[eanto]

i really hope they fire this designer

[subterFUSE]

Originally Posted by eanto

i really hope they fire this designer

Won't happen. I think BMW loves their new designs, unfortunately.

[Moopai]

I loved the E38, it was my first BMW to own with the M-sport package, what-a-car... One of the best looking BMWs to this date... That's when BMW was doing real design not the crap that we are seeing in the past year and half. I have to agree with the comments that are being made regarding the new 7 series and the G90. I've been driving BMW 5s, 7s & 8 for more than two decades, never looked at any other brand but today, I'm shaking my head with the direction that this company has taken.

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

The new S is classy.
Reminds me of a quote by YSL, the fashion designer- “fashions fade, style is eternal” or something to that effect. The 7 is enormous and trendy. But the S class and Audis have maintained their classic look. The 7 series doesn’t offend me like the new 5 does because the 7 has always been a large and awkward vehicle. At least since the gorgeous 740i sport in the Clive Owen short film. That was peak 7 series. Everything after has been awful.

[mitch65]

Originally Posted by subterFUSE

I grabbed a 2023 R8 and a 2023 S8 for myself last September, and I just got a 2024 A8 for my parents a month ago. They traded in a 2019 540i for that. 7 series was an instant hard NO for them and me. Mercedes S class was in contention but the price is a lot more than the A8/S8 when you compare apples to apples. Better value with Audi.

I can't figure out why Audi keeps the A8/S8 in the US market. They have to give them away to move them, The incentives are huge right now. If they offered the short wheelbase S8 here like they do in other markets it would be a much better drivers car, the extra 6 inches of rear legroom is useless for most people, the long wheelbase is for limo duty, which is why they offer so many rear seat upgrades.

Right now on the S8 they have a $10000 factory rebate Plus $3000 Costco on a purchase with 1% (0.99) financing for 60 months
Or $6000 plus $3000 Costco on a lease at 0.00072 (1.72%)
Also easy to add a big dealer discount

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by mitch65

I can't figure out why Audi keeps the A8/S8 in the US market. They have to give them away to move them, The incentives are huge right now. If they offered the short wheelbase S8 here like they do in other markets it would be a much better drivers car, the extra 6 inches of rear legroom is useless for most people, the long wheelbase is for limo duty, which is why they offer so many rear seat upgrades.

Right now on the S8 they have a $10000 factory rebate Plus $3000 Costco on a purchase with 1% (0.99) financing for 60 months
Or $6000 plus $3000 Costco on a lease at 0.00072 (1.72%)
Also easy to add a big dealer discount

It’s a good point, but they haven’t changed the car in years and the price has increased $10k every year. So I’m pretty sure a $10k discount is still making them good margin at $126k.

[subterFUSE]

I don't think you can do the 1% financing AND the $10k rebate together. It's either / or.

I know because I just got a 2024 A8 for my parents last month and had to pay cash because we took the rebate option.

When I got my S8 last year it was $13k dealer rebate. They also had the $3000 Costo rebate but I'm not a member so I couldn't get it.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by eanto

i really hope they fire this designer

So apparently BMW has moved on from the arrogant Dukec doing the design work and has replaced him with a new designer (Hooydonk) who seems more reasonable.

“I think in the future what is going to be important is our design will be cleaner,” said van Hooydonk. “We will design the grille according to the proportion of the overall vehicle, or according to the expression that we want to give it.”

https://sharpmagazine.com/2022/10/11...erview-design/

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/bm...ent-direction/

[eanto]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

So apparently BMW has moved on from the arrogant Dukec doing the design work and has replaced him with a new designer (Hooydonk) who seems more reasonable.

“I think in the future what is going to be important is our design will be cleaner,” said van Hooydonk. “We will design the grille according to the proportion of the overall vehicle, or according to the expression that we want to give it.”

https://sharpmagazine.com/2022/10/11...erview-design/

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/bm...ent-direction/

OMG REALLY??? IS THIS OFFICIAL

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

So apparently BMW has moved on from the arrogant Dukec doing the design work and has replaced him with a new designer (Hooydonk) who seems more reasonable.

“I think in the future what is going to be important is our design will be cleaner,” said van Hooydonk. “We will design the grille according to the proportion of the overall vehicle, or according to the expression that we want to give it.”

https://sharpmagazine.com/2022/10/11...erview-design/

https://www.carscoops.com/2023/05/bm...ent-direction/

van Hooydonk has been the head of design this entire time, Dukec is below him. As far as I can tell, BMW is staying the course with these two.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

van Hooydonk has been the head of design this entire time, Dukec is below him. As far as I can tell, BMW is staying the course with these two.

My understanding is Dukec was in charge of M design and responsible for the M3/4 G8x, XM, iX, and new 7 series among others. Not sure exactly what Hooydonk was doing, but is this to say he is taking over or changing course with the new generation?

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

My understanding is Dukec was in charge of M design and responsible for the M3/4 G8x, XM, iX, and new 7 series among others. Not sure exactly what Hooydonk was doing, but is this to say he is taking over or changing course with the new generation?

van Hooydonk is the head of design, Dukec is a designer below him. As I understand it, van Hooydonk has final say in designs presented by the designers.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

van Hooydonk is the head of design, Dukec is a designer below him. As I understand it, van Hooydonk has final say in designs presented by the designers.

Thanks for clarifying, I was reading the article with bias hoping they would can the existing designer.

Now I want them both fired. At least we know who is ultimately responsible.

We need to stop buying this crap and send them a message. I’m on it.

[Moopai]

Then the future of BMW is not going to be any brighter if Dukec was responsible for all these designs!

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

My understanding is Dukec was in charge of M design and responsible for the M3/4 G8x, XM, iX, and new 7 series among others. Not sure exactly what Hooydonk was doing, but is this to say he is taking over or changing course with the new generation?

[emmfive]

When actual owners start taking delivery and start giving their reviews we'll see where things stand.

When the F90 was introduced, it got lots of crap for carrying over the S63, going to a ZF transmission and for going all wheel drive. Now most folks (me included) love the F90. I bet we'll see a similar story with the G90/99.

[Leindurstit]

If it wasn't called "M5" they could have held off a good number of critiques and comparisons. As it stands, it's potentially a more practical solution answering to a niche audience (especially folks who can't retrofit full EV charging, and haven't explored hybrids due to lack of overall performance).

Would I have gotten an F90 over a G90, assuming equal availability and price? Maybe. But the G99 now looks far, far more appealing for number of needs suited with a single-car garage.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Leindurstit

If it wasn't called "M5" they could have held off a good number of critiques and comparisons. As it stands, it's potentially a more practical solution answering to a niche audience (especially folks who can't retrofit full EV charging, and haven't explored hybrids due to lack of overall performance).

Would I have gotten an F90 over a G90, assuming equal availability and price? Maybe. But the G99 now looks far, far more appealing for number of needs suited with a single-car garage.

Fair points. But how many people that can afford G99 are limited to a single car situation? That’s like a niche of a niche of a niche.

[Leindurstit]

Originally Posted by Bimmerfun82

Fair points. But how many people that can afford G99 are limited to a single car situation? That’s like a niche of a niche of a niche.

Condo-havers, especially when you can't get buy-in from anyone else in the building to spread the cost of electrifying/metering the garage even a little bit.

[Bimmerfun82]

Originally Posted by Leindurstit

Condo-havers, especially when you can't get buy-in from anyone else in the building to spread the cost of electrifying/metering the garage even a little bit.

Ah. Makes sense. I only optioned 1 spot with my condo back in the day: Ducati + e93 M3. Great combo. But seriously this makes a lot of sense if you only have 1 spot. But that said, the cost benefit of having a $130k hybrid makes no sense. Much better off having an M car at $50k less or even $20k less.

[TLK]

BBoard thrive on zinger responses, usually put downs or negative reactions. Just look at the reputation counts of people who post. By and large people respond with an online persona that is supposed to be authoritative with swagger. A lot of people post with responses designed to garner likes. The negative rants and tirades outweighs the postive comments, and often the positive is lost because it is drowned out or people stop wanting to post in such a hostile space (think TaycanForum and anything to do with the refresh, especially the minor changes to the front bumper).

And the fact is that most buyers of cars don’t look at online forums, like this one or those of other brands like Porsche. They don’t care what you say about car X or it’s styling. All those authoritative world views from posters about “the typical BMW buyer” or the “the person the G90/G99 will appeal to”, or who “prefers a 5 to 3 or 4” is actually nonsense, because noone posting here is in contact with those people and their voices or poll votes aren’t heard. And those other people are the majority of potential and real owners.

[Bimmerfun82]

This is an interesting development - finally BMW is owning up to the scale of this brake failure issue and also pointing out softening demand. Has the tide begun to turn?

"The premium auto company now expects a slight decrease in worldwide deliveries from last year, having previously expected a slight increase."

https://www.wsj.com/business/telecom...googlenewsfeed

[x622]

Originally Posted by TLK

BBoard thrive on zinger responses, usually put downs or negative reactions. Just look at the reputation counts of people who post. By and large people respond with an online persona that is supposed to be authoritative with swagger. A lot of people post with responses designed to garner likes. The negative rants and tirades outweighs the postive comments, and often the positive is lost because it is drowned out or people stop wanting to post in such a hostile space (think TaycanForum and anything to do with the refresh, especially the minor changes to the front bumper).

And the fact is that most buyers of cars don’t look at online forums, like this one or those of other brands like Porsche. They don’t care what you say about car X or it’s styling. All those authoritative world views from posters about “the typical BMW buyer” or the “the person the G90/G99 will appeal to”, or who “prefers a 5 to 3 or 4” is actually nonsense, because noone posting here is in contact with those people and their voices or poll votes aren’t heard. And those other people are the majority of potential and real owners.

Actually if you look at how Mercedes reversed course on the C63 AMG, how BMW discontinued the XM, Urus Hybrid allocations aren't moving etc. I'd wager to say that your analysis of the forum's vitriolic posters misses the mark. The mass majority of people shit on these cars just like the M5 and you can see the results for yourself. You're correct that most buyers aren't on forums, but I think this is a pretty good place to get a sample of what buyers are interested in.


Here's hoping BMW reverses course and most M5 owners are like the majority on this forum, and the trend of buyers rejecting these heavy hybrid cars continues.

[hufington]

I started owning BMWs with a E30 M3 and owned many amongst other German and American cats.

My issue with the BMW's current design language is that they have taken a direction that most enthusiasts criticized (the larger and larger grilles) and they chose not to listen to anyone and kept on unlike when they messed up the E65 7 series (Bangle Butt) and quickly corrected their mistake.

Probably, the current management believes that whatever they build will sell as they know best. We have seen what happened with the "ultimate M car" XM despite all the heavy marketing.

After the increasing popularity of EVs and emergence of many new car brands, BMW still did not realize that good design and solid build quality will set them apart in the long run. They need to listen more and experiment less in terms of design.