[vladberca]

BMW will update their lineup in 2017 so there are big chances to regain the 1st place.
5 series is going to be a hit again. The new X3 might be done finally in the right way. 4 series and 2 series will receive their LCI.
X5 will have a new platform.
The only let down is that 6 GT. I don't really understand this niche market.

[BimmerMat135]

Originally Posted by vladberca

BMW will update their lineup in 2017 so there are big chances to regain the 1st place.
5 series is going to be a hit again. The new X3 might be done finally in the right way. 4 series and 2 series will receive their LCI.
X5 will have a new platform.
The only let down is that 6 GT. I don't really understand this niche market.

The new 5 seem to be a step forward so let's hope the new 3 will follow the same path. But BMW N/A hate for wagon will keep me away from the brand if we don't have the G21.

[top ramen]

I'm not surprised. I own 3 bmw previously before this one. BMW sales are declining because of too many issues that these expensive car have and it's driving consumers away. Some examples are cracking radio buttons, high speed vibrations that could never be corrected, engine failures, battery issues, drivetrain malfunction, cheap plastic material, my ranting could go on and on. Also their service sucks also. If you have issues with your car you have to schedule and wait a week before they could get you in. My brother has an Audi and when he calls in for service or his car to be seen they get him in the same day with a loaner. Audi is my next car manufacture forget MB and BMW.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by tomyang

I'm not surprised. I own 3 bmw previously before this one. BMW sales are declining because of too many issues that these expensive car have and it's driving consumers away. Some examples are cracking radio buttons, high speed vibrations that could never be corrected, engine failures, battery issues, drivetrain malfunction, cheap plastic material, my ranting could go on and on. Also their service sucks also. If you have issues with your car you have to schedule and wait a week before they could get you in. My brother has an Audi and when he calls in for service or his car to be seen they get him in the same day with a loaner. Audi is my next car manufacture forget MB and BMW.

Not even sure why you are on this forum with the way you feel about BMW. I could refute every point you made, but I won't because that is your experience, not mine. My dealership is outstanding and I can usually get an appointment the next day or two - and always get a loaner. Getting an appointment the same day either means the Audi dealer is not very busy or they just get the car in to work on at some point down the road. I hope you will be happy with your Audi, but I doubt it.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by tomyang

I'm not surprised. I own 3 bmw previously before this one. BMW sales are declining because of too many issues that these expensive car have and it's driving consumers away. Some examples are cracking radio buttons, high speed vibrations that could never be corrected, engine failures, battery issues, drivetrain malfunction, cheap plastic material, my ranting could go on and on. Also their service sucks also. If you have issues with your car you have to schedule and wait a week before they could get you in. My brother has an Audi and when he calls in for service or his car to be seen they get him in the same day with a loaner. Audi is my next car manufacture forget MB and BMW.

I don't pit the BMW's mediocrity much on quality and reliability concerns much because all German makes have a reputation for being expensive to repair and being a pain in the ass to own after 40,000 miles. It's not unique to BMW.

But if I can't blame you for feeling the way you do. That's a lot of shyt to put up with!

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by tomyang

I'm not surprised. I own 3 bmw previously before this one. BMW sales are declining because of too many issues that these expensive car have and it's driving consumers away. Some examples are cracking radio buttons, high speed vibrations that could never be corrected, engine failures, battery issues, drivetrain malfunction, cheap plastic material, my ranting could go on and on. Also their service sucks also. If you have issues with your car you have to schedule and wait a week before they could get you in. My brother has an Audi and when he calls in for service or his car to be seen they get him in the same day with a loaner. Audi is my next car manufacture forget MB and BMW.

Please use the BMW Twitter account to air your grievances between your dealer and involvement with BMW NA in trying to obtain a solution.
Since there is a lot of issues aired over Twitter involving vehicle and dealer issues. They are investigated. But up to 85% of these issues are never posted again because they are false statements or the owner has not been in contact with the dealer or has "Aftermarket" products that have contributed to the issue therefore voiding the vehicle warranty.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by vladberca

BMW will update their lineup in 2017 so there are big chances to regain the 1st place.
5 series is going to be a hit again. The new X3 might be done finally in the right way. 4 series and 2 series will receive their LCI.
X5 will have a new platform.
The only let down is that 6 GT. I don't really understand this niche market.

Its quite simply that the BMW product in North America is close to the end of its cycle but also marketing trends for BMW as well as Mercedes, Audi etc indicate their single digit increases are down to the SUV models.
The latest BMW SAV the X1 is selling exceptionally. But look at sales for the X3 which is replaced next year and they are still increasing as is the X5 for this month also which is more so down to the 40eDrive becoming popular.
Mercedes have finished refreshing their line up.

BMW recently introduce a new 7er and considering only 1 model is offered n the USA it is outselling the S-Klasse (once the rest of the portfolio has been removed ) are about to introduce an all new 5er as well as a new X3 model which again will be built in North America and be an outstanding seller in North America. Following on the heels of the X3 is the new X2 a new X4 an all new X5 and X6 and then a new X7 flagship giving US customers exactly what they want more SUVs. And it will not just be BMW increasing their SUVs line to appeal to US consumers as expect expansion and replacement from BMWs competitors.

[c63er]

Looking at Scott's responses to the earnest responses in here really shows the company is tone deaf.

Boiled down here is what he is saying:

Complaint about quality and poor customer service. Response: 85% of customers are liars

Bmwusa sales are declining. Response: customers want suv so we make more suv.

Mercedes s class is better. Response: let me make up some nonsensical scenario that the 7 actually outsells the s class. Might as well go for gold and say bmw sells way more white 7 series then mb sells white s class, hence its superior.

Never a word about addressing problems. Not a single word about the core care that makes it all possible, the 3 series.

They are also missing the point that it's the enthusiasts that let a company buck any "trends" and keeps a company above the fray. Ibm in the 80s. Apple in the 2000s. Bmw in the 90s and 2000s. You dumped on your enthusiasts and now make a car geared towards China and the generic moron who thinks steering feel is a broken car. Enthusiasts are running from you. Don't be surprised when the generic moron goes somewhere else because the enthusiasts tell him to.

We've seen this before. While vw and mb were shredding up their enthusiast core bmw was skyrocketing with new enthusiasts. Now bmw joins the ranks and is has been doing the same thing. Enthusiasts are now flocking to two brands in particular. The damage has been done long term. Suvs won't save you.

But we are all liars and complainers in their eyes anyway. I don't mean that fecitiously. You get that semi asshole non enthusiast interaction from every one there at bmw. Sad.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by c63er

Looking at Scott's responses to the earnest responses in here really shows the company is tone deaf.

Boiled down here is what he is saying:

Complaint about quality and poor customer service. Response: 85% of customers are liars

Bmwusa sales are declining. Response: customers want suv so we make more suv.

Mercedes s class is better. Response: let me make up some nonsensical scenario that the 7 actually outsells the s class. Might as well go for gold and say bmw sells way more white 7 series then mb sells white s class, hence its superior.

Never a word about addressing problems. Not a single word about the core care that makes it all possible, the 3 series.

They are also missing the point that it's the enthusiasts that let a company buck any "trends" and keeps a company above the fray. Ibm in the 80s. Apple in the 2000s. Bmw in the 90s and 2000s. You dumped on your enthusiasts and now make a car geared towards China and the generic moron who thinks steering feel is a broken car. Enthusiasts are running from you. Don't be surprised when the generic moron goes somewhere else because the enthusiasts tell him to.

We've seen this before. While vw and mb were shredding up their enthusiast core bmw was skyrocketing with new enthusiasts. Now bmw joins the ranks and is has been doing the same thing. Enthusiasts are now flocking to two brands in particular. The damage has been done long term. Suvs won't save you.

But we are all liars and complainers in their eyes anyway. I don't mean that fecitiously. You get that semi asshole non enthusiast interaction from every one there at bmw. Sad.

Amen. They dumbed down their bread and butter and blew the research load on electrics. I drove 600 miles this weekend. Didn't see any x1s. Saw a 3 series hundreds of times. Guess they decided the BMW fan base is soccer moms now.

What they really need are flagship cars.
M1 supercar
X7 How many decades has there been an escalade and a GL?
X7M. Repeat. GL 63 anyone?
M7 S63 doesn't exist?

X2 is hideous. Competes with the equally hideous MB mini suv.
Plug ins? Why? I never see a "plug" unless its at a dealer and who wants one when oil is reopened by Trump, gas goes back to a buck a gallon, and my money the government robbed from me to buy some greenie's car for him through "incentives" is no longer available?

Who cares about the uber cool looking, but uber underpowered and uber expensive I8? If it had an M5 power plant it would have sold like hotcakes instead of 2 yearslater still cluttering dealer show rooms. I3 barely sold because only hypie tree hugging stoners from Cali could identify with it. Guess if you're stoned it looks cool and makes sense. Where's the raw viceral driving experience you got from a sedan that performs like a sports car?

[c63er]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Amen. They dumbed down their bread and butter and blew the research load on electrics. I drove 600 miles this weekend. Didn't see any x1s. Saw a 3 series hundreds of times. Guess they decided the BMW fan base is soccer moms now.

What they really need are flagship cars.
M1 supercar
X7 How many decades has there been an escalade and a GL?
X7M. Repeat. GL 63 anyone?
M7 S63 doesn't exist?

X2 is hideous. Competes with the equally hideous MB mini suv.
Plug ins? Why? I never see a "plug" unless its at a dealer and who wants one when oil is reopened by Trump, gas goes back to a buck a gallon, and my money the government robbed from me to buy some greenie's car for him through "incentives" is no longer available?

Who cares about the uber cool looking, but uber underpowered and uber expensive I8? If it had an M5 power plant it would have sold like hotcakes instead of 2 yearslater still cluttering dealer show rooms. I3 barely sold because only hypie tree hugging stoners from Cali could identify with it. Guess if you're stoned it looks cool and makes sense. Where's the raw viceral driving experience you got from a sedan that performs like a sports car?

We are not living in a cave. We don't need a bmw supercar. For what? They should only do it if they can outclass audi and mb. They can't right now. So no point.

We need electric cars. Again we are not living in a cave. But they should be useful and not rolling political statements. Ie electrify every car in the bmw range. Just like you can choose gasoline 4 cyl gasoline 6 cyl or diesel you should also be able to choose electric. Easier said then done of course.

Agreed the x7 is needed about 4 years ago. Bmw has a lot of catching up to do with that one but I bet then can do it.

What I was saying is the core values of bmw need to come back into the main series. A 3 series with sport package should be fun. Steering feel. Chassis feel. Engine feel. This will bring back the enthusiasts. A super car bmw will not bring back the enthusiasts.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

Did anyone read the new 5-series review in 'CAR' U.K.. Where they state the Mercedes E-class felt like a "tin can" in comparison to the 5-series on rutted roads ?

That car was probably fully loaded with leather and all of that. Get a 530 without any of that and lets talk.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by c63er

We are not living in a cave. We don't need a bmw supercar. For what? They should only do it if they can outclass audi and mb. They can't right now. So no point.

We need electric cars. Again we are not living in a cave. But they should be useful and not rolling political statements. Ie electrify every car in the bmw range. Just like you can choose gasoline 4 cyl gasoline 6 cyl or diesel you should also be able to choose electric. Easier said then done of course.

Agreed the x7 is needed about 4 years ago. Bmw has a lot of catching up to do with that one but I bet then can do it.

What I was saying is the core values of bmw need to come back into the main series. A 3 series with sport package should be fun. Steering feel. Chassis feel. Engine feel. This will bring back the enthusiasts. A super car bmw will not bring back the enthusiasts.

BMW needs a halo car to bring some passion back to the brand. BMW is trending towards becoming the German Toyota.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax

BMW needs a halo car to bring some passion back to the brand. BMW is trending towards becoming the German Toyota.

This. And why do we NEED electric cars? I honestly do not see them being any significant portion of the market place going forward. Oil is going to drop precipitously when 1/3 or the world's oil reserves are unlocked. They were locked up successfully by Obama to drive up fuel costs to get people to buy electrics and hybrids. Trump will now have the key and he has stated repeatedly he's going to unlock them. This means dollar something a gallon gas here and gas prices dropping massively worldwide. We aren't going to get the incentives on them anymore making them much more pricey too. I don't see them gaining a meaningful market share at least for the next decade. Meanwhile no halo car, no passion in the #1 car BMW makes that was sold primarily vecause of the driving passion it had vs its peers. This is loosing focus. BMW bet and lost that Hillary and worldwide liberals would win which would have kept the oil locked up, gas prices up, the narrative on climate change supported, incentives in place. Now not only did Trump win, Brexit, Italy, and other governments shortly are turning the other direction. US oil will be an economic weapon against arab nations and Russia. I don't see a slew of electrics being hot sellers in this economic environment.

[Shaw]

Originally Posted by SakhirM4

Should have named this thread "BMW Haters Air Your Hate and Bitches Here"

You stole my words!!!

[David70]

I don't see the Audi R8 helping sell the volume A3's, A4's, Q3's and Q5's. Sure the enthusiasts like it but majority of people don't care, or at least not enough to justify the cost. Even then, as an enthusiast when I consider either buying an A4 or a 3 series I am not swayed toward the A4 because they also build an R8 and as a previous Audi owner I only once saw an R8 at the dealer and pretty rare on the road.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't see the Audi R8 helping sell the volume A3's, A4's, Q3's and Q5's. Sure the enthusiasts like it but majority of people don't care, or at least not enough to justify the cost. Even then, as an enthusiast when I consider either buying an A4 or a 3 series I am not swayed toward the A4 because they also build an R8 and as a previous Audi owner I only once saw an R8 at the dealer and pretty rare on the road.

I see a few of them around here.

Doesn't really cost that much for Audi to build it I'd imagine, it uses an existing Lambo platform.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't see the Audi R8 helping sell the volume A3's, A4's, Q3's and Q5's. Sure the enthusiasts like it but majority of people don't care, or at least not enough to justify the cost. Even then, as an enthusiast when I consider either buying an A4 or a 3 series I am not swayed toward the A4 because they also build an R8 and as a previous Audi owner I only once saw an R8 at the dealer and pretty rare on the road.

I see more R8 than all BMW i cars combined. Couple different ones a week vs one i car every 6 weeks or so. About one R8 for every 2 teslas I see. I have seen zero i8 in the wild.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

I see more R8 than all BMW i cars combined. Couple different ones a week vs one i car every 6 weeks or so. About one R8 for every 2 teslas I see. I have seen zero i8 in the wild.

I see more i8's around here than I do R8's.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Originally Posted by David70

I don't see the Audi R8 helping sell the volume A3's, A4's, Q3's and Q5's. Sure the enthusiasts like it but majority of people don't care, or at least not enough to justify the cost. Even then, as an enthusiast when I consider either buying an A4 or a 3 series I am not swayed toward the A4 because they also build an R8 and as a previous Audi owner I only once saw an R8 at the dealer and pretty rare on the road.

The fact that it's around helps sell the brand 'prestige'. If gives the consumer something to work towards. That A3/A4 owner in their heads is thinking 'I'm going to own that R8 one day'.


Meanwhile, in BMW land...'I can't wait to own that BMW 330 iPerformance'.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

I see more i8's around here than I do R8's.

Where's here? I'm south Florida. Only i8 I've ever seen is on the dealership floor of each of the 6 dealers I've been to in the past 6 months. Few more in their storage area behind the dealers.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

Where's here? I'm south Florida. Only i8 I've ever seen is on the dealership floor of each of the 6 dealers I've been to in the past 6 months. Few more in their storage area behind the dealers.

DC metro area.

[Fundguy1]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

DC metro area.

That solves it. People there want to use them to pose being on board with climate change and successful. That's going to change once the swamp is drained and climate change is off the agenda but oil production is first and foremost. Probably a lot in Cali and Chicago etc too vs R8. I've seen 3 R8s at once at a 4 way intersection here. Go back 10 years it was 3 hummer 2s.