[Mr Carrots]

walk in tell them X dealer is offering you 8-10% off and can they do better

do your homework on every incentive and option because they probably won't tell you (except for my SA who was awesome enough to tell me about AARP corporate when Passport Direct dropped theirs)

[NickyC]

Don't seem too interested in the car, drop hints that you're not sure you want to give up your current car, there are other cars you're interested in, etc. WALK AWAY.

Just make sure they have your contact information though, and wait for that call. ;D

However, I have found out lately that dealers aren't dealing like they used to. Many of my old tricks haven't worked at all in the past six months or so, I think it's certainly a seller's market right now. This is absolutely amazing to me because I've never seen cars so grossly overpriced in my life.

[KawBoy]

Originally Posted by 3rdPedalAddict

Can all or any of the above be applied to purchases that need to be ordered via an allocation that is limited (as opposed to something they already have on the lot)?

Yes. My last two were custom built.

[dreamingat30fps]

If you are buying new its way easier from a negotiating perspective since you are comparing apples to apples. I usually buy used and it's a bit harder because options vary, miles vary etc.

Like others have said research price and come up with a number you think is good. Once I come up with a number I will go to one dealer and make lowball offer below my good deal number knowing they are unlikely to take it. However it will help me gauge what a realistic number is. Usually I will have been to or contacted via phone/email at least 4+ dealers and based on their numbers I'll pit the lowest ones against each other. If not much difference I will go with whichever dealer I like better and bullshitted me less.

Also keep in mind they like to add all kinds of fees and such like dealers fees etc. I have learned not to bother fighting the fees. When i negotiate a price I make it clear the price is + tax and tag. So if I say 20k for the car go ahead and knock yourself out and charge me 5k worth of fees for all I care, you're just going to have to sell the car for 15k then. For whatever reason I've found this much easier than trying to get them to eliminate the fee, even though in the end its the same thing.

I would also not limit it to your immediate area. I drove 300 miles to pickup my Camaro when I bought it because the dealer had exactly what I wanted and was the only dealer willing to do the price I wanted.

[Alfisti]

Big issue is women, are you shopping with the wife or alone? It changes everything because in my experience they have zero patience for the game and just want what they want costs be damned.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by NickyC

However, I have found out lately that dealers aren't dealing like they used to. Many of my old tricks haven't worked at all in the past six months or so, I think it's certainly a seller's market right now. This is absolutely amazing to me because I've never seen cars so grossly overpriced in my life.

It's been like this in Toronto for atleast a decade. Even on the used market i found dealers were really, really tight, might give up $300 but that is it.

The only exception was the X3 which surprised me a bit. It's loaded to the gills, 3T engine etc, had 30,000KM (20,000 miles) and was advertised at $39K which is about $45k with taxes and fees. They agreed to CPO it, replace the tyres and let us drive away for $42K. I was pretty stressed though, two crying kids etc and said to the guy look, $42K drive away seems fair but i am not negotiating, as you can see i need to get out of here.

[F30lolz]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Big issue is women, they have zero patience for the game and just want what they want costs be damned.

You know my wife's co-worker (yeah, if you want pics ask) just purchased a new Civic 4 door but was told because of her credit score (not bad but not great) she had to put down $9K. When she told me this I was like why would you have to put money down on a Civic, especially a down payment that paid 1/2 off the car? She mentioned her score but then told the dealer that she was awarded $9K from an insurance settlement from a car accident. Big mistake, as they used that as an excuse to get her approved by saying she needed $9K down. And I believe her interest rate is in the double digits smh.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Big issue is women, are you shopping with the wife or alone? It changes everything because in my experience they have zero patience for the game and just want what they want costs be damned.

THIS. I took my wife to the lot, showed her the model we were getting and said "Honey, pick the color" Then I drove her home. Next day that color was in the driveway. *I* had been dealing with them for a week or so before calling for the color choice.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by UncleWede

THIS. I took my wife to the lot, showed her the model we were getting and said "Honey, pick the color" Then I drove her home. Next day that color was in the driveway. *I* had been dealing with them for a week or so before calling for the color choice.

I can't make new add up so buy CPO and it makes it tough as it can take a while to find what you want with the right options and by that point she just wants the car.

[Alfisti]

Another thing i have seen a couple of people mention, all in cost. As an aussie the north american habit of tacking on random fees and charges and taxes onto the costs of goods and services drives me absolutely mental. yeah, yeah different state taxes but so fucking what? It's just stupid.

So when i walk in i first say, "ok we are interested but let me make this clear, the numbers we talk are drive away, as in you hand me the keys and we drive it away, zero extras, if i see extras i will end the discussion". very polite but to the point, i say it with a smile but ensure i get acknowledgement from the dealer.

Most still fuck it up, we agree on a number then "$600 in dealer prep fee" ... i don't care what your fee is or how you work the numbers, it's not my problem, all i care about is what i pay. To BMW's credit, the sales guy got it, said no problem but he'd have to use the computer so it auto tallies the numbers to a total once he types in the gross selling price, i really appreciated that and the sale was done fast.

[Mr Carrots]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

I can't make new add up so buy CPO and it makes it tough as it can take a while to find what you want with the right options and by that point she just wants the car.

CPO for 2016s 235i's were significantly more expensive than the brand new 2017 240i I had custom built with @15% off

Same with the older CPO X1's I got for my wife vs 20% off for a brand new one.

BMW's CPO pricing seems excessive and a terrible deal at all the places I looked.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

CPO for 2016s 235i's were significantly more expensive than the brand new 2017 240i I had custom built with @15% off

Same with the older CPO X1's I got for my wife vs 20% off for a brand new one.

BMW's CPO pricing seems excessive and a terrible deal at all the places I looked.

Yeah i think it depends on location. The absolute best i could get them down to was $61K drive away on the X3 with the same options as the CPO one we bought for $42k with 30,000km on it, it made no sense to buy new in that case.

[Reborn_]

I worked at Fletcher Jones Mercedes (#1 volume merc dealer in the US) as a secretary for the internet dept in college, and I had access to the numbers for all internet-based sales (i.e. leads come in from the website). I observed the following:

Not one single sale resulted in a loss. Some sales got REAL close, but every single one was profitable.
Profit margin is most flexible when the car has been sitting on the lot, followed closely by department, salesman, or dealership quotas being at risk. Unfortunately, joe public doesn't have that information readily available, so you need to try to feel them out.

Both of these points have already been mentioned, but figured I would reinforce them.

[dreamingat30fps]

Yeah I love it when they say they cant go any lower that they are already losing money on this deal. Then they pull out some random paper showing they paid thousands more than they are selling it to you for... apparently dealers are nonprofits because every single one of them says the same shit.

[infinitekidM2C]

truecar.com, have other options in your pocket so you're confident, and keep you eyes out. Honestly if you've been following the vehicle you want for a while you'll get a sense of what a good price is.

[ASAP]

On new cars, the profit margins are lower and the market is more baselined, so the dealer cant screw you as badly. Now, if you have a used car and you are trading it in for anither used car, their profit margin / ways to screw you are absolutely limitless.

I have done the math on numerous cars that I wanted to buy from a dealer vs what they paid someone for that car, and what the dealer would pay me for my car vs what it was worth on the street. Believe it or not, but the math on 3 or 4 of those scenarios somehow came out to a net profit of ~$10k... and that is before the dealer fees. In other words, dealers look to royally fuck people... I am not even sure how a profit like that on a single transaction is even legal.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by ASAP

On new cars, the profit margins are lower and the market is more baselined, so the dealer cant screw you as badly. Now, if you have a used car and you are trading it in for anither used car, their profit margin / ways to screw you are absolutely limitless.

I have done the math on numerous cars that I wanted to buy from a dealer vs what they paid someone for that car, and what the dealer would pay me for my car vs what it was worth on the street. Believe it or not, but the math on 3 or 4 of those scenarios somehow came out to a net profit of ~$10k... and that is before the dealer fees. In other words, dealers look to royally fuck people... I am not even sure how a profit like that on a single transaction is even legal.

It's even worse on trucks and SUVs.

[Joe240]

Originally Posted by ASAP

On new cars, the profit margins are lower and the market is more baselined, so the dealer cant screw you as badly. Now, if you have a used car and you are trading it in for anither used car, their profit margin / ways to screw you are absolutely limitless.

I have done the math on numerous cars that I wanted to buy from a dealer vs what they paid someone for that car, and what the dealer would pay me for my car vs what it was worth on the street. Believe it or not, but the math on 3 or 4 of those scenarios somehow came out to a net profit of ~$10k... and that is before the dealer fees. In other words, dealers look to royally fuck people... I am not even sure how a profit like that on a single transaction is even legal.

The price you find on a trade in is not always what the dealer paid for the car. I helped my grandma buy a new trax just last week and they wanted to give her $500 for her 1999 f150 with 72k miles. Private party for the truck was around $2-3k. I told them that I wouldn't take less than $2k for the truck on trade in because I could get $2k tomorrow selling it private party or $3k in a week. They ended up giving me $2k for her truck on trade in and still sold me the brand new chevy trax for $18k ($16k out the door including her truck for trade in).

The point is, just because KBB says the car is valued at XXX trade in, doesn't mean that's what they paid. Dealers will always try to save the most money because they know that people will try to haggle for more on their trade in, and less on the car to purchase. That $10k profit margin you saw could definitely have been more along the lines of $2k if haggling was performed on both ends. Also, that $2k "profit margin" doesn't include the overhead of running the dealership.

[Never_Enough]

I do my haggling via email before I even go in there. Not looking to waste my time. If I get a deal I like, I drive in & buy the car provided it is as advertised.

Most importantly, always be willing & ready to walk away.

[ASAP]

Originally Posted by Joe240

The price you find on a trade in is not always what the dealer paid for the car. I helped my grandma buy a new trax just last week and they wanted to give her $500 for her 1999 f150 with 72k miles. Private party for the truck was around $2-3k. I told them that I wouldn't take less than $2k for the truck on trade in because I could get $2k tomorrow selling it private party or $3k in a week. They ended up giving me $2k for her truck on trade in and still sold me the brand new chevy trax for $18k ($16k out the door including her truck for trade in).

The point is, just because KBB says the car is valued at XXX trade in, doesn't mean that's what they paid. Dealers will always try to save the most money because they know that people will try to haggle for more on their trade in, and less on the car to purchase. That $10k profit margin you saw could definitely have been more along the lines of $2k if haggling was performed on both ends. Also, that $2k "profit margin" doesn't include the overhead of running the dealership.

The dealers I have been frequenting in the Miami area do not move on either the trade or sales price... kind of laughable.

Again... let me repeat my point... car private party online value - $12-$13k, dealer offered 6

Car for sale $34k... available elsewhere for 31... dealer wont budge.

Add dealer fees to that... this is sexual assault the way I see it.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by ASAP

The dealers I have been frequenting in the Miami area do not move on either the trade or sales price... kind of laughable.

Again... let me repeat my point... car private party online value - $12-$13k, dealer offered 6

Car for sale $34k... available elsewhere for 31... dealer wont budge.

Add dealer fees to that... this is sexual assault the way I see it.

I don't buy anything in Miami. Worst of the worst bottom of the barrel scum. I have family that lives down there and it's the only reason I go down there at all. One time for shits and giggles I stopped to look at a car they had advertised on this site I see online all the time with decent pricing on cars (advertised). Their website is pretty nice and probably one of the best ones I've seen.

I pull up to this place and I swear I thought I was at some kind of flea market. Music blasting all the sharks standing around. They barely had any cars there, the inside of the dealer was basically one long ass table with computers every 5ft or so and behind that another long desk where I guess all the managers sat. I asked where the cars were and he said they keep most of them in another location he would have to drive us to. This guy takes one of the cars they had for sale (which he mentioned was actually already sold) an Audi A8 and drives us to the other location. This dude isnt even slowing down for speed bumps all I could think of was the poor bastard who bought the car.

Anyways went off on rant, needless to say didn't buy anything there and just reaffirms my belief never to buy anything in Miami.

[eluded]

Costco makes it easy

If you have to bargain having the wife around can actually be an advantage. There should always be a wildcard. Always. Never be afraid to walk away.