[malvern_man]

Originally Posted by RichF90M5C

The good thing with ceramic is if the car gets covered in crap and you don’t want to spend hours washing it, just a quick blow over with a jet wash gets most of the crap off.

If you use deionised water through your jet washer you needn't bother drying it, deionised water will dry itself and leave no horrible water spots.

[jsf721]

Call Phil at Detailers domain he will guide you.

Incredible detailer, incredible source for ideas and accurate information.

He does it all.

Originally Posted by Surf 440m

Looking at doing ceramic coating on my 2022 X5. I live in NJ so hand washing is difficult for me in the winter. Not sure what my options are for cleaning the car, especially with all the de-icing chemicals spreading on the roads so frequently. Any suggestions

[Surf 440m]

Here she is. Ceramic coating, interior coating and window treatment.

[TboneS54]

Looks great! Love that color (tanz or azur?, forget) Do you plan on maintaining it?

Some ideas:

One of the benefits of ceramic is the hydrophobicity, the contact angle for water, and the beading, so you can wash it, then dry it off with a blower so you don't put swirls into it. Even with multiple buckets and plenty of foam/soap, and the latest MF wash pads, you'll still put swirls in 9though, yes less with ceramic coating, esp when new) with hand wash or rinseless or any touching. So ceramic will allow you to blow dry the car for no-touch. There are also now quasi-ceramic sprays (sio2) that you spray down while the car is still wet, then wash it off, then blow dry. This will add more ceramic to your coating, extending its life, and you still don't have to touch it. or you can spray a quick detailer with sio2 to use as a drying aid if you must use weave towels. or a wuick detailer with sio2 with MF towel once the car is dry.

Quick detailers are sold as-is or you can make your own by diluting rinseless wash. Some suggestions (there are so many):
And these all have sio2 to fortify your coating

303 touchless sealant - if you want to dry the spray and wash to blow dry, no contact. There are others.
Wolfgang sio2 (what I have - cotton candy blue color)
Griot's speed shine w/ sio2
3D bead it up (I love P&S beadmaker, but it's polymer only no sio2, so I suggest 3d's bead it up)
Turtle wax/meguiar's/mother's sio2 based detail sprays from local auto parts store (cheap, but effective)
Car pro reload hydro2 (touchelss) or ech2o (carpro's expensive, but ech2o can be diluted for better deal)
Technician's TEC582 (should be able to dilute?)
Sonax ultra slick detailer (I really wanted to try this one, but it's expensive and wolfgang's already about the best anyway)
McKee's spray and rinse (touchless)

There are plenty of others. You can't really go wrong these days. I agree with Guss, ceramic may not be worth it depending on the person and car's use/environment, but if you do, protect the investment with proper maintenance or just go with PPF if you have the $ and can't do the maint.

[Surf 440m]

Color is Carbon black. Plan on using Gtechniq maintenance products, foam cannon and blow dry. Don’t ever want to see those swirls again

[Bimmerfun82]

I have 4 recent experiences with different approaches.

Tesla (white)- PPF on front, ceramic coating. After a year, PPF yellow in some spots. Rocker panels stained and, well, trashed. Tesla paint esp white is the worst I’ve ever seen and ceramic didn’t help much other than making it easier to clean.

Mercedes GL450 (white)- nothing. Car washed mostly. Paint was stellar and nothing wrong with it after 5 years / 50k miles.

M3 (G80- black) PPF on front and hood, no ceramic. Don’t shoot me but I used car wash. Swirls on back. Sides fine. Front flawless.

X5 (2022 - alpine white) - nothing. Car washed. No problems at all, no swirls. Sap removes easily with white vinegar.

Z4 (2022 - frozen grey II) - PPF sides, doors, full front, rear fenders. Full ceramic. Will hand wash only. $4k but definitely worth it for the satin finish.

I had several black BMWs and Mercedes in the past, and I never even considered PPF or ceramic and hand washed. They were all fine.

What this experience tells me is if I’m going to be lazy and want to save $, go with a non metallic white paint. Otherwise invest the $$ in PPF and car wash or invest even more $$ in ceramic and hand wash… the PPF protects the paint from rock chips and road debris, sap, bird droppings, salt, paint swirls. The ceramic coating makes for an easier hand wash. I would just spray the tesla, wipe down, and drive to dry. Was a very smooth finish and stayed clean longer.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah lots of great product out there! Probably my favorite "no flash" resin-based ceramic is Car Pro Lite; it's super easy to use and has pretty good durability.

That said, Turtle Wax Seal-n-Shine is a water-based coating that lasts about 90% as long and you can get for $10 for a few years worth, and is way easier to apply.

The thing is, anyone who would even remotely consider a polish in the next 3 years (for gloss or swirls) shouldn't get a multi-year coating since you'll just polish it off and water-based coatings are functionally no different and way cheaper and easier to apply.

Honestly I think the detail industry is shooting itself in the foot with $$$$ PPF and Ceramic; it's on its way to becoming the new "undercoating".

I look at paint as kind of a consumable like tires; even if you trash it, a respray is cheaper than PPF.

Respray is much riskier than PPF. You may never get a good match on metallic colors and you are at the mercy of the skill of the particular painter. PPF also makes the car much easier to wash without fear of inducing swirls. Totally agree with you on ceramic coating though.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by chris719

Respray is much riskier than PPF. You may never get a good match on metallic colors and you are at the mercy of the skill of the particular painter. PPF also makes the car much easier to wash without fear of inducing swirls. Totally agree with you on ceramic coating though.

Yeah so, IME, that hard to match thing is mostly bunk for any BMW certified body shop as they have a machine with the BMW paint codes which will be great for anything 7 years old or newer, especially if it's not a Sun state and the car has been decently maintained.

Every BMW I've owned for 15 years has had metallic paint, including Individual Moonstone, and all of them have had various panels repainted for one reason or another in multiple shops across 3 states and I've bet so called pros they couldn't find it and none ever have. Granted these were all well maintained cars 4 years old or newer.

Does anyone know anybody that's gone to a BMW certified body shop and got a bad respray match??

Seems like one of those urban legend things everyone repeats but has no 1st hand knowledge of

Or maybe something PPF sales people repeat?

That said I have a great body shop in NorCal that I go out of my way to use because I know they do high quality work, bit it'd be fine going to any BMW shop that sounds competent on a phone call.

[chris719]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Yeah so, IME, that hard to match thing is mostly bunk for any BMW certified body shop as they have a machine with the BMW paint codes which will be great for anything 7 years old or newer, especially if it's not a Sun state and the car has been decently maintained.

Every BMW I've owned for 15 years has had metallic paint, including Individual Moonstone, and all of the have had various panels repainted for one reason or another in multiple shops across 3 states and I've bet so called pros they couldn't find it and none ever have. Granted these were all well maintained cars 4 years old or newer.

Does anyone know anybody that's gone to a BMW certified body shop and got a bad respray match??

Seems like one of those urban legend things everyone repeats but had no 1st hand knowledge of

That said I have a great body shop in NorCal that I go out of my way to use because I know they do high quality work, bit it'd be fine going to any BMW shop that sounds competent on a phone call.

I've seen it happen several times over the years on various Mercs, Porsches, BMWs. My father had to have a hood repainted 3 times by the "top" shop in the area. Terrible match, dust nibs, etc. There are many threads on this forum. I just read one recently of a guy that had a BSM panel painted and the size and color of the flake didn't match at all.

Paint code and a spectrophotometer still doesn't guarantee a match. If you search the databases, you will see there are many technician entered variations. Typically it will be tinted or modified once sprayed out on a card. Blending into adjacent panels is also necessity in many cases. I am friends with someone that used to paint. You can get a good result, but it can also be difficult if you are extremely picky. Even BMW shops don't necessarily use BMW's paint system, and the OEM paint in the factory is still not the same as a shop sprays, even if they are using the same system.

Also, I'm pretty sure all OEMs paint with electrostatic turbo bells and the robots can much better control how the flake lays on the surface.

Having dealt with body shops, I would rather just have PPF and repaint as little as possible. Painting takes some skill, but any bro with a bit of training can wrap a car if the plotter has the shapes.

[TboneS54]

If you care at all about paint, you don't want a respray. It's not just color match, it's the flop of the metallic (nozzle condition/shape, painter's hand vs machine), it's the match of orange peel, not just in quantity/level, but in the tightness of the "knit" or the waviness of the peaks and valleys in the paint (it will basically never match factory). Not to mention fish eyes, runs, solvent pop, tape lines, blends that are visible to a trained eye. Most people don't care though, tbh.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by chris719

I've seen it happen at least 5 times over the years on various Mercs, Porsches, BMWs.

On relatively new, well maintained vehicles, by reputable shops?

Cause I've probably had 20 cars done back into my Audi days, I have a paint gauge & gloss meter, inspect my paint with shop lights, and have done all my own detailing & polishing,, and I've never had an issue and I'm pretty picky.

Nor has anyone, including pros, ever been able to spot the work. I ask them because I hear this claim quite a bit and they always say they'll for sure know but they never found it even a single time

Have I just been lucky?

[chris719]

Originally Posted by GrussGott

Have I just been lucky?

I think so... just search this forum. Maybe your area has a lot of really competent shops but I still think it's not always clean and simple.

I'll give you one very recent example. I had debris fall onto my car from a window I was parked under and scratch my roof and rear quarter where there was no PPF. It's $3k to repaint. The quarter extends all the way to the A pillar and must be blended with the door. Repainting the roof correctly requires sunroof, shark fin, and rear glass removal. Had I done full PPF instead of partial on the car, I'd just have to replace 2 pieces of PPF and that's it.

The guy who is doing my work is Porsche certified and does restorations and custom concours work, but even they have a couple bad reviews on Google.

[GrussGott]

Originally Posted by chris719

I think so... just search this forum. Maybe your area has a lot of really competent shops

Well I've had my cars resprayed by 5 shops in 3 states over the last 20 years with no problems. All metallic paint, including jerez black, tanz blue, individual moonstone, ruby black, etc.

I'm sure there are posts on this forum from people with issues ... But then I've never had a spun crank hub, dimpled leather, or all the other issues there are 1000s posts on.

My experience is, if a shop has done BMWs for years, the very high probability is you won't have a problem.

[RED99HT]

Originally Posted by Surf 440m

Here she is. Ceramic coating, interior coating and window treatment.

WoW! Looks amazing!

I just did my M850 last week with all Gtechniq products
CSL topped with two coats of Exo V4, 3rd vehicle I’ve used the product on. Gtechniq products are the best, you’ll be very happy with the durability.