[minn19]

Originally Posted by NYG

Now that's some pure BS. Don't even tell me there's a worse organization than the Knicks. We're a joke.

You should post more often here - embrace our love for Max.

Yah dunno, both recently are pretty bad. At least you guys have more than just one run to a conference finals.

Honest to goodness truth, I really don’t mind Max and think he is one of the most talented drivers of our time/potentially all time depending on how long he stays in the sport. The people around him, Jos, Christian and Marko not so much. I used to really like Christian until last year he lost his mind. Was hoping he’d chill this year but nope. Quite possibly the most thin skinned/can dish out it but can’t take it group in F1 right now.

[Artemis]

Originally Posted by minn19

All these drivers and a large amount of the team principals/higher ups are all prima donnas and can’t take any criticism. I thought the NBA was the worst of them all, but it is clearly F1.

Also, I said last year there will forever be an asterisk to Max’s 21 WDC for everyone besides his hardcore fans. He knows it, Christian and Marko do to. That’s why they are so sensitive about it. They better learn how to handle it or at least get used to it because it will never go away.

Toto Wolff after the 2021 season had ended: "Everybody has a target on their backs next year [2022]", "Losing to Red Bulls so many times is a real shocker, but is not the end", "The decision was simply wrong and it's clear that this is gonna leave some scars on Lewis, myself and the team" and "And there is nothing better they could have done to motivate us."

At that time Wolff did not know yet how desastrous the 2022 season would be for Lewis, himself and his team.

[minn19]

Originally Posted by Artemis

Toto Wolff after the 2021 season had ended: "Everybody has a target on their backs next year [2022]", "Losing to Red Bulls so many times is a real shocker, but is not the end", "The decision was simply wrong and it's clear that this is gonna leave some scars on Lewis, myself and the team" and "And there is nothing better they could have done to motivate us."

At that time Wolff did not know yet how desastrous the 2022 season would be for Lewis, himself and his team.

Ok??? What point are you trying to make or what are you referencing? What would you have him say? Things obviously don’t always go to plan.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by tdott

What part of the race shouldn't have been restarted until all cars or none were allowed to un-lap themselves? FIA made it clear it was human error. Now we hear about the cheating and over spending, it leaves a sour taste in alot of people.

Anyways continue with your shitshow, the sport is a joke right now.

The longest boring shitshow on earth was HAM's 7 years of dominance in the fastest car of the decade !

People didn't watched F1 anymore . To see what ?
People fell asleep watching a Mercedes cruising to the next victory..
The Mercedes drivers forgot what real racing on the edge actually was in the fastest car of the decade !

That changed in 2021 because Red Bull built finally a competive car to fight and to beat HAM .

Thanks to MAX the now double World Champion . And what we see now is finally real racing again !
In the last 2 years of F1 . F1 is back alive and more than ever before . Thanks to MAX !

[rwheels]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The longest boring shitshow on earth was HAM's 7 years of dominance in the fastest car of the decade !

People didn't watched F1 anymore . To see what ?
People fell asleep watching a Mercedes cruising to the next victory..
The Mercedes drivers forgot what real racing on the edge actually was in the fastest car of the decade !

That changed in 2021 because Red Bull built finally a competive car to fight and to beat HAM .

Thanks to MAX the now double World Champion . And what we see now is finally real racing again !
In the last 2 years of F1 . F1 is back alive and more than ever before . Thanks to MAX !

Just a question. If Hamilton had the fastest car (not the driver), can the same be said of Max? Is it the car or the driver?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by rwheels

Just a question. If Hamilton had the fastest car (not the driver), can the same be said of Max? Is it the car or the driver?

You need everything to be a champion.

Senna needed everything, Schumacher needed everything, Lewis needed everything and Max needed everything.

The biggest difference between all of them is that the hybrid era Mercedes was literally F1 vs F2 compared to the rest of the grid. However dominant you think the RB18 is right now, it's not even close to how dominant the Merc was. Half of Red Bulls success this season is Ferrari being a dumpster fire.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Reading all this, man has F1 fallen far. Rather glad I only watched one race this year, this sport needs help.

Honestly I blame Netflix and Drive To Survive. It has brought in so many uneducated fans. Most of them took sides immediately, either Max or Lewis. Now they just argue like school girls. F1 has been mired in controversy for decades, there was always some shenanigans or scandals going on(much worse than 2021 finale). Difference being everything is now blown up by Netflix and social media. In the past it eventually blew over and F1 moved on.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by rwheels

Just a question. If Hamilton had the fastest car (not the driver), can the same be said of Max? Is it the car or the driver?

Hard to tell really, Max is so much quicker than Checo.

Ultimately Max at some point will need a teammate like Nico.

Lando would have been perfect, but he ended talks with RB and went with McLaren extension.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by rwheels

Just a question. If Hamilton had the fastest car (not the driver), can the same be said of Max? Is it the car or the driver?

That's pretty simple ,

Where is Checo in the same RB18 car ?

Still in doubt ?

When you realise MAX was just 19 when he did this .That's why MAX is now the double World Champion ...

[HeelToeShift]

Originally Posted by minn19

I used to be a huge NBA fan in the 80s. I’ve tried to get back into it but just can’t, doesn’t help the home town team is the ‘Wolves. Quite possibly the worst sports organization to date.

Thanks! Obviously I disagree, also ironically their continued sensitivity towards the subject will only keep it going. Had they moved on and ignored this it would’ve been a nothing story. But they keep bringing it back into the spotlight with their reactions.

IMO - I look at anything Ham has done as an asterisk the size of Jupiter especially knowing what happened with Timo G and spygate as well as the cheating MB did with the engine and secret tire tests.
I think it's clear to see Max is a more raw talent and now that he has had some time to hone his ability he is a league above anyone in F1.

[MontyB1]

Lots of people obviously weren't around in the early days of Hamiltons career and haven't followed it for as long. Some only appeared when Netflix started to do Drive to Survive.

To put this into perspective we all know F2 today, it was GP2 then the pre-series to F1. Lewis Hamilton was flying and in this race he showed why he became a star in F1. I'm going to spoil it now for those that love motorsport; imagine a driver spinning on lap 2, he falls pretty much to the back into 21st place and then in an equal car fights through the pack to finish in second. That's the same engine, tyres the lot only setup and skill to differentiate.

This day not only the GP2 crowd watched the race the entire F1 paddock did, there was more talk about Hamiltons fightback than the F1 race. Mechanics from across the teams were watching and cheering, everyone was mesmerised.

To then come into F1 in his first year and challenge the great amazing Fernando Alonso regard as up there with the very best was sublime at the time. Nobody expects a new driver to shine in F1 for the first time but he was leading in the McLaren after 5 or 6 races against a far more seasoned F1 driver. THAT is why many like him and see he has or had the same raw talent as Max does. Yes they both made mistakes and tried some crazy overtakes that didn't work early on but they are very much on the same page.

Give it a watch, same machinery and one hell of a drive (Yes after the mistake the caused the spin) showed the raw talent and class he had, which got him the drive F1 drive. He like Max, Schumacher, Senna can do things to a car other drivers couldn't get close to.

Short Version

Medium - Edited to add need to watch it on YouTube direct.

Full Race - Edited to add need to watch it on YouTube direct.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The longest boring shitshow on earth was HAM's 7 years of dominance in the fastest car of the decade !

I don't remember human errors handing them the WDC.
There was also no confirmed cheating during those years.

Blame those years on lack of competition. RB (and all others) had many years to catch up.

2018 - 2019 was not boring either, when Ferrari had the fastest car but couldn't deliver.

Try again.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by M3WC

F1 has been mired in controversy for decades, there was always some shenanigans or scandals going on(much worse than 2021 finale).

How was the past controversies much worse?

There was never a time where the race director decided the outcome of a WDC and the FIA admitted it was human error.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by tdott

Blame those years on lack of competition. RB (and all others) had many years to catch up.

Or was it Mercedes ridiculous headstart on developing those powerunits years before everyone else?

0.37% overspend on catering including the tax break is a travesty tho right?

[NYG]

Originally Posted by tdott

How was the past controversies much worse?

There was never a time where the race director decided the outcome of a WDC and the FIA admitted it was human error.

The hilarious part of this cope is that if there was enough time to lap all of the cars, Hamilton still would have lost.

We've had these conversations like 500x already this year.

If you disregard all the freebies from 2021, including Merc crashing out Max at Hungary, Lewis nearly killing Max in Silverstone, Max getting half points at Spa, Lewis getting away with a bunch of shady driving, etc etc, here are the facts:



Max was the champion of 2021 in an inferior car no matter how hard you cry into your pillow every night and wondering "what if." They shouldn't have even been close to even on points entering Abu Dhabi. You can't just fabricate these fantasy scenarios for one race and disregard all the others without looking silly. Skill defeated car.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Frostynorth

Reading all this, man has F1 fallen far. Rather glad I only watched one race this year, this sport needs help.

Was really hoping a year off the sport would be a good break, but salt and drama is still going strong between the teams and drivers. The UK news was always heavy biased towards the British drivers, but this is a little beyond professionalism in media. Yeah, 2021 didn't end on the best note, get over it.

After Bernie leaving the sport and new management coming in, there was a chance things would get better, but it seems not. The top teams still complain constantly over everything, and have too much power over the smaller teams, they're all so entitled. If it wasn't for the money Mercedes, Ferrari, and RedBull bring it, the sport would be better without them. At least for a few years.


Agreed with the post above, RedBull used to be a fun team in the VET/WEB days.

Haha, I don’t think it fell far from this:

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by tdott

How was the past controversies much worse?

There was never a time where the race director decided the outcome of a WDC and the FIA admitted it was human error.

I know many have not watched F1 very long and/or have studied F1 history. But this isn't the first time stewards decisions had a direct affect on the outcome of championship.

Senna/Prost rivalry was far more contentious that Lewis/Max. Senna/Prost absolutely despised each other.

Stewards awarded Prost the 89 championship post race in Suzaka. After Senna had restarted after their collision, pitted for front wing and went on to pass for the win. The stewards post race disqualified Senna for cutting the chicane, despite sitting there for an eternity getting his car restarted. For longer than any advantage by cutting the chicane. Hamilton blew through chicane in the beginning of 2021 finale, but received to no penalty.

This was a massive controversy back then. If Senna/Prost played out today it would blow Lewis/Max out of the water. Senna declared war on the FIA and its president. FIA had it out for Senna and clearly favored Prost. FIA president at the time was French and so was Prost.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by NYG

If you disregard all the freebies from 2021, including Merc crashing out Max at Hungary, Lewis nearly killing Max in Silverstone, Max getting half points at Spa, Lewis getting away with a bunch of shady driving, etc etc, here are the facts:

Was any of that confirmed to be the result of human error by the fia?

Thought so.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by tdott

Was any of that confirmed to be the result of human error by the fia?

Thought so.

Spoiler:

Max and Lewis arrived at Abu Dhabi both with 369.5 points
If Max finished Silverstone even in second place without fastest lap he would arrive at Abu Dhabi with 387.5 points

That means Max would have won the championship even if it finished under a safety car and he was in second place. (405.5 vs 394.5 points excluding FASTEST LAP)

And that's the most catering scenario for you LH44 boys, so let me know if you want me to show you just how bad Max destroyed Lewis in 2021 by including the other races. Narrowing down 2021 to the last lap of Abu Dhabi is so pathetic, it's almost sad.

It's over for Lewis - time to move on.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by M3WC

I know many have not watched F1 very long and/or have studied F1 history. But this isn't the first time stewards decisions had a direct affect on the outcome of championship.

Senna/Prost rivalry was far more contentious that Lewis/Max. Senna/Prost absolutely despised each other.

Stewards awarded Prost the 89 championship post race in Suzaka. After Senna had restarted after their collision, pitted for front wing and went on to pass for the win. The stewards post race disqualified Senna for cutting the chicane, despite sitting there for an eternity getting his car restarted. For longer than any advantage by cutting the chicane. Hamilton blew through chicane in the beginning of 2021 finale, but received to no penalty.

This was a massive controversy back then. If Senna/Prost played out today it would blow Lewis/Max out of the water. Senna declared war on the FIA and its president. FIA had it out for Senna and clearly favored Prost. FIA president at the time was French and so was Prost.

I remember that, I believe the issue was that he got out of the car and had help to restart the car. Therefore it was the right albeit a late call within the rules.

The Hamilton no penalty is not even close to the same.

Also FIA didn't confirm the resulting outcome was due to human error made by the race director.

[tdott]

Originally Posted by NYG

And that's the most catering scenario for you LH44 boys, so let me know if you want me to show you just how bad Max destroyed Lewis in 2021 by including the other races. Narrowing down 2021 to the last lap of Abu Dhabi is so pathetic, it's almost sad.

It is sad that you can't accept those outcomes but accept one that was confirmed to be due to a human error by the race director.

[NYG]

Originally Posted by tdott

It is sad that you can't accept those outcomes but accept one that was confirmed to be due to a human error by the race director.

Max gets P2 in Silverstone and doesn't get crashed by Merc in Hungary with P3: Arrives at Abu Dhabi with 402.5 points

Max would have clinched the championship at Jeddah.

Should I continue? I'm not even assuming Max finishes ahead of Lewis in either of those two races.