[CarlosM4]

The Panamera Turbo Hybrid weighing less than the M5 is such a kick in the nuts for us BMW M enthusiasts.

The Panamera is on a whole different platform, far more luxury focused, its another league of car. The M5 was always a lot lighter and far more driver focused in all previous iterations. Now we have a M5 that does not come anywhere close to the Porsche's refinement (has less chassis tech, no active engine mounts, no active sway bars, not to mention the lack of several luxury features in regards to the Panamera) and weighs more than it. What a joke.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Needsdecaf

You are missing the point.

The cars are within spitting distance of measurement, weight and power. This is the comparison. Not how they are finished. Yes, the Panamera is more expensively trimmed and can be had with fancier suspension. Oh, I should say, the Turbo Hybrid comes with standard air suspension which makes the steel sprung G90 look even more bloated.

But it's not like they are in different classes. The Panamera was always billed as an S class but it only was S class in price, not in space. Having been a Porsche owner for over a decade now, I've had plenty of Panamera loaners and driven a few Turbos (no Turbo Hybrid, cannot compare) but I do own a Cayenne Hybrid so I know how their hybrid tech is calibrated and it is not a big car. In fact, I think my M3 trumps it on rear seat room. Honestly. Besides, as lovely of a platform as the Panamera is, I don't think the G90 is going to be some poor relation. I've not driven the current 5 but given the way my G80 drives, I don't think you'd drive the Panamera and the G90 back to back and say "the G90 clearly doesn't belong here".

So "makes no sense" from a market and price point perspective, but makes every bit of sense from an engineering perspective. Which, when discussing weight, is the point of the discussion. And more to the point, my post was in response to those who have said "Porsche has figured out a way to do it 1,000 lbs lighter". Uh, no, clearly they have not.

Better finish, better class of materials, and more refined platform means more weight. That has always been the case. Its why a Bentley is so damn heavy despite its size. That has been the case, and will always be.

The M5 F90 was always 100-150kg lighter than the Panamera GTS and Turbo (non hybrid versions). And one can argue that the F90 was more refined in terms of materials and platform to the G90.

Now we have a M5, that is 150kg heavier with the same powertrain configuration? How did that happen?

I am sorry, BMW M cheaped out, went with the simple solution, believing that whatever turd they put out will be gobbled up the market

Their logic is that BMW M2 and M3 already exist for enthusiasts so let's make an M5 that is essentially in philosophy a M7 (given its size and mass, although it lacks refinement for that).

[Neptune7]

The M5 was always quicker than its contemporary Panamera rivals while less dressed with luxury features and I think that was intentional on BMW’s part. It was always about the sporty dynamics and the fun to be had by for eg using real wheel drive-only on the track. I’ve tried both cars and would choose the M5 for what BMW provides; besides the Panamera just looks like a frumpy 911 with a dad bod. No one talks about a Porsche Panamera in a car of the year review, for good reason.

The M folks seem to have taken a new direction with the G90. It’s crazy to see them launch a car so much heavier than its predecessor especially right after treating the model line to a workout diet with the F90 CS.

I think if we want an idea of what the M Motorsport division is truly capable of, a car with an uncompromising experience, we’ll need to try an M5 CS or the 3.0 CSL.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Neptune7

The M5 was always quicker than its contemporary Panamera rivals while less dressed with luxury features and I think that was intentional on BMW’s part. It was always about the sporty dynamics and the fun to be had by for eg using real wheel drive-only on the track. I’ve tried both cars and would choose the M5 for what BMW provides; besides the Panamera just looks like a frumpy 911 with a dad bod. No one talks about a Porsche Panamera in a car of the year review, for good reason.

The M folks seem to have taken a new direction with the G90. It’s crazy to see them launch a car so much heavier than its predecessor especially right after treating the model line to a workout diet with the F90 CS.

I think if we want an idea of what the M Motorsport division is truly capable of, a car with an uncompromising experience, we’ll need to try an M5 CS or the 3.0 CSL.

I am fore sure surprised they had the audacity to launch the M5 with the specs they did (worse power to weight ratio than the F90 and F10), and with such a weight increment.

This car is almost as heavy as the S63 AMG. Its heavier than the Panamera Turbo Hybrid, its heavier than the Bentley Continental PHEV, its for sure an insane weight figure.

We all bought M5s other than the competitors because it was always the lighter car, more fun at the limit, the handling characteristics of an M5, are what makes it special - ever since the E34.

Now what separates an M5 from a Panamera or a an AMG V8 PHEV or for that matter even a Bentley?

Someone at BMW M was not thinking clearly

[hufington]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

I am fore sure surprised they had the audacity to launch the M5 with the specs they did (worse power to weight ratio than the F90 and F10), and with such a weight increment.

This car is almost as heavy as the S63 AMG. Its heavier than the Panamera Turbo Hybrid, its heavier than the Bentley Continental PHEV, its for sure an insane weight figure.

We all bought M5s other than the competitors because it was always the lighter car, more fun at the limit, the handling characteristics of an M5, are what makes it special - ever since the E34.

Now what separates an M5 from a Panamera or a an AMG V8 PHEV or for that matter even a Bentley?

Someone at BMW M was not thinking clearly

No one takes into consideration that the weight would be the main limiting factor when it comes to driving fast. This car definitely needs carbon ceramics and a very good set of tires to slow down from high speeds.
No matter how hard they try to compensate for the weight through suspension etc., you'd probably feel it still like you feel it when you drive the new MB S63.
I had an S63 on order but after I test drove it, I decided to get another S580 instead as the car felt fast but extremely heavy and too complicated due to the PHEV technology crammed into it.

[Greer]

As others have mentioned, most of the people complaining are not in the market for an M5. I will wait and drive the G90 M5 myself before I pass judgment.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by Greer

As others have mentioned, most of the people complaining are not in the market for an M5. I will wait and drive the G90 M5 myself before I pass judgment.

I was.
And when I saw what came out, I passed.

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by Greer

As others have mentioned, most of the people complaining are not in the market for an M5. I will wait and drive the G90 M5 myself before I pass judgment.

I had an F90 M5 Comp on lease. Turned it in. Wanted to get another BMW but did not see anything that was cool. M8 was only option and I didn't like how it looked enough to grab one.

I ended up buying a 2023 Audi R8 and leasing a 2023 Audi S8.
My S8 lease terms out in 2026, and I'll be looking for something at that point.
It's safe to say that I am someone who is "in the market" for an M5.

I was excited about the M5 going V8 hybrid, and with a Touring opton when the first rumors came about. But my expectation for the hybrid was that it would be done like an F1 car. Electric turbos only. Not an actual BEV system.
I expected the performance to be significantly better than the F90.
Hugely disappointed by what I see thus far. Fortunately, I do have plenty of time for other people to buy the car and report their impressions before I need to make a decision to order. My hopes are a lot lower than before, however.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

I had an F90 M5 Comp on lease. Turned it in. Wanted to get another BMW but did not see anything that was cool. M8 was only option and I didn't like how it looked enough to grab one.

I ended up buying a 2023 Audi R8 and leasing a 2023 Audi S8.
My S8 lease terms out in 2026, and I'll be looking for something at that point.
It's safe to say that I am someone who is "in the market" for an M5.

I was excited about the M5 going V8 hybrid, and with a Touring opton when the first rumors came about. But my expectation for the hybrid was that it would be done like an F1 car. Electric turbos only. Not an actual BEV system.
I expected the performance to be significantly better than the F90.
Hugely disappointed by what I see thus far. Fortunately, I do have plenty of time for other people to buy the car and report their impressions before I need to make a decision to order. My hopes are a lot lower than before, however.

Exact same story except I scratched the itch for an EV after my 2020 M5.

[Kstoff125]

This is an amazing thread.

Rack up this gen m5 along the same lines as the XM, I’m betting it’s a very short lived (if not the shortest) generation of the m5. I understand the tech and direction (which is not the same as agreeing &#128526 but think the power increase to weight gain just doesn’t make sense. Get another 300hp out of the drivetrain and we might have something.

I suspect the beauty of this hybrid setup is through a simple LCI we could see power output go up substantially with minimal drivetrain changes.

Either way, the value of my m5cs just went up 🤪.

[Remigijus]

In future update it will easily go 748hp (as XM Red label) or even more. And with minimal effort.

[1dopem5]

Originally Posted by Kstoff125

This is an amazing thread.

Rack up this gen m5 along the same lines as the XM, I’m betting it’s a very short lived (if not the shortest) generation of the m5. I understand the tech and direction (which is not the same as agreeing &#128526 but think the power increase to weight gain just doesn’t make sense. Get another 300hp out of the drivetrain and we might have something.

I suspect the beauty of this hybrid setup is through a simple LCI we could see power output go up substantially with minimal drivetrain changes.

Either way, the value of my m5cs just went up 🤪.

Well if you think the Value of the F90 gens , including the M5CS will go up, sorry to say you are Delusional . I own a M5cs and the prices are coming down.
Besides its the regulations, emissions around the world which is forcing to go hybrid, none of us can do anything about it.
It is what it is. Whether we like it or not.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by 1dopem5

Well if you think the Value of the F90 gens , including the M5CS will go up, sorry to say you are Delusional . I own a M5cs and the prices are coming down.
Besides its the regulations, emissions around the world which is forcing to go hybrid, none of us can do anything about it.
It is what it is. Whether we like it or not.

I also doubt the F90 M5 will have much value preservation due to what I suspect will be a market misfire with the G90.

The above text is bolded and italicized and in Comic Sans all of which further enhance its truthiness.

[Kstoff125]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I also doubt the F90 M5 will have much value preservation due to what I suspect will be a market misfire with the G90.

The above text is bolded and italicized and in Comic Sans all of which further enhance its truthiness.

Time will tell. My simple math says the new m5 weighs more than a Chevy Tahoe. My money is on the m5cs doing well in the market. The non-cs, I agree Will depreciate, just too many out there.

[shainblm]

Anyone know when you will be able to place an order in the US? My CA says it’s not available yet. Sorry if it’s somewhere else in these posts didn’t have the time to go through everything thank you.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Kstoff125

Time will tell. My simple math says the new m5 weighs more than a Chevy Tahoe. My money is on the m5cs doing well in the market. The non-cs, I agree Will depreciate, just too many out there.

I'm rooting to be wrong on this on behalf of all my fellow F90 owners. I loved mine. It was a fantastic car.

[1dopem5]

Originally Posted by shainblm

Anyone know when you will be able to place an order in the US? My CA says it’s not available yet. Sorry if it’s somewhere else in these posts didn’t have the time to go through everything thank you.

Im waitin as well. its definitely this month that the order banks are gonna open.

[crypto]

Nothing wrong with people expressing their issues with the car. Writing on a forum is kind of like screaming into a void in terms of feedback having any impact on the future of the car. People speak with their wallets. It’ll either sell like crazy or not. It might hit a whole new demographic of people and be a smash. It will be hard to tell for sure because unlike the XM.. the M5 with all other M card is just blended into the series numbers. So.. will just have to go how many sit on lots, discounts, and forum posts I guess it gauge its success?

[Savoy2001]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Last time I checked, Ireland was not Communist, but thanks for giving me the heads-up.

You’re also wrong about BMW’s biggest market …which is the EU and it dwarfs the US by 2.5x … 950,000 units Vs 395,000.

Second place goes to China, itself over 2x U.S.

… so if it’s a numbers game, BMW has to build cars to comply with regulation in its most important markets. I’m not saying that the US market is unimportant but emissions are an issue everywhere and despite Trump II, emissions are likely to become stricter even in the US.

If your vehicle is measured by the sole metric of driving dynamics then M2C wins it. I’ve driven it. It’s great. But it’s no good for the several other factors I must consider.

As I stated in an earlier post, I already drive a BMW PHEV and it’s great.

The new M5 can only improve on this.
So, I’ve ordered one.

M division sells more in the us than any other country. Or combination of countries (eu) is not a single country. China being number one market outside of M cars world wide.


They could have left M cars like the M5 alone. They don’t need to mess with these cars for being their emissions targets. I mean I have a 23 x5mc which is great and I love it but it’s a suv. LET meet repeat that for the guys in the back of the room that can’t hear well. IT’S AN SUV. And it weights 5400 ish lbs and it’s great and I love it for what it is. A sedan especially a high performance sedan that’s supposed to be ready for the race track from the factory has no business weighing as much. Nor do I want a sedan that weighs that much. Secondly. The complete slap in the face was making the car slower than last gen. As they freaking kidding? They couldn’t at least make this heavy pig faster than last gen in a straight line? At the very least? This car is under Peter
Power for its weight. It needs 800+ hp and could really have it. But no? Why? So they can milk morons into buying the comp trim next year with the proper hp? Aka xm label. Ya no thanks. That why I passed on my allocation. I was number one at the dealer.

[mjr24]

Originally Posted by 1dopem5

Alrite we all know :
ITS HEAVY, MAYBE SLOW (0-60 times), MAYBE UGLY FOR SOME, OR WHATEVER.

All I hear is complain from all of you, but looks like you geniuses(who are complain boxes) don't realize its a HYBRID, its has independent multi link suspension etc. OF COURSE its gonna be heavy, unless you have a better option to bring the weight down, i dont think you have. BMW KNOWS BETTER THAN ALL OF US.

Its so easy to write off just coz BMW claimed the 0-60 times, and none of you have driven it yet. We all know BMW under claims their numbers.
AND in reality are you doing launches everyday? I dont think so. GROW UP AND STOP WHINING.

THE REALITY IS NO MATTER HOW MUCH WE COMPLAIN , NOTHING WILL CHANGE, YOU BUY IT OR DONT BUY IT , THATS ON YOU. ATLEAST IT DOESNT HAVE A 4 CYL ENGINE LIKE MERCEDES. AND THE BOTTOM LINE IS YOU CANT PLEASE EVERYONE.
I KNOW FOR A FACT HALF THE PEOPLE WHO ARE COMPLAINING WILL OWN IT.

Says guy who made a thread to complain….

[eanto]

Originally Posted by mjr24

Says guy who made a thread to complain….

bro spitting facts

[Rossocorsa]

The XM is rated by BMW to hit 0-60 in 3.7s, and it was tested at 3.7s so there is no under-reporting of stats like in the F90 where 0-60 times were significantly faster than BMW reported. Interestingly, the XM has the same drivetrain and is only 500lb heavier than the G90 M5. Therefore, I think the G90 will actually only hit 0-60 in 3.4s.