena. The human mind is a lot more complex than that. For instance in WW2 Nazis would routinely round up civilians for executions as reprisal for resistance. The civilians would be rounded up and marched to their execution sites without resisting. Why? Because when you are unarmed and there is a gun pointed at you there is not a fucking thing you can do except hope that your death will be quick; it's what you can call life's unfortunate checkmate.

This is why in bootcamp they stress that you NEVER, EVER drop your rifle because without it you are just a target.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Patrick719

At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn".

Unfortunately, it's probably safe to say that most church-goers are not the "fight" type.

Originally Posted by Patrick719

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

Wolves hunt sheep. They look for soft targets which maximizes their probability of success. High density gatherings like church services, malls, large gatherings...they're prime targets. If you have the ability and capacity to defend yourself and others, it would be silly not to be armed where ever legal.

[TXSTYLE]

Originally Posted by Whostheboss

And his trial won't start till about 2018 or 2019. He may get death penalty. If so, by the time they execute him, it'll probably be 2030.

This is the infuriating horseshit that I can't stand here!!! I am confident that if we inacted "public torture and execution" for heinous and violent crimes such as this, a vast majority would cease! Your thoughts?

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by Delta0311

It's easy to say that from the comfort of the couch. It's a whole different ball game when you're thrown into the arena. The human mind is a lot more complex than that. For instance in WW2 Nazis would routinely round up civilians for executions as reprisal for resistance. The civilians would be rounded up and marched to their execution sites without resisting. Why? Because when you are unarmed and there is a gun pointed at you there is not a fucking thing you can do except hope that your death will be quick; it's what you can call life's unfortunate checkmate.

This is why in bootcamp they stress that you NEVER, EVER drop your rifle because without it you are just a target.

When Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot at the event in Arizona, apparently what stopped the carnage from being even worse was that when the crazy gunman emptied his first magazine, he had issues and fumbled with getting trying to get the second one in.

At that point he was tackled by some brave people in the crowd. I guess they realized they had a tiny window of time where he effectively didnt have a loaded gun, but rather a couple of pieces of metal in his hand. Also, they were apparently right next to him. If the reload is executed well, and/or the shooter is out of arms reach, then it's a whole other level of brave to try and approach and tackle an armed nutjob who has already shown he has no apprehension about pulling the trigger.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

I am confident that if we inacted "public torture and execution" for heinous and violent crimes such as this, a vast majority would cease! Your thoughts?

Like in Saudi Arabia? China?

No...hate, violence, and mental disorder are a part of the human condition and has been around since there were humans. No legislation or puntative threats will prevent evil from living among us.

[Mr Tonka]

Kids are all kinds of messed up these days. Our society has dealt them difficult hands and i'm glad i didn't grow up and later than i did.

Originally Posted by Patrick719

Ok, how about the 2nd or 3rd time he's empty? At that point it wasn't "fight or flight" it was "fight or wait your turn". It had to be obvious that he wasn't going to stop.

And it's unfortunate that no one else was armed. They could have potentially minimized the damage. I always have my handgun with me unless I'm going somewhere that doesn't allow it.

People still ask why I carry in church. Because hate knows no bounds.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

This is the infuriating horseshit that I can't stand here!!! I am confident that if we inacted "public torture and execution" for heinous and violent crimes such as this, a vast majority would cease! Your thoughts?

IMHO, public torture and execution only works as a deterrent for the evil people who still have enough sanity left to posses a self-preservation instinct.

Sadly I think it wont make a bit of difference to deter those who are totally nuts, and may be bent on going out themselves in a "blaze of glory" anyways, so the torture and execution will never come to pass for them.

I have to say I was surprised to hear they got him alive.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Kids are all kinds of messed up these days. Our society has dealt them difficult hands

...and parent's are in part, responsible. Sorry for going OT.

[Delta0311]

Originally Posted by C5driver

...and parent's are in part, responsible. Sorry for going OT.

Yup.. And wouldn't be suprised if the kid has some Waffen-SS and swastika posters hanging in his room. And probably had a giant size poster of Hitler tossing up his salute, while rocking his Sunday's finest, hanging over his bed.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

IMHO, public torture and execution only works as a deterrent for the evil people who still have enough sanity left to posses a self-preservation instinct.

Sadly I think it wont make a bit of difference to deter those who are totally nuts, and may be bent on going out themselves in a "blaze of glory" anyways, so the torture and execution will never come to pass for them.

I have to say I was surprised to hear they got him alive.

Agreed, typically these kind of psychopaths want to die in the act and have their name live on in infamy. Not sure that going back to public hangings, or drawing and quartering people will stop those who still want to kill. They will just continue to kill then kill themselves on their terms.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

When Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was shot at the event in Arizona, apparently what stopped the carnage from being even worse was that when the crazy gunman emptied his first magazine, he had issues and fumbled with getting trying to get the second one in.

At that point he was tackled by some brave people in the crowd. I guess they realized they had a tiny window of time where he effectively didnt have a loaded gun, but rather a couple of pieces of metal in his hand. Also, they were apparently right next to him. If the reload is executed well, and/or the shooter is out of arms reach, then it's a whole other level of brave to try and approach and tackle an armed nutjob who has already shown he has no apprehension about pulling the trigger.

To your point, most people who are doing this haven't necessary trained for it. They may have gone to the shooting range, they may be proficient with a weapon, but chances are they have never carried out any killings prior to their snapping point. They also can be so intently focused on their evil plan that they may be affected by tunnel vision while in the act. Because of these things coupled with the likelihood of these people having a cowardly character, a direct action against them tends to end the ordeal.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by C5driver

...and parent's are in part, responsible. Sorry for going OT.

Don't be sorry, i'll and many others will stand next to you holding the same sign.

[MiddleAgedAl]

Originally Posted by Templar

Agreed, typically these kind of psychopaths want to die in the act and have their name live on in infamy. Not sure that going back to public hangings, or drawing and quartering people will stop those who still want to kill. They will just continue to kill then kill themselves on their terms.

And the damn media helps them in their quest to be infamous. While he was still on the loose, I get publishing his name and photo was necessary, but once in custody, I'd prefer to see any mention of his name or photo stop completely. Every little bit helps to reduce their ranking in future search engine queries. Just refer to them as the loser/coward who did x....

[C5driver]

Ironically, some of the most socially responsible acts (where legal) would be to get professional training with a recognized school, being armed (always), and living in condition yellow.

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by MiddleAgedAl

And the damn media helps them in their quest to be infamous

The 'media' has become white noise

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by TXSTYLE

This is the infuriating horseshit that I can't stand here!!! I am confident that if we inacted "public torture and execution" for heinous and violent crimes such as this, a vast majority would cease! Your thoughts?

Probably, still innocent until proven guilty. Plus this whole thing:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth...s_Constitution

[C5driver]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eighth...s_Constitution

Well there you go...being all constitutional and civilized and shit