[..Rush..]

Some of the new Porsche EVs are pretty outstanding

[davidvan05]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Because some can't afford a 40k+ EV?

5 year breakdown cost is the same as a toyota camry.

[wtwo3]

The article suggests the reason for 69% of people seeing an ICE car being their next car is due to cost. I think beyond the average price of a car, the median price of a new car would be a better indicator to support this study. Whereas the average new car price is creeping up over $45k, I suspect the median new car price is much lower with the amount of economy cars that circulate. There currently aren't any compelling $25k EVs, and so ICE will still rule until we start seeing more and cheaper EV options.

I'm totally fine with it. I have yet to drive an EV that I actually enjoy.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by davidvan05

5 year breakdown cost is the same as a toyota camry.

You're confusing consumer behavior with rational long term outlook.

[omasou]

For EV take away incentives and I think we'll see the demand crash through the floor.

Crossing my fingers that hydrogen will work out.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by wtwo3

You're confusing consumer behavior with rational long term outlook.

Exactly lol.

[StradaRedlands]

I have two like-minded friends that independently purchased eGolfs for commuting. Great cars, only limited a bit by short range. But they only drive 20 miles a day and can charge at home, so NBD. I have been looking at those as well as the MINI Cooper SE because they still seem like cars with mechanical switchgear. Buttons, knobs, and levers are what I'm all about... don't want any screens or at least as minimal as I can get. And they still seem like decently fun cars to drive and retaining a bit of the base car they come from. And I love the idea of not having to worry about valve cover gaskets or waste time at a gas station. For commuting we'll probably get one sooner rather than later to have in tandem with a family ICE car to do everything else. Only downside is that i can purchase four E90s for the price of one of their cars. In fact I bought my 330i sedan from one of the eGolf owners mentioned above!

[Chihuahua]

Interesting article, thanks for posting. I guess I'm in the minority, I fully plan on going electric for my next car a few years from now.

[Humdizzle]

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14...-over-5-years/

^ pretty interesting article in terms of cost breakdown. 40k tesla cost over 5 years is about the same as a 25k civic.

Originally Posted by StradaRedlands

I have two like-minded friends that independently purchased eGolfs for commuting. Great cars, only limited a bit by short range. But they only drive 20 miles a day and can charge at home, so NBD. I have been looking at those as well as the MINI Cooper SE because they still seem like cars with mechanical switchgear. Buttons, knobs, and levers are what I'm all about... don't want any screens or at least as minimal as I can get. And they still seem like decently fun cars to drive and retaining a bit of the base car they come from. And I love the idea of not having to worry about valve cover gaskets or waste time at a gas station. For commuting we'll probably get one sooner rather than later to have in tandem with a family ICE car to do everything else. Only downside is that i can purchase four E90s for the price of one of their cars. In fact I bought my 330i sedan from one of the eGolf owners mentioned above!

i had no idea a mini EV existed. i'll admit that thing looks pretty cool and would work for my 75 mile round trip commute. hmmm

[StradaRedlands]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14...-over-5-years/

^ pretty interesting article in terms of cost breakdown. 40k tesla cost over 5 years is about the same as a 25k civic.


i had no idea a mini EV existed. i'll admit that thing looks pretty cool and would work for my 75 mile round trip commute. hmmm

They are definitely under the radar, which I like!

Here's a pretty cool cost-calculator I like playing around with: https://afdc.energy.gov/calc/

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

https://cleantechnica.com/2019/06/14...-over-5-years/

^ pretty interesting article in terms of cost breakdown. 40k tesla cost over 5 years is about the same as a 25k civic.

The problem here is most people in this price bracket don't look at long term cost of ownership.

5 year cost of ownership determined in large part by resale value isn't really a point of consideration when you're living paycheck to paycheck.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by omasou

For EV take away incentives and I think we'll see the demand crash through the floor.

Crossing my fingers that hydrogen will work out.

Pretty sure Tesla hasn’t had the incentives for quite some time and I see more and more of them on the road. Plus you are looking at June to even take delivery of a new Model 3. I thought hydrogen was going to be the clear winner, but I believe there are technical reasons in regards to energy efficiency that have kept it from taking off and at this point I think it’s probably dead. At least for cars.

As for the original article, if it’s true no one wants an EV, why are manufacturers pushing so many new EVs? I swear practically every car commercial I see is for some EV. I’m betting on the automakers knowing more about what’s going on with the market than some dude with no skin in the game.

I think EVs are like LED light bulbs, when they came out they were garbage, they were expensive and looked like shit. Now LED bulbs seems to be the majority of bulbs available at your local Home Depot and pretty much every bulb in my house is LED. Because they got cheaper and better than incandescent bulbs. I don’t think EVs are there yet, but they have come a long way and for many use cases they are fantastic.

[wtwo3]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

As for the original article, if it’s true no one wants an EV, why are manufacturers pushing so many new EVs? I swear practically every car commercial I see is for some EV. I’m betting on the automakers knowing more about what’s going on with the market than some dude with no skin in the game.

It's not that nobody "wants" an EV. It's that many people aren't able to afford one.

As for why manufacturers are pushing so many new EVs, there's a few reasons for this. 1) obviously government regulations which are shifting, and manufacturers don't want to be caught with their pants down 2) because they're afraid of falling behind the curve. There's definitely a shifting of the landscape happening, and even though it's in the minority for the time being, if you don't begin developing options as a manufacturer now, it's very easy to be left behind in an ultra competitive landscape. It's not like you can just magically churn out an EV the second you see EVs become the majority vehicle of choice. It takes years of ramp up.

[D22M2]

Lol. Another butthurt thread

[omasou]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Pretty sure Tesla hasn’t had the incentives for quite some time and I see more and more of them on the road. Plus you are looking at June to even take delivery of a new Model 3. I thought hydrogen was going to be the clear winner, but I believe there are technical reasons in regards to energy efficiency that have kept it from taking off and at this point I think it’s probably dead. At least for cars.

As for the original article, if it’s true no one wants an EV, why are manufacturers pushing so many new EVs? I swear practically every car commercial I see is for some EV. I’m betting on the automakers knowing more about what’s going on with the market than some dude with no skin in the game.

I think EVs are like LED light bulbs, when they came out they were garbage, they were expensive and looked like shit. Now LED bulbs seems to be the majority of bulbs available at your local Home Depot and pretty much every bulb in my house is LED. Because they got cheaper and better than incandescent bulbs. I don’t think EVs are there yet, but they have come a long way and for many use cases they are fantastic.

Sorry I meant government incentives.

Manufacturers are pushing b/c governments are setting deadlines.

https://www.bmw.com/en/innovation/ho...cars-work.html

https://www.bmwblog.com/2020/03/30/b...68-horsepower/

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Plus you are looking at June to even take delivery of a new Model 3.

Just went to Tesla's site, if I want a Model 3 Performance it says I can take delivery next month. But for $60k I'd rather have a Supra.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Cos270

Because most can't afford a 40k+ EV?

There, fixed it for you

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by kyriian

There, fixed it for you

Well, yes. Most as in a majority...

This is such a bigger discussion that really can't be hashed out in a forum thread haha. For example, a large portion of those born in the mid to late 1990's are currently priced out of the housing market entirely, there goes the "just charge your car overnight at your home" argument. Then the onus is on the states and apartment complexes to install charging infrastructure. Something that cannot happen fast enough and is too costly for such a small return on investment. I could go on...

Suffice it to say, the change to EV is not necessarily the wrong change; but the timing and execution to get there is rash and ill conceived at best.

[swagon]

Current success of PHEVs & BEVs is mostly driven by huge government incentives in the form of lower taxes and/or straight up 'cash on the hood.' And Western governments are pushing their local legacy car manufacturers into BEV production because of their sustainable politics. Further, they don't want China to keep producing the vast majority of EV components (i.e., batteries), but shhh. And, lastly, the biggest secret of all is that in the long-term, BEVs are just going to be cheaper to produce than ICE cars, so there are huge financial savings to be had under the premise that they're all doing it to be more sustainable and eco-friendly.

There's a huge inequality in EV take rate across the globe and across the automotive industry. So far, they (passenger EVs) are just toys for the very wealthy part of the population.

People and companies will want BEVs a lot more once they see that the overall ownership costs are equal to or better than of their ICE counterpart. Cars are just a form of transportation for most; they couldn't care less that their new EV Ford Fiesta or Transit van does 0-60 three seconds faster or whatever.

[Cos270]

Originally Posted by swagon

Current success of PHEVs & BEVs is mostly driven by huge government incentives in the form of lower taxes and/or straight up 'cash on the hood.' And Western governments are pushing their local legacy car manufacturers into BEV production because of their sustainable politics. Further, they don't want China to keep producing the vast majority of EV components (i.e., batteries), but shhh. And, lastly, the biggest secret of all is that in the long-term, BEVs are just going to be cheaper to produce than ICE cars, so there are huge financial savings to be had under the premise that they're all doing it to be more sustainable and eco-friendly.

There's a huge inequality in EV take rate across the globe and across the automotive industry. So far, they (passenger EVs) are just toys for the very wealthy part of the population.

People and companies will want BEVs a lot more once they see that the overall ownership costs are equal to or better than of their ICE counterpart. Cars are just a form of transportation for most; they couldn't care less that their new EV Ford Fiesta or Transit van does 0-60 three seconds faster or whatever.

Ding ding ding - winner winner chicken dinner.

In regards to the statement on savings, it will be a while before companies are able to operate in the black on these first generations of BEVs. All the major OEMs are making huge (risky) investments in order to fast track everything to production NOW. It has to pay off (i.e people will be have to buy the new BEVs: hence the afore mentioned government regulation that is just around the corner) or many companies simply will not recover.

[Alfisti]

I cannot help but feel an inflection point is coming where ICE is supposed to be phased out, so manufacturers re-tool for EV, but the demand is just not there at the price point to be anywhere near break even and we are left with a bunch of unsold EV's and semi useless factories or even manufacturers needing a bail out.

[gunsmoker]

Originally Posted by davidvan05

My model 3 performance is the best daily driver. I have the acceleration of a exotic sports car, fuel efficiency of a Toyota Prius, and reliability of a toyota corolla. Why are people still buying ICE vehicles.

If it only had a 6mt and a loud exhaust tone to my liking, I'd buy one ASAP.