[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by TheMidnightNarwhal

Not everything has to be an old archaic V8 to sound good.

I never said it did, the fact is I love the sound of ICE's of lots of types and I think I also commented that the GT sounds better than an EV.

[jimbobiggens]

The newer cars are better in almost every respect. Better handling, acceleration, braking, ergonomics, safety, tech, etc, etc. However, I enjoy the sounds of a big 'ol v8 in the same way as I enjoy using a clutch pedal. A manual adds another dimension to the driving that paddle shifters just can't replicate. There is just something about a perfect full-throttle shift done manually that an automatic can't offer.
Don't get me wrong - my f30 is a great car and I love driving it. I just got through putting paddle shifters in my car and they are a hoot to use.

[Captain Blood]

have I mentioned that, as I was driving down Alma rd in McKinney, talking to my son about which car I would want the most (a new Ford GT), we saw (what appeared to be) an old (1960's) Ford GT. The rear end seemed to denote it as an older model, though I'm also thinking it may have been a kit car. Who drives a $3mil to $6mil car down the street like that?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by Real Dodger

have I mentioned that, as I was driving down Alma rd in McKinney, talking to my son about which car I would want the most (a new Ford GT), we saw (what appeared to be) an old (1960's) Ford GT. The rear end seemed to denote it as an older model, though I'm also thinking it may have been a kit car. Who drives a $3mil to $6mil car down the street like that?

I've seen two Sennas in the last week. Admittingly, I pass the Macca dealer, but that's still a large percentage of the total run.

But I'd bet that's a Factory Five or similar. Although I did also pass a totally raw, unrestored white Dino 246 a few weeks ago on NW Hwy, just out for a drive.

[TheMidnightNarwhal]

Originally Posted by Grumpy Old Man

I never said it did, the fact is I love the sound of ICE's of lots of types and I think I also commented that the GT sounds better than an EV.

Oh mb I thought your reply was in regards to the old V8s.

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by jimbobiggens

In my younger days the KZ1000 was the hottest thing on the planet. "Mad Max" was playing in theaters and I had to have one. Mind-blowing fast. Point a to point b in no time. It was cool for a while, racing around with my hair on fire, but it got old. That's all that bike was good for. I bought a Harley and discovered I could enjoy the journey from point a to point b. Big difference. Point is, faster, quicker numbers are not everything. The sound of the v-twin rumbling underneath you is something too....Same as the sound of a big 'ol FE with all eight barrels wide open. There's just something about that deep bellow/choppy idle that makes the ride a little more enjoyable. Rush had a hit about this very concept - "Red Barchetta".

By today's standards, the KZ1000 is a bloated slug. Current sportbikes are much lighter, faster and responsive. (I know a thing or two about Kawasakis; I had an H1 two stroke triple back in the day.)

Meanwhile, Harley is still trying to make a 45 degree V-twin that originally powered water pumps more rideable. When I've ridden one (or a Sportster based Buell), I thought it was out of gas because I hit the rev limiter and it cut the fuel about the time I expect to start hitting the power band. Something that loud ought to be a lot faster, and a new Honda Gold Wing is a much more capable touring bike if you want to go for a pleasant ride.

It's possible to make a V-Twin perform, but not with that narrow an angle. Aprilia's most recent V-Twin was 65 degrees and Ducati's was 90, but both have moved to a V-4, which allows higher revs.

I let some members of a motorcycle club ride my Yamaha R6 race bike on the street in front of their clubhouse. They were amazed at the way power begins to build at 7,000 rpm and continues as it quickly spins up to 16 grand. They had lots of fun, and I'll never forget the sight of a half dozen big guys with three patches on their backs lining up to take a turn like kids waiting for a pony ride at the park.

("Really? We can ride it? NOBODY rides MY bike!" "It's a race bike so it's been down multiple times. You have club members who own a machine shop and a body shop. Just fix it if you crash it.")

As Hunter S. Thompson said, "Some people hear Tiny Tim singing when they go under, and some others hear the song of the Sausage Creature."



http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html

[RM7]

Straight line speed. Not impressive. Can go faster with solid fuel rocket engines or EV. Not sure what the point is.

[Viffermike]

Originally Posted by rlmesq

By today's standards, the KZ1000 is a bloated slug. Current sportbikes are much lighter, faster and responsive. (I know a thing or two about Kawasakis; I had an H1 two stroke triple back in the day.)

Meanwhile, Harley is still trying to make a 45 degree V-twin that originally powered water pumps more rideable. When I've ridden one (or a Sportster based Buell), I thought it was out of gas because I hit the rev limiter and it cut the fuel about the time I expect to start hitting the power band. Something that loud ought to be a lot faster, and a new Honda Gold Wing is a much more capable touring bike if you want to go for a pleasant ride.

It's possible to make a V-Twin perform, but not with that narrow an angle. Aprilia's most recent V-Twin was 65 degrees and Ducati's was 90, but both have moved to a V-4, which allows higher revs.

I let some members of a motorcycle club ride my Yamaha R6 race bike on the street in front of their clubhouse. They were amazed at the way power begins to build at 7,000 rpm and continues as it quickly spins up to 16 grand. They had lots of fun, and I'll never forget the sight of a half dozen big guys with three patches on their backs lining up to take a turn like kids waiting for a pony ride at the park.

("Really? We can ride it? NOBODY rides MY bike!" "It's a race bike so it's been down multiple times. You have club members who own a machine shop and a body shop. Just fix it if you crash it.")

As Hunter S. Thompson said, "Some people hear Tiny Tim singing when they go under, and some others hear the song of the Sausage Creature."

Thing is, Harley engines were never, never, EVER built for racing. The only reason Buells ever used them is because of the relationship Erik Buell had with H-D, and his desire to keep them completely American.

Aprilia's and Ducati's V-twins were designed for racing -- and both dominated the circuits in which they ran. As a former owner of an Aprilia Falco, which had the company's original 60-degree Rotax-built V-twin in it (the same one used in the Mille, which was and still is its Supersport replica sportbike), I can attest to the racing pedigree and its translation to the street ...

... but it didn't sound all that good, as V-twins go. Did I care? Not really. Plenty have bought Ducs solely because of the Desmo rumble and rattle. I avoided it precisely because of that ...

... oh: and the biggest reason both Ducati and Aprilia have switched/are switching to V-4s is because of the value of both horsepower and torque -- not just one or another -- in modern motorcycle racing. Higher revs is only part of the contemporary equation. 10 years ago, V-4s weren't even considered for a variety of reasons ranging from weight and packaging to uncontrollability. Modern ECUs and by-wire control systems make them possible now in racebikes.

[Grumpy Old Man]

Originally Posted by jimbobiggens

The newer cars are better in almost every respect. Better handling, acceleration, braking, ergonomics, safety, tech, etc, etc. However, I enjoy the sounds of a big 'ol v8 in the same way as I enjoy using a clutch pedal. A manual adds another dimension to the driving that paddle shifters just can't replicate. There is just something about a perfect full-throttle shift done manually that an automatic can't offer.
Don't get me wrong - my f30 is a great car and I love driving it. I just got through putting paddle shifters in my car and they are a hoot to use.

Couldn't agree more. I love the new cars and resist the temptation to pull the trigger on an M4 or new Porsche.....and then I look at the 993 sitting in the driveway and I'm done.

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by Viffermike

Thing is, Harley engines were never, never, EVER built for racing. The only reason Buells ever used them is because of the relationship Erik Buell had with H-D, and his desire to keep them completely American.

Aprilia's and Ducati's V-twins were designed for racing -- and both dominated the circuits in which they ran. As a former owner of an Aprilia Falco, which had the company's original 60-degree Rotax-built V-twin in it (the same one used in the Mille, which was and still is its Supersport replica sportbike), I can attest to the racing pedigree and its translation to the street ...

... but it didn't sound all that good, as V-twins go. Did I care? Not really. Plenty have bought Ducs solely because of the Desmo rumble and rattle. I avoided it precisely because of that ...

... oh: and the biggest reason both Ducati and Aprilia have switched/are switching to V-4s is because of the value of both horsepower and torque -- not just one or another -- in modern motorcycle racing. Higher revs is only part of the contemporary equation. 10 years ago, V-4s weren't even considered for a variety of reasons ranging from weight and packaging to uncontrollability. Modern ECUs and by-wire control systems make them possible now in racebikes.

Aprilia hasn't used the Mille name for fifteen years. I know the Mille/RSV 1000R well, including how it feels to highside one; Aprilia gave my trackday company a half dozen as demo bikes in 2002. They renamed the bike in 2004 and dumped the twin when they started producing the RSV4 (note V4) in 2009. The Tuono got the V4 in 2012.

Honda has been running a V4 in MotoGP since 2007. Their first 4 stroke bike MotoGP bike was a V5. They've also had V4 bikes in production since the early eighties, including the RC30 and RC45, and the amazingly fun NC35.

Most of the "Desmo rumble and rattle" people associate with Ducatis is actually the dry clutch, not the valve train.

[jimbobiggens]

Originally Posted by rlmesq

http://www.latexnet.org/~csmith/sausage.html

Funny that Hunter mentions a Vincent Black Shadow. My dad had a Vincent before I was born, a Black Shadow or a Black Lightning, I don't remember which. He used to bore me with comparing his Vincent to my KZ. I was just a dumb kid, I didn't care about his "old mans bike". I know better now...

[rlmesq]

Originally Posted by jimbobiggens

Funny that Hunter mentions a Vincent Black Shadow. My dad had a Vincent before I was born, a Black Shadow or a Black Lightning, I don't remember which. He used to bore me with comparing his Vincent to my KZ. I was just a dumb kid, I didn't care about his "old mans bike". I know better now...

Although I prefer modern bikes with all of the electronic riding aids, I still really appreciate all of the great bikes of days gone by, and have ridden or owned most of them: the mid-70's Honda twins and fours, the Norton Manx and Commando, and all of the weird stuff listed in Song of the Sausage Creature.

Back in 2003, the guy who owned the original Ralph Steadman illustration wanted to sell it for $8,000. I was in the middle of moving and was heartbroken that I didn't have the cash at the moment... and even more so the last time it sold at auction for six figures. Fortunately, Steadman released a limited edition signed print a few years back.