[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Lups

And lethal.



I agree, but he wasn't eating the elephant, so his motives for the kill are not to my liking. Fuck that bitch with a elephant fang.

(this post started well, and the downhill was steep.)

To be fair, the article didn't say they were hunting the elephants. They were at a Farm that caters to tourists who post on FB about viewing elephants.

Maybe they were hunting, maybe they were just walking. The fellow who died specialized in Leopard and Lion hunts. Maybe there were reports of big cats around the farm and they were scouting the area when the elephants charged?

Either way, when you live with big game and make a living off of it, the dangers are always present. Circle of life.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by NickyC

What an asshole, good riddance.

Wow, if only everyone judged you by a single event in your life.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

I'm no expert, but i believe it's illegal to just show up and hunt one of these protected species. However, the authorities who manage the preserves along with the animals on them from time to time have to remove an animal. When this happens, likely more often than most of us realize, they sell the right to kill that specific animal to someone else for revenue.

Some times more than 6 figures is the fee to "hunt" one. They of course don't hunt anything, they track and animal, identify it, then set up a place where they can shoot it. Without that fee, a ranger will just go out and shoot said animal.

I believe they even sell the right to dart an animal when relocation or aid is needed.

Follow the money. Nothing new really.

Also, if you saw someone with an elephant head as a trophy, you probably would be in awe of his car collection or home or jet or..... Cause that shit cost a lot of cash not only to buy the right to shoot but also to have mounted. Talking $20k just for the head.

I might be in awe of his car collection - tis true, but I'd still have less respect for him as a person. I suspect I am not the only one to feel this way, but if someone has something nice that I like (say a car collection), I appreciate the cars for what they are and enjoy seeing them, perhaps even getting a ride. But it doesn't mean that I attribute any more respect to that person than I would for someone who doesn't have that "thing" that I like. My respect for people is earned through who they demonstrate themselves to be through their actions. What I can observe. Who they are as a person, not for what they have. The only thing I can think of is that the "thing" they have that I like might be a bridge or way for me to want to spend some time to get to know them / their character as potentially I see it as common ground - mutually shared interests. Through which we may become friends. But that would be it I think.

Was there not an article recently about how the strategy is to leave food out for these animals to lure them off the reserve and onto private property which is where they are killed? I might be wrong, but that is what I recall. May not make it legal (I'm not sure), but I suspect it would make it more difficult to enforce since the rangers can't be all over private property.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

To be fair, the article didn't say they were hunting the elephants. They were at a Farm that caters to tourists who post on FB about viewing elephants.

Maybe they were hunting, maybe they were just walking. The fellow who died specialized in Leopard and Lion hunts. Maybe there were reports of big cats around the farm and they were scouting the area when the elephants charged?

Either way, when you live with big game and make a living off of it, the dangers are always present. Circle of life.

So you're calling the elephant a killer? Man, you're cold.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Yummy!

Best with BBQ sauce!


Crispy or Original recipe?

Ok.....Ok my friend , I see your point very clear .
Question...

But can you kill them like they are in your pics ?

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

To be fair, the article didn't say they were hunting the elephants. They were at a Farm that caters to tourists who post on FB about viewing elephants.

Maybe they were hunting, maybe they were just walking. The fellow who died specialized in Leopard and Lion hunts. Maybe there were reports of big cats around the farm and they were scouting the area when the elephants charged?

Either way, when you live with big game and make a living off of it, the dangers are always present. Circle of life.

True, they said they were hunters. Not necessarily elephant hunters. But then again, the article ALSO mentioned that this guy's webpage featured hunts of elephants...sooo....

Further, I'm somewhat struggling to believe that these mating elephants were being so quiet in their mating activities that experienced hunters (who no doubt could also recognize elephant tracks), just happened unexpectedly upon this group and did nothing to cause the charge.

Maybe this is exactly what happened...but I'm a little skeptical.

Lastly, if you are hunting big cats...do you really need a firearm capable of taking down an elephant...which this group clearly had? Admittedly this is a soft point, because it could also be justified that they simply took said firearm for general protection in the wilderness.

All questions to be asked - can't conclude that they were trying to incite this incident, but there are some reasonable doubts to overcome as well.

[Lups]

Joe I love your sig btw. I'm so damn smart it takes my breath away!

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Lups

Joe I love your sig btw. I'm so damn smart it takes my breath away!

I love it too.

I strongly believe it is the smartest thing you've ever said. Even though I haven't known you that long, I still feel quite confident standing by this assertion.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

I might be in awe of his car collection - tis true, but I'd still have less respect for him as a person. I suspect I am not the only one to feel this way, but if someone has something nice that I like (say a car collection), I appreciate the cars for what they are and enjoy seeing them, perhaps even getting a ride. But it doesn't mean that I attribute any more respect to that person than I would for someone who doesn't have that "thing" that I like. My respect for people is earned through who they demonstrate themselves to be through their actions. What I can observe. Who they are as a person, not for what they have. The only thing I can think of is that the "thing" they have that I like might be a bridge or way for me to want to spend some time to get to know them / their character as potentially I see it as common ground - mutually shared interests. Through which we may become friends. But that would be it I think.

Was there not an article recently about how the strategy is to leave food out for these animals to lure them off the reserve and onto private property which is where they are killed? I might be wrong, but that is what I recall. May not make it legal (I'm not sure), but I suspect it would make it more difficult to enforce since the rangers can't be all over private property.

No doubt and like anything in life, i'm sure there are shady outfitters who use illegal practices to lure game to a place where they aren't protected.

But what if the guy with an elephant head in his trophy room who also has an expansive collection of fine automobiles also contributes millions of dollars every year to needy children and families around the world through different, small, grass roots organizations but doesn't have a trophy room for that? Most wealthy people contribute large sums of money to charity. Probably to avoid taxes, but whatevs. Motivation seems to have little relevance on perception of other actions.

Big game hunting in Africa is HUGE business. The governments control that business. Most people hearing of this and sharing it assume this guy was a hunter who pays exorbitant amounts to hunt defenseless, protected species. And he got what he deserved! :roll eyes: This particular man actually organized those hunts for the wealthy but is only able to do so because the government allows and encourages the "hunting" of these species.

I know you're not quick to judge and see things from different perspectives. Must of these posts aren't directed at you. Your post seem to be a good one to respond to in order to raise that point. I also haven't posted in a while, maybe i lost my internet tone of voice.

I just get aggravated when people have their whole lives judged by a single "deplorable" act.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

Ok.....Ok my friend , I see your point very clear .
Question...

But can you kill them like they are in your pics ?

If i'm hungry enough. I'd rather let them grow up to provide more food, but if you gotta eat...

Originally Posted by Joekerr

True, they said they were hunters. Not necessarily elephant hunters. But then again, the article ALSO mentioned that this guy's webpage featured hunts of elephants...sooo....

Further, I'm somewhat struggling to believe that these mating elephants were being so quiet in their mating activities that experienced hunters (who no doubt could also recognize elephant tracks), just happened unexpectedly upon this group and did nothing to cause the charge.

Maybe this is exactly what happened...but I'm a little skeptical.

Lastly, if you are hunting big cats...do you really need a firearm capable of taking down an elephant...which this group clearly had? Admittedly this is a soft point, because it could also be justified that they simply took said firearm for general protection in the wilderness.

All questions to be asked - can't conclude that they were trying to incite this incident, but there are some reasonable doubts to overcome as well.

One of my employees is married to someone who was born and lived in S. Africa. About 3 hours north of Johannesburg. After talking to him, i wouldn't walk into my back yard at dawn or dusk without a HUGE firearm.

But if you are at a farm famous for elephants, scouting for anything, during mating season, you bet your ass they'd have a gun big enough to take an elephant down. More people are killed by elephants than all big cats combined. And mainly during mating season because bull elephants who are all jacked up on test with no fly honey to bang are REALLY pissed off.

There are reports of bull elephants just destroying houses, villages and crops. Not eating the crops, just destroying it like anything in their path. Blue balls hurt and elephants have big balls. Ipso facto, blue elephant balls cause extreme anger and aggression.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

I love it too.

I strongly believe it is the smartest thing you've ever said. Even though I haven't known you that long, I still feel quite confident standing by this assertion.

I once wrote an epic post about goats. The race for the title is close but you're probably right.

Good seeing you, old friend. All well? How's the wife?

[EL Jeffe 5]

This is Good News
Its one thing hunting and harvesting, but killing for fun and because you can afford
Flat out stupid and wrong.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

No doubt and like anything in life, i'm sure there are shady outfitters who use illegal practices to lure game to a place where they aren't protected.

But what if the guy with an elephant head in his trophy room who also has an expansive collection of fine automobiles also contributes millions of dollars every year to needy children and families around the world through different, small, grass roots organizations but doesn't have a trophy room for that? Most wealthy people contribute large sums of money to charity. Probably to avoid taxes, but whatevs. Motivation seems to have little relevance on perception of other actions.

Big game hunting in Africa is HUGE business. The governments control that business. Most people hearing of this and sharing it assume this guy was a hunter who pays exorbitant amounts to hunt defenseless, protected species. And he got what he deserved! :roll eyes: This particular man actually organized those hunts for the wealthy but is only able to do so because the government allows and encourages the "hunting" of these species.

I know you're not quick to judge and see things from different perspectives. Must of these posts aren't directed at you. Your post seem to be a good one to respond to in order to raise that point. I also haven't posted in a while, maybe i lost my internet tone of voice.

I just get aggravated when people have their whole lives judged by a single "deplorable" act.

Oh I understand your posts aren't directed at me, I'm just providing a counter point - a different facet from which to look at it. I believe in considering others viewpoints before forming a conclusion, when the opportunity presents itself and within reason - time is also important. Information can be power, but time is as well, so it is a balancing act.

I too get aggravated when people are quick to judge based on one event - in the scenario painted above I would have more respect for that man than normal. It is not that I lose all respect for someone who hangs an elephant head on their wall, rather that I lose some respect from the (admittedly small) baseline level that everyone starts off with. We all have our foibles, so this can be offset by other activities that I believe are worthy of respect. In the end though, others respect isn't what we ought to live for, so my respect may not even matter. But it matters to me.

Oh, and on your wealthy people / charities comment - I might respectfully disagree. Though I suppose we need to agree on who we define as wealthy. Certainly Bill Gates and the ones he's recruited seem to donate a lot (or have promised to). But in my experience (and I see the full picture since I do these peoples tax returns), I've actually seen that it appears the wealthier people get, the less they appear to donate. Generally speaking, I'm expressing this as a percentage of income, but I've also seen a number of clients who are not at all well off donate substantially more than others who I would consider to be well off in actual dollars as well.

I only see a small subset of the population mind you, so my experience may not be able to be implied / extrapolated on a statistical basis, but it was interesting to me to see this.

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

If i'm hungry enough. I'd rather let them grow up to provide more food, but if you gotta eat...


One of my employees is married to someone who was born and lived in S. Africa. About 3 hours north of Johannesburg. After talking to him, i wouldn't walk into my back yard at dawn or dusk without a HUGE firearm.

But if you are at a farm famous for elephants, scouting for anything, during mating season, you bet your ass they'd have a gun big enough to take an elephant down. More people are killed by elephants than all big cats combined. And mainly during mating season because bull elephants who are all jacked up on test with no fly honey to bang are REALLY pissed off.

There are reports of bull elephants just destroying houses, villages and crops. Not eating the crops, just destroying it like anything in their path. Blue balls hurt and elephants have big balls. Ipso facto, blue elephant balls cause extreme anger and aggression.

Fair point, I too have heard they can be dangerous and mentioned that in one of my posts. Which is why I said that point was a soft point and could be justified.

I still think my other two points raise some valid doubts though. To add to them, mainly for amusement, if the above is true, since they undoubtedly would have known the danger mating elephants pose, why would they get so close?

But again, I'm simply raising a counterpoint. More for fun than anything else, since this is OT and not a judicial court. Though sometimes it can feel like the latter.

[iamwingman]

This is a great story. Other than the poor elephant getting shot. Dirtball got what he deserved. Good riddance.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Oh I understand your posts aren't directed at me, I'm just providing a counter point - a different facet from which to look at it. I believe in considering others viewpoints before forming a conclusion, when the opportunity presents itself and within reason - time is also important. Information can be power, but time is as well, so it is a balancing act.

I too get aggravated when people are quick to judge based on one event - in the scenario painted above I would have more respect for that man than normal. It is not that I lose all respect for someone who hangs an elephant head on their wall, rather that I lose some respect from the (admittedly small) baseline level that everyone starts off with. We all have our foibles, so this can be offset by other activities that I believe are worthy of respect. In the end though, others respect isn't what we ought to live for, so my respect may not even matter. But it matters to me.

Oh, and on your wealthy people / charities comment - I might respectfully disagree. Though I suppose we need to agree on who we define as wealthy. Certainly Bill Gates and the ones he's recruited seem to donate a lot (or have promised to). But in my experience (and I see the full picture since I do these peoples tax returns), I've actually seen that it appears the wealthier people get, the less they appear to donate. Generally speaking, I'm expressing this as a percentage of income, but I've also seen a number of clients who are not at all well off donate substantially more than others who I would consider to be well off in actual dollars as well.

I only see a small subset of the population mind you, so my experience may not be able to be implied / extrapolated on a statistical basis, but it was interesting to me to see this.

I'd say 150 personal returns is a pretty small subset of population.

Maybe i just run with and associate myself with better people than you do.

Granted, that's an even smaller subset of the population. haha

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

Fair point, I too have heard they can be dangerous and mentioned that in one of my posts. Which is why I said that point was a soft point and could be justified.

I still think my other two points raise some valid doubts though. To add to them, mainly for amusement, if the above is true, since they undoubtedly would have known the danger mating elephants pose, why would they get so close?

But again, I'm simply raising a counterpoint. More for fun than anything else, since this is OT and not a judicial court. Though sometimes it can feel like the latter.

Bailiff, take him away! Set bail at $45.

To the point of getting close within the "scouting theory", i think when you live with and interact with big game on a daily basis, you gain a larger comfort zone that the rest of us. More than likely though, they gained a lot of complacency and neglected to give the animals the space they need to not feel threatened.

Fun fact, over 37,000 documented elephant attacks on humans over the last 5 years.

[Mr Tonka]

Something has to be done about these rogue elephants!

[Joekerr]

Originally Posted by Lups

I once wrote an epic post about goats. The race for the title is close but you're probably right.

Good seeing you, old friend. All well? How's the wife?

All good so far. She's feeling it, wants this baby out, but 5 weeks to go! Just praying all continues to go well. Don't know how we managed it, but this will be our second two vessel cord baby - not sure what the odds of that are two times in a row, but it's low enough for just occurring once at 1% chance.

Thus far though, everything has checked out from the stuff we can check.

How's your family?

[iamwingman]

Somebody needs to take a picture of one of these elephants posing with the dead body of this dirtball hunter, so the elephant can hang it on the wall of his elephant house.

[Lups]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

All good so far. She's feeling it, wants this baby out, but 5 weeks to go! Just praying all continues to go well. Don't know how we managed it, but this will be our second two vessel cord baby - not sure what the odds of that are two times in a row, but it's low enough for just occurring once at 1% chance.

Thus far though, everything has checked out from the stuff we can check.

How's your family?

I have spent a lot of my time in the toilet (I puked everything I ate through the 10 months every time) and I can assure you, being pregnant sucks. She is fife weeks away, and if she hasn't complained for 7 months already, count yourself lucky.

Yeah, I totally get how your wife feels like, and wow with the cords. I'll look in to the odds. Keep me posted. I am going to have one too!

My family... I took the dogs, and the boys fishing last weekend. It went so well I will rather eat shit than repeat it. Two dogs, two kids and all Kurds ended up in the lake, some while hooks were in their skin, some of them survived (the lake). We had fun and god sake I love doing shit like that but nothing went right lol.

They are all alive. So success.

[iamwingman]

And show it to his elephant friends at his elephant cocktail party.