[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by RM7

I had the LS3 in the G5 camaro SS. Engine was very good. Chassis was good, but not great. In manual trim it was 3850, but autos and convertibles tacked on about 200lb ea. The earlier chassis was the Zeta if I remember, same as G8/SS and 2nd generation CTS-V. The G6 Camaro with the LT1, manual and 1LE handling just kicked it into outer space tho, a couple hundred lbs lighter with an outstanding chassis and almost unchanged engine. Torque for days at any rpm. It really comes alive above 4K, but you can be at 1100rpm with 300lb/ft and cruise along with no lag/load on the engine. I do really well at AutoX and its just a blast to drive in all the right ways.

I want this car. But instead we get electric cars

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

You could swap to a 4L80 pretty easy. 6L80 swaps are out there too.

I've looked to manual swap it, but the transfercase is unique to the H3 from my research so it was a non-starter. If it stays automatic to get rid of the 4L60 I'm not much interested. And its not "bolt-in" to swap to either the 6L80 or 4L80.

I have done a tune on the 4L60 and it improved slightly making it a bit more tolerable. The tune was $350 including a tune for the ECU as well. The problem with the H3's now is chassis parts availability. Mine is rusted pretty bad on the frame (I've repaired it twice), so I'm not going to put any more significant money in it.

[XutvJet]

Don't bother with the headaches and compromises of a LS swap car unless you have the technical know-how. Consider a C5 or C6 Vette and make it your own with better seats, steering wheel, wheels/tires, mild suspension stuff, and a few well chosen engine mods.

I'd love me a 2001-2004 C5 Z06, 1987-1993 Mustang 5.0 notchback, a 2000s Chevy single cab 2WD, or a later 1980s Camaro with an LS swap (super easy) and retro mods. Pushrod V8s can be hella fun, they're super easy to work on, easy to make power, and certain ones can be made to rev out if that's you're thing. I loved my modded 1994 Z28 I had back in college in the late 1990s.

[UPSROD]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

How about "Pushrod"

GM LS engines have pushrods!

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I've looked to manual swap it, but the transfercase is unique to the H3 from my research so it was a non-starter. If it stays automatic to get rid of the 4L60 I'm not much interested. And its not "bolt-in" to swap to either the 6L80 or 4L80.

I have done a tune on the 4L60 and it improved slightly making it a bit more tolerable. The tune was $350 including a tune for the ECU as well. The problem with the H3's now is chassis parts availability. Mine is rusted pretty bad on the frame (I've repaired it twice), so I'm not going to put any more significant money in it.

Time for a Tahoe or Suburban.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Don't bother with the headaches and compromises of a LS swap car unless you have the technical know-how. Consider a C5 or C6 Vette and make it your own with better seats, steering wheel, wheels/tires, mild suspension stuff, and a few well chosen engine mods.

I'd love me a 2001-2004 C5 Z06, 1987-1993 Mustang 5.0 notchback, a 2000s Chevy single cab 2WD, or a later 1980s Camaro with an LS swap (super easy) and retro mods. Pushrod V8s can be hella fun, they're super easy to work on, easy to make power, and certain ones can be made to rev out if that's you're thing. I loved my modded 1994 Z28 I had back in college in the late 1990s.

The C6 is by far the best value you can get in a sports car. 400hp, modernish features, analogish driving, roof comes off, fast, great on gas, safe....and you can get a really really nice one for under 30k.

[AmuroRay]

But I need a backseat and hopefully 30MPG highway. How well do GM automatics do in HPDE and such?

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

But I need a backseat and hopefully 30MPG highway. How well do GM automatics do in HPDE and such?

If it has a 6L80, bulletproof. The 4 doors don't get the same fuel economy as the vettes do, which will do low 30s highway. An LS1 F body will probably flirt with high 20s with a manual and the right rear end.

4L60 it depends on what it's in. They don't break at stock power levels in a c5 or C6 or C4, but they also put them in trucks and bigger cars and they take extra wear in those heavier vehicles. Good news is they can be built to hold a crapload of power. That said, they're 4 speeds so not fun in an HPDE anyways.

[inverse121]

Low 30s isn’t likely to happen, I suspect you could probably pull this off with a manual transmission Camaro if you are really good, probably easier with a 4th gen Camaro.

If you need a usable backseat, you might as well have 4 doors and then the Cadillac is the logical choice. The Camaro backseat isn’t great, but more usable than our 2 series.

There is really nothing LS powered for those of us that require AWD.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by inverse121

Low 30s isn’t likely to happen, I suspect you could probably pull this off with a manual transmission Camaro if you are really good, probably easier with a 4th gen Camaro.

If you need a usable backseat, you might as well have 4 doors and then the Cadillac is the logical choice. The Camaro backseat isn’t great, but more usable than our 2 series.

There is really nothing LS powered for those of us that require AWD.

Untrue. Trailblazer SS. I have one, it's AWD, fast, spacious, tows, and it's really, really bad on gas, lol. Mine gets 11-12 city lol. It flirts with 20mpg highway ... If you go like 60. Downhill. Drafting behind a semi, lol. I don't think I'll ever sell it, I just love it too much lol, it does EVERYTHING, is a ton of fun to drive, and honestly, unless someone made me an awesome offer, I couldn't get enough out of it to replace it with something else that does everything it does for the same money.

All the Yukon, Tahoes, and Escalades offered 4x4 or AWD and an LS motor. The later L92 6.2L is very very similar to the LS3, with a different cam, intake, but similar power. Delete the AFM and it's bulletproof and can make boatloads of power. Truthfully, an Escalade from that generation would be the next best thing tonmy TBSS. Especially an EXT.

That said, I agree, I would definitely have a first gen CTSV over a Camaro, fuel economy be damned. Realistically, there's nothing out there that has 4+ seats and doors, the same speed, reliability, and 30+ mpg except maybe an Elantra N, but you're trading off performance there.

I will eventually find the right LS2 black on black CTSV1 for myself. I'm in no rush, gotta sell one of the Corvettes and clear out some garage space. Or I get an E39 M5, either way.

[RM7]

First gen CTS-V was really poopy. It didnt get good until the 2nd gen supercharged ~550hp. Then the interior and performance were up to par. GM even did the wagon version, for an awesome sleeper, plus plenty of mods available for the shared GM/Holden products.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

First gen CTS-V was really poopy. It didnt get good until the 2nd gen supercharged ~550hp. Then the interior and performance were up to par. GM even did the wagon version, for an awesome sleeper, plus plenty of mods available for the shared GM/Holden products.

I mean, the 2nd gen is faster and nicer, but the first gen is still great. Hard to argue with a dead nuts reliable 400hp V8 manual transmission sedan. It's like an E39 M5, but faster, more reliable, and less expensive to own. No, the interior is not as high end as a full leather E39, but it's not terrible while driving it. I guess everyone massages their dashboard and doors while they're driving and so plastic is unacceptable?

I will admit, the E39 is prettier. But Caddy doesn't make pretty cars, at all. The 2ns gen CTSV isn't exactly pretty either. The 3rd gen and CT5V BW also don't exactly look great.

[Sedoy]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I mean, the 2nd gen is faster and nicer, but the first gen is still great. Hard to argue with a dead nuts reliable 400hp V8 manual transmission sedan. It's like an E39 M5, but faster, more reliable, and less expensive to own. No, the interior is not as high end as a full leather E39, but it's not terrible while driving it. I guess everyone massages their dashboard and doors while they're driving and so plastic is unacceptable?

I will admit, the E39 is prettier. But Caddy doesn't make pretty cars, at all. The 2ns gen CTSV isn't exactly pretty either. The 3rd gen and CT5V BW also don't exactly look great.

Are you crazy? The 2nd gen CTS-V wagons one of the best looking vagons out there, those things sell for tons of $$$ right now.

[inverse121]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Untrue. Trailblazer SS. I have one, it's AWD, fast, spacious, tows, and it's really, really bad on gas, lol. Mine gets 11-12 city lol. It flirts with 20mpg highway ... If you go like 60. Downhill. Drafting behind a semi, lol. I don't think I'll ever sell it, I just love it too much lol, it does EVERYTHING, is a ton of fun to drive, and honestly, unless someone made me an awesome offer, I couldn't get enough out of it to replace it with something else that does everything it does for the same money.

All the Yukon, Tahoes, and Escalades offered 4x4 or AWD and an LS motor. The later L92 6.2L is very very similar to the LS3, with a different cam, intake, but similar power. Delete the AFM and it's bulletproof and can make boatloads of power. Truthfully, an Escalade from that generation would be the next best thing tonmy TBSS. Especially an EXT.

You are correct. TBSS is a cool vehicle, but hasn’t been made in a while.

I guess those SUVs do provide AWD. My Chevy half ton short bed 5.3L pickup is essentially AWD and LS powered by those standards.

I should have been more clear and said there is no AWD LS powered coupe or sedan.

That Cadillac wagon is cool. I’ve never seen one of those.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Sedoy

Are you crazy? The 2nd gen CTS-V wagons one of the best looking vagons out there, those things sell for tons of $$$ right now.

I know they sell for a ton of money. But that doesn't make them pretty. The front is their best angle and it's meh. The back looks like a base v6 wagon, and is very ugly.

A guy at my daycare has one. I'd rather a Magnum SRT8 even if it's slower. Or an E55 wagon.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

Time for a Tahoe or Suburban.

Nah, I need a pickup truck; I've had one in the fleet for nearly 40 years, I'd probably go with a Maverick if I had to. And I have a Bronco for SUV duty.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I know they sell for a ton of money. But that doesn't make them pretty. The front is their best angle and it's meh. The back looks like a base v6 wagon, and is very ugly.

A guy at my daycare has one. I'd rather a Magnum SRT8 even if it's slower. Or an E55 wagon.

IMO, GM didnt really get serious till the 2nd gen CTS-V. That’s when the corvette, camaro, SS, CTS/ATS-V started knocking it out of the park as far as driving dynamics.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

IMO, GM didnt really get serious till the 2nd gen CTS-V. That’s when the corvette, camaro, SS, CTS/ATS-V started knocking it out of the park as far as driving dynamics.

Nah, that's just when you started paying attention, lol. Corvette has knocked in out of the part since 1984. The second gen CTS is based on sigma, but it's on sigma 2 which was GM's attempt.tonmakenitncheaper by parts sharing with Zeta, the platform developed in Australia long ago that underpinned 5G Camaro, SS, GTO, etc.

Don't get me wrong, the C6 Corvette was probably the most dominant Corvette of all time, but it was still dominant since the C4 came out (the one that was so dominant it got kicked out of racing by butthurt competitors and had to run in a single make series).

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by AmuroRay

They literally are - I was a fool for disregarding them for so long. Now I need a 4 door with a backseat and a manual. Are the SSs still around?

Honestly if you don't like the now dead SS, check out a blackwing.

Blackwing has grown on me quite a bit. I'd buy it over a M5.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Nah, that's just when you started paying attention, lol. Corvette has knocked in out of the part since 1984. The second gen CTS is based on sigma, but it's on sigma 2 which was GM's attempt.tonmakenitncheaper by parts sharing with Zeta, the platform developed in Australia long ago that underpinned 5G Camaro, SS, GTO, etc.

Don't get me wrong, the C6 Corvette was probably the most dominant Corvette of all time, but it was still dominant since the C4 came out (the one that was so dominant it got kicked out of racing by butthurt competitors and had to run in a single make series).

No, even if the corvette was doing that (and you are obviously a fan-boy), GM was a one-trick pony back then. The corvette wasn't killing it that entire time, it would throw the rear out easily and lots of other issues. My buddy inherited a C4 and sold it a little while after, but it wasn't some kind of monumental engineering triumph, there were shitty ones, like the 200hp v8 my buddy inherited, not all home-runs by any measure.

It wasn't until around Zeta time that they really started making driving dynamics a priority and offering multiple cars with those dynamics, rather than just the corvette.

The gen2 CTS-V stomps all over the first gen, which again, just wasn't really a serious effort and it came at a time when GM was seriously expanding their performance vehicles, far beyond what Ford and Chrysler were doing.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

No, even if the corvette was doing that (and you are obviously a fan-boy), GM was a one-trick pony back then. The corvette wasn't killing it that entire time, it would throw the rear out easily and lots of other issues. My buddy inherited a C4 and sold it a little while after, but it wasn't some kind of monumental engineering triumph, there were shitty ones, like the 200hp v8 my buddy inherited, not all home-runs by any measure.

It wasn't until around Zeta time that they really started making driving dynamics a priority and offering multiple cars with those dynamics, rather than just the corvette.

The gen2 CTS-V stomps all over the first gen, which again, just wasn't really a serious effort and it came at a time when GM was seriously expanding their performance vehicles, far beyond what Ford and Chrysler were doing.

Yeah there's a lot of C4s that are slow by modern standards. It had 200hp when it came out... In 1984. That was quite a bit of power then, and it got the TPI motor the next year with even more power. The early 80s were not a high point for power output, even the much more expensive Porsche 928 was making 230hp then. BMW M6 was making similar power, as was 911. Stuff like a GTI was under 100hp.

Power issues aside, the C4 had an insanely good chassis and suspension for its time. It was one of the best handling cars of its day, despite coming with a large powerful engine. It may not have modern level power, but taken in its time, it was a beast of a machine.

That said, I would agree, when they started to put Camaro on Zeta, they transformed Camaro into more of a sports car. This was a HUGELY unsuccessful move, and sales were really only bolstered by styling, and the fact that it had been MIA for years since the F Body cars. The 6th gen on Alpha went even further the wrong way and resulted in poor sales and the literal death of the car. GM totallyissed the mark on what Camaro buyers wanted, trying to build M3s. Camaro buyers wanted an inexpensive tire shredding V8 that a young person could buy, afford, and drive, and they wanted it to feel like a muscle car.

Yes the CTSV2 stomps all over the CTSV1. It has 150hp more. It's also a much more modern interior than the short model year difference would lead you to believe. It doesn't do much for me, but I can understand why people like it.

I wouldn't consider myself a Corvette fanboy. Just someone who is aware of the performance they offer for the money. They can't be beat in performance value.

[MaxVO2]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I wouldn't consider myself a Corvette fanboy. Just someone who is aware of the performance they offer for the money. They can't be beat in performance value.

****No question, very fair appraisal. The Corvette, even back to the old pre-TPI days was a heck of a car for the price. Very low HP and Torque numbers with 35+ years of innovation since then compared to *now* - but back in their day they had some remarkable tech at a price point more affordable to many vs a Porsche, BMW, Benz, etc..

The newest Corvettes are very very nice and have a lot to offer performance/value wise. They handle well, are fast, and their motors and transmissions are somewhat overbuilt with significant reserve for modifications, and to help promote longevity.

I don't own one but have worked on several over the years as a hobbyist and they have a very big fan base and aftermarket presence. They are much less expensive to work on than other vehicles with similar performance numbers, and parts are still available for them through the aftermarket for cars dating back to the 1960's.

Neighbor has a newish ZO6 and it is an absolute beast of a car. The interior is not BMW or Benz quality, etc.. but the car shows well, and it handles like a slot car. I think GM knocked it out of the park with that car.