[angelr]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Watching the whole video, they dont give a single performance Stat or a Stat by how much they were able to improve it.

by giving it gear noise apparently

[FC4]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

with on the streets you mean a 0-60 trafficlight sprint. On the autobahn the tesla is nowhere.
I think in the handling department it's mostly tyres and maybe different wheel geometry. The car corners fairly flat so I doubt shocks and swaybars will make big improvements. It's mostly struggles with the weight in the corners. lots of understeer (and unpredictable if you look at 2:36 imho) and lots of tyre squeal.
I'd imagine a car which has all its weight down low and inbetween the wheels to have a more neutral handling. In the video it seems like its really struggling with turn in understeer.

You do realize you're talking about an all-electric family sedan...right?

The mere fact you guys are even talking about the performance of it should tell you something...

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by FC4

You do realize you're talking about an all-electric family sedan...right?

The mere fact you guys are even talking about the performance of it should tell you something...

All I see people talking about with tesla is acceleration performance. If it doesn't compare well outside of a 0-60 time then clearly it's not a true strength of the car and maybe other characteristics are of greater weight? Never hear about that stuff personally. All the sales guy at a local show wanted to talk about was 0-60.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by FC4

You do realize you're talking about an all-electric family sedan...right?

The mere fact you guys are even talking about the performance of it should tell you something...

Why? what should it tell us?
It's still a 100k (or something like that, dont know the us list price) car. Its not for free, you pay a lot of money so you may expect something. I mean a car is a car and a buck is a buck.
And the numbers say that its very good at a trafficlight sprint, but not so good at a track or challenging road. For that you're probably better off getting an m5, m3 or so.
so if you get your kicks from trafficlight sprints and your life pretty much ends by 70-80mph and a when you see a corner your first reaction is to slow down, the tesla is probably your dream car. But bmw builds their M cars with a different mindset (well not only bmw..). And that shows in that video I posted of the nordschleife. That m4 looks to me far superior in the corners too. And it has stamina.
All manufacturers that want to make a performance car go to the track.
Tesla never published a nordschleife lap time, but they were very quick to state that it had the same performance as a mclaren F1 (official Tesla statement).
Yeah in a straight line 0-60, as if thàt sets the definition for performance. Someone here mentioned one-trick pony....

[Bmw doubles]

Hey, the M5 is a family sedan. Then again a sedan is a sedan is a sedan. Tesla kills in the 1/4 mile too. On the track it's not the worst out there, but is definitely not crushing on that level. Here's the tesla getting killed

[natedog7700]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

this is that video I mentioned: P85d on the nordschleife with a clearly above average driver (pretty good I think, he's clearly not limited by his knowledge of the ring but limited by the performance of the car)



Strange vehicle dynamics (I think a lot of understeer, but the car stays remarkably flat), and -what I presume - massive current limiting.

I mean if you look at 4min10, there is a hill (from breidscheid through ex-muhle, exiting ex-muhle), and it slopes up, and you can see he's flooring it (seen in the speedo), but if you see how fast the speedo climbs (thats in kph!, not mph).
That doesnt look like 700hp to me, but maybe max 200hp. It;s not very impressive. Clearly the batteries cant take it and current limiting is immense. From 92kph or 57mph (after braking for exmuhle so from the point he's flooring it as he exits the corner) to 152kph or 94mph takes 10,5 or 11 seconds on my stopwatch on a moderate slope. Thats rather average instead of supercar performance.

So that probably also doesnt make for a good car to challenge a mountain pass or similar challenging road where some stamina is required. (so driving faster than grandma speeds)

Thats because its not. The P90D has 700hp not the P85D. If i remember correctly it has around 500hp and weighs 5000lbs. Not to mention its electric so the up top "game" is weak compared to any gas engine.

[GuidoK]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_...Specifications

p85d max motor power 691hp, ludicrous mode 762hp

But then again batterypower is 504hp/532hp
So I have no idea how to judge that power with those different numbers. (p90d has same specs according to wikipedia?)
Or do you have a better source?
But if I'd judge it how that car accelerates up on that hill exiting ex-mühle, I'd say 200hp max. A 500hp car would be much much much faster even if it weighs 2,5 tonnes. and those speeds there arent that exiting: 57-92mph as I wrote before.

[FC4]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

Why? what should it tell us?
It's still a 100k (or something like that, dont know the us list price) car. Its not for free, you pay a lot of money so you may expect something. I mean a car is a car and a buck is a buck.
And the numbers say that its very good at a trafficlight sprint, but not so good at a track or challenging road. For that you're probably better off getting an m5, m3 or so.
so if you get your kicks from trafficlight sprints and your life pretty much ends by 70-80mph and a when you see a corner your first reaction is to slow down, the tesla is probably your dream car. But bmw builds their M cars with a different mindset (well not only bmw..). And that shows in that video I posted of the nordschleife. That m4 looks to me far superior in the corners too. And it has stamina.
All manufacturers that want to make a performance car go to the track.
Tesla never published a nordschleife lap time, but they were very quick to state that it had the same performance as a mclaren F1 (official Tesla statement).
Yeah in a straight line 0-60, as if thàt sets the definition for performance. Someone here mentioned one-trick pony....

LOL. Ok.

All else remaining the same...if their top model went 0-60 MPH in 5.0 seconds and ran a 1/4 mile in 13.5 like any average average family sedan, the car would sell just as well and would be just as downright amazing of a package overall. The acceleration characteristics are just an ancillary benefit of electric cars, not its intended purpose. The i3 the quickest BMW from 0 to 30. Had it not been a complete pile of shit, M3 owners would feel their egos threatened and call it a one-trick pony, too.

The only people who care about a Tesla's performance are kids on forums and people who don't own them.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. Ok.

The only people who care about a Tesla's performance are kids on forums and people who don't own them.

Ho Ho! Look out boys and girls. Shots fired.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by FC4

The only people who care about a Tesla's performance are kids on forums and people who don't own them.

The people at tesla themselves car about the performance. It is the only brand that boasts so much about performance and gives no predicted laptimes or other indications what so ever. For tesla performance means 0-60. Everything else is not performance apparently.
So what you're saying is total BS. The 0-60 performance figures play a key role in tesla's marketing strategy.

The I3 is more of a 3 trick pony. It's more affordable, and more energy efficient per mile. And butt ugly like the rear of a pony.
But bmw doesnt market the i3 as a performance car, where tesla does. Because bmw knows that real performance also means you have to do some serious work at the track. Performance is useless if you cant go around a corner. Think 60's and 70's muscle cars that were beaten on tracks by little fiats and alfa's (or bmw's 2002's), all with less power but superior roadholding/design.

We're talking here about the performance of a tesla (this is a topic about performance tuning of the model S).
If you want to talk about how good it is as an electric car, a daily driver or what tesla has done for integration of the electric car and the infrastructure that comes with it... fine, but that means that you're changing the subject.

[Bmw doubles]

Performance is always an issues regardless of car choice. If it's not then a nice Ford Taurus or Nissian Ultima would be fine.

[P1]

I won't make fun of the technology, but the interior looks cheap and from the outside it might as well be a Hyundai.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by P1et

I won't make fun of the technology, but the interior looks cheap and from the outside it might as well be a Hyundai.

Thats an insult to Hyundai.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

A beemer is not exotic either.

It's a motorcycle

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by FC4

LOL. Ok.

All else remaining the same...if their top model went 0-60 MPH in 5.0 seconds and ran a 1/4 mile in 13.5 like any average average family sedan...

Would you mind listing few "average family sedans" capable of 13.5 sec. 1/4 mile?

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

Why are you guys saying "a one trick pony"? 0-60 is unbeatable, it drives itself, I think it looks exotic and now it's tunable.

Looks less exotic than a Lexus.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Alvinized52

I agree with Bmw doubles ...

For all of you calling it a "one trick pony", you've obviously never driven a Tesla.
I must admit that styling of the Model S isnt as aggressive as an M4... for my taste any way. But damn... there's so much tech to Tesla cars. And the handling is amazing!

My brother landed a job in development for Tesla about a year and a half ago. They are now in the midst of redevelopment of their roadster ( the car that put them on the map). The chasis and styling of the previous was literally borrowed on the Lotus Elise. This time, they are starting from scratch. I got a chance to see some early concept renders... Its going to look crazy and definitely in the realm of what an " exotic supercar" should look like.

As much as I want to be a hater and defend my purchase of my M4, I must admit... Their tech blows our BMWs out of the water.... And their next generation roadster will be incredible! They have a new battery tech that is ridiculous... Im sure they will announce pretty soon. If i can swing it, I will be the first one to sign up and make a reservation for one of these suckers!

I should mention, I bought Tesla stocks at IPO... At the time, i simply thought it was a worthwhile gamble to invest in. Needless to say, They are exceeding all my expectations... And for kicks, I bought more after I found out about the Model 3 was in development a year ago, Im so glad I did. Im planning to buy more before the new roadster will be announced.

No bias here at all. 1 trick pony is probably the best description I've ever heard. Unreliable, overpriced, can't take a corner, annoying electronic bs everywhere, hideous huge flatscreen in the middle of the dash, no musical engine sound, I'm still trying to "get" why people like this thing. And I'm not even getting into the shortcomings of electrics.

As for whoever said and now it's tunable, I fail to see how swapping in a set of noisy gears to increase acceleration slightly, decrease range and top end is a "tune". Adding bigger motors, better batteries, maybe actually adding a second set of gears so the 60-120 is impressive to would be a start.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Bmw doubles

Hey, the M5 is a family sedan. Then again a sedan is a sedan is a sedan. Tesla kills in the 1/4 mile too. On the track it's not the worst out there, but is definitely not crushing on that level. Here's the tesla getting killed

Exactly.

But I do have to say this is the first Tesla video that I saw where the car noise was nice.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Would you mind listing few "average family sedans" capable of 13.5 sec. 1/4 mile?

In that price range? Ctsv, m5, m3, c63, e63, s6, shall I continue? Oh and in most cases you save enough money to buy enough gas for the lifetime of ownership of the vehicle and still have money in your pocket, take a corner well, and not get stranded on the side of the road looking for an electrical socket.

[Sedoy]

Those you listed are not "average family sedans", those are top performance sedans from luxury brands some over $100k or close. By no means are "average family sedans".

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

In that price range? Ctsv, m5, m3, c63, e63, s6, shall I continue? Oh and in most cases you save enough money to buy enough gas for the lifetime of ownership of the vehicle and still have money in your pocket, take a corner well, and not get stranded on the side of the road looking for an electrical socket.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Those you listed are not "average family sedans", those are top performance sedans from luxury brands some over $100k or close. By no means are "average family sedans".

I chose those because they are all cheaper than the testicle.

They are all cheaper than the tesla so viable comparison.
Throw in a wrx, evo? You could even but two Charger R/T scat pack cars and pay for all their gas, get a 12.6 quarter, and take a corner. I can keep heaping on the embarrassment.

[Sedoy]

Can you read? I was wondering if there are any "average family sedans" capable of 13.5 sec. ¼ mile, I wasn't asking to list cheaper alternatives. Also, I think you lost your mind if you consider EVOs and WRXs as an "average family sedans"... not much to discuss with you at this point.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I chose those because they are all cheaper than the testicle.

They are all cheaper than the tesla so viable comparison.
Throw in a wrx, evo? You could even but two Charger R/T scat pack cars and pay for all their gas, get a 12.6 quarter, and take a corner. I can keep heaping on the embarrassment.

.