[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by insanecoder

Ya and the Koreans got our old M division lead engineer too..

That's because... Money talks !

[Darth One]

Iono why JD Power is getting flack in this thread. They are making it clear that they're reporting Initial Quality, not "best" or anything else that would be interpreted as subjective.

And then they use hard data on reported problems per 100. If you want to look at their methodology, it's posted on their site. JD Power knows how to conduct surveys.

If you want to split hairs, I guess you could allege response bias - does a certain group tend to respond more or less? But if that were the case, then Porsche should be last...that group is the pickiest group of mofos

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Iono why JD Power is getting flack in this thread. They are making it clear that they're reporting Initial Quality, not "best" or anything else that would be interpreted as subjective.

And then they use hard data on reported problems per 100. If you want to look at their methodology, it's posted on their site. JD Power knows how to conduct surveys.

If you want to split hairs, I guess you could allege response bias - does a certain group tend to respond more or less? But if that were the case, then Porsche should be last...that group is the pickiest group of mofos

They only survey the silly people who have time to take it.

The people sitting around doing nothing is where they get most of their data.

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

They only survey the silly people who have time for that crap.

The people sitting around doing nothing's where they get most of their data.

Like me? I've filled out a survey or two.

Point taken about the length of the survey, but even if there was that type of bias, it would affect every manufacturer. So it's still a level playing field.

JD Power isn't perfect but it's probably the best we've got. In my former job I had to analyze their scores for my company (not auto). Really the biggest critique I have of them is that they kind of bury the fact that a lot of their performance gaps are not statistically significant. Also, the way I understand this particular survey, a blown engine counts just as much as a complaint about iDrive being hard to use, so that's not too great either.

But still - this data is the best I've seen. It certainly beats anecdotal input like "well, my M3 has been perfect so far"

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Like me? I've filled out a survey or two.

Point taken about the length of the survey, but even if there was that type of bias, it would affect every manufacturer. So it's still a level playing field.

JD Power isn't perfect but it's probably the best we've got. In my former job I had to analyze their scores for my company (not auto). Really the biggest critique I have of them is that they kind of bury the fact that a lot of their performance gaps are not statistically significant. Also, the way I understand this particular survey, a blown engine counts just as much as a complaint about iDrive being hard to use, so that's not too great either.

But still - this data is the best I've seen. It certainly beats anecdotal input like "well, my M3 has been perfect so far"

I understand.

If they paid me I'd gladly take time to maybe fill one out.

I don't buy a BMW because of any data JDPowers provides us.

However it's clear they're an upstanding sources to consider when buying a car.

[thasuperdude]

I'm pretty much sure no one here bought their E9x because of initial build quality. If you bought used, you totally threw caution into the wind with all the RB talk on the interwebs.

[RCtennis3811]

Originally Posted by Darth One

I'm shocked at the Koreans' performance in this study

Why shouldn't their cars rank so highly now? Fact is South Korea is a powerhouse full of highly-educated STEM workers. Heck, they get faster LTE speeds underground than most of us in America can get through Spectrum, Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, etc! But I guess what is shocking is how quickly they changed from putting out crap to world-class products that really are just darn good.

[48Laws]

Porsche is killing it.

[Germanauto]

Originally Posted by ORIGIN M.

BEST has a completely different meaning to each and every one of us.

You should maybe change your name to Asianauto !!

Loll.

I don't think there's any denying the Asian makes are more reliable and cheaper to maintain. Otherwise they've got nothing on the Germans.

[Calvin36]

Glad to see BMW isn't half bad! Actually better than some big names! Those Korean brands are kicking some butt!

[Darth One]

Originally Posted by RCtennis3811

Why shouldn't their cars rank so highly now? Fact is South Korea is a powerhouse full of highly-educated STEM workers. Heck, they get faster LTE speeds underground than most of us in America can get through Spectrum, Comcast, AT&T, Verizon, etc! But I guess what is shocking is how quickly they changed from putting out crap to world-class products that really are just darn good.

Basically, because they were total crap around a decade ago. They must have invested billions to completely retool and redesign processes in all their factories. Worst to first in such a massively equipment intensive industry is truly shocking.

I'm not with you on "world class" just yet though. This study only says they have the least defects within 90 days. More to being world class than that...

[RCtennis3811]

Originally Posted by Darth One

Basically, because they were total crap around a decade ago. They must have invested billions to completely retool and redesign processes in all their factories. Worst to first in such a massively equipment intensive industry is truly shocking.

I'm not with you on "world class" just yet though. This study only says they have the least defects within 90 days. More to being world class than that...

I was talking more about their products in general though - cars, TVs, appliances, smartphones, etc. I was shocked how high-tech Seoul was when I visited.

As for cars being world class - well, yes, they don't make Ferraris yet. But they keep doing well on JD Power's 3-year reliability report, as well as Consumer Reports these days. Their vehicles ace IIHS safety ratings, they are built well, they tend to be reliable now, they offer lots of content for the price, AND they have a better warranty than anyone else - if that's not world class for 2 mainstream brands, than I don't know what is IMHO.

http://www.jdpower.com/press-release...dability-study

[bravo261]

11th ain't so bad. I'd have figured must worse with my experience from my one 650.

i changed jobs and went to a new dealer for service, and the SA visibly reacted when he saw the service record come up on screen

[bravo261]

and Buick?? It'd surely drop if they sold more than the two cars that went to centenarians

[raysspl]

Not surprised to see Porsche make top 5

[Tribalpinoy911]

Toyota really down that far?

[530iDriver]

Show me a 10 year old Korean car that doesn't look like crap with 75K+ miles.

Not convinced!

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Tribalpinoy911

Toyota really down that far?

Overrated makers of penalty boxes and beige toaster appliances with 4 wheels.

[Dieselunlimited]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Show me a 10 year old Korean car that doesn't look like crap with 75K+ miles.

Not convinced!

Oh but the stinger GT is an exception...... lol

Their Korean effort to replicate mcb was a fail with the one stinger gt I've seen in person.

[530iDriver]

Originally Posted by Dieselunlimited

Oh but the stinger GT is an exception...... lol

Their Korean effort to replicate mcb was a fail with the one stinger gt I've seen in person.

I want to see a Stinger after several years of use and thousands of miles to see how these present day Korean starions really hold up...

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by 530iDriver

Show me a 10 year old Korean car that doesn't look like crap with 75K+ miles.

Not convinced!

You can say the same about all the German/euro cars after 10 years (if they last that long haha) 75k+ Miles 😂

Of course there’s always an exceptions but not the rule

[RedGT3RS]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

Loll.

I don't think there's any denying the Asian makes are more reliable and cheaper to maintain. Otherwise they've got nothing on the Germans.

The Lexus LC500 And the LFA has something to say....

My point being saying it’s got nothing on the Germans is not true

That being said I’d rather live in japan than Germany given the choice 😂

Last statement is completely irrelevant, I know haha