[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Economic illiteracy.

Haha.. long term vs short-term

Won't be fun in the beginning but if BMW builds more plants stateside and you can get your M5 built and delivered in Greer in 20 days I call that a win.

What will it cost nobody knows . Will congress be able to deliver on the tax write off on loan interest,, lowering of taxes and using the money earned to pay off the debt ...tbd...dont know until they try.

But at the end of the day people choose what they will or won't buy and can afford. Will folks here get jobs because of it yes, will folks in other places lose jobs because of it yes. Will other countries counter yes and will they negotiate a better deal absolutely. However once the car is built here the 25% goes away. There is also a section about parts so likely some loopholes.

If the E63, RS6 and M5 all go up 25% in cost what options do you have ? CT5 blackwing is the only American car in the class and that is on its way out without a known replacement.

It is what it is and I totally get both sides. Will slow selling or not profitable cars die absolutely. Will folks be priced out of some cars today yes.

I think this will also result in better cars in the long term.

We won't know the effect until years from now.

If that's means im economic illiterate so be it....

Long term vs short

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Bluex

Moot huh? Do you currently have an M5 at the Bremerhaven port waiting to come over? Have you configured your car, negotiated a deal and have waited excitedly for this M5 to arrive in just a few weeks time only to be struck with the possibility of a 25% tax being added to the price? (Because despite rumors there is no word yet on whether BMW will absorb anything yet for existing orders on this round of tariff affected vehicles….hopefully they will)

Are you in the position where you may have to not accept the vehicle because you can’t afford to or won’t pay a 25% tax?

If you answer yes, great on you. You clearly must have such deep pockets where this is all trivial “let them eat cake” bullshit.

But if the answer is no you don’t and aren’t in the position that many of us are in right now, it’s damn easy for you to say that you don’t have any problems with it and it will all come out in the wash.

I’ve waited awhile for this car, was excited for a delivery in a few weeks, was paying cash for the car and now I may just have to cancel the whole deal and keep that $140k instead of spending it.

But hey, my man, glad it’s all good to you.

I dont but a 18months from now when my XM lease is up I will be in the same boat. If the M5 is at that time outside of my affordability I will decide what is best for my budget.

Last I recall Bmw was honoring prices for cars in the delivery process. Do you already have a purchase order? The m2/2 series got protected and will only see..well as of last week got a 4% increase for cars with production starting after may 1st.

See below

https://www.bmwblog.com/2025/03/21/b...increase-2025/

At the end of the day what can we do? But to wait for everything to settle, then adjust once we get all the facts.

Do i want to pay 25% more for something hell no. But could bmw in 12 months be able to shift production around and perhaps make some of the pricer sedans states to avoid this who knows. Will bmw absorb some of this who knows, will BMW be like hey we will make some options standard to make the increase easier to swallow and tweak some stuff on the car to make it a better product ...again who knows

Again long term vs short-term...short term this blows ...long term it will come with positives

This 100% a push to put American jobs and manufacturing first.

It's definitely not perfect but its going to bring people to the table.

[WWM3]

[QUOTE=DocWeatherington;31964283]Haha.. long term vs short-term

Won't be fun in the beginning but if BMW builds more plants stateside and you can get your M5 built and delivered in Greer in 20 days I call that a win.

What will it cost nobody knows . Will congress be able to deliver on the tax write off on loan interest,, lowering of taxes and using the money earned to pay off the debt ...tbd...dont know until they try.

But at the end of the day people choose what they will or won't buy and can afford. Will folks here get jobs because of it yes, will folks in other places lose jobs because of it yes. Will other countries counter yes and will they negotiate a better deal absolutely. However once the car is built here the 25% goes away. There is also a section about parts so likely some loopholes.

If the E63, RS6 and M5 all go up 25% in cost what options do you have ? CT5 blackwing is the only American car in the class and that is on its way out without a known replacement.

It is what it is and I totally get both sides. Will slow selling or not profitable cars die absolutely. Will folks be priced out of some cars today yes.

I think this will also result in better cars in the long term.

We won't know the effect until years from now.

If that's means im economic illiterate so be

I apologize for calling you illiterate. I’ll delete my post. Just a little grumpy this morning, I guess.

I don’t see any upside here. Empirical data has shown that protectionalist policies like this drive up costs and lower the standards of living over the long-term. Those are not good outcomes.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by WWM3

This will raise the price of new and used cars - both foreign and domestic. The cost to repair your vehicles will also increase. Insurance costs will also increase. This is the long-term outcome for this isolationist/nationalist policy. All for the sake of a few thousand manufacturing jobs, apparently. The investment publication Barron's wrote last night that this is the worst possible outcome for the auto industry and the global economic consequences could be severe.

Everything been going up for the last decade.

This will hit some cars or brands worse than others.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...united-states/

I would read the EO as there are loopholes

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Everything been going up for the last decade.

This will hit some cars or brands worse than others.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/president...united-states/

I would read the EO as there are loopholes

Yes, they have. Do you want further price acceleration ? You want worse economic and market outcomes ?

I’ve read analysis of the EO from multiple business and investment publications. I’ve got a firm grip on it, and my comments stand.

[DocWeatherington]

[QUOTE=WWM3;31964331]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Haha.. long term vs short-term

Won't be fun in the beginning but if BMW builds more plants stateside and you can get your M5 built and delivered in Greer in 20 days I call that a win.

What will it cost nobody knows . Will congress be able to deliver on the tax write off on loan interest,, lowering of taxes and using the money earned to pay off the debt ...tbd...dont know until they try.

But at the end of the day people choose what they will or won't buy and can afford. Will folks here get jobs because of it yes, will folks in other places lose jobs because of it yes. Will other countries counter yes and will they negotiate a better deal absolutely. However once the car is built here the 25% goes away. There is also a section about parts so likely some loopholes.

If the E63, RS6 and M5 all go up 25% in cost what options do you have ? CT5 blackwing is the only American car in the class and that is on its way out without a known replacement.

It is what it is and I totally get both sides. Will slow selling or not profitable cars die absolutely. Will folks be priced out of some cars today yes.

I think this will also result in better cars in the long term.

We won't know the effect until years from now.

If that's means im economic illiterate so be

I apologize for calling you illiterate. I’ll delete my post. Just a little grumpy this morning, I guess.

I don’t see any upside here. Empirical data has shown that protectionalist policies like this drive up costs and lower the standards of living over the long-term. Those are [...]

Your good ... i wasn't offended by it.

Right now ... no upsides long term upsides...do I think this will stay at 25% probably not... in the end this will bring folks to the table and let's see what happens in the next 30 days.

I think these % will drop and companies will be like hey let's find a middle ground and we will build plants stateside.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by WWM3

Yes, they have. Do you want further price acceleration ? You want worse economic and market outcomes ?

I’ve read analysis of the EO from multiple business and investment publications. I’ve got a firm grip on it, and my comments stand.

I don't

But some say this is bad some folks will say this good. It's all perspective

It's going to take months to see the net results...

Some companies will be no issues the others will say the sky is falling.

If you look at what Americans buy they tend to be domestic... outside of that the big sellers... from Honda/Toyota/Kia are all made here...

Now if what you like to buy isn't your SOL until they find a solution..see the link below

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States

[evanevery]

Here we go!

My M5 Touring is currently waiting for ship assignment in Bremmerhaven.

Nice to know we will be putting a 25% tax on all imported vehicles made by the largest exporter of American made vehicles.

...and no, this won't help develop the US Auto industry any more than the original steel/aluminum tariffs did for the steel industry 8 years ago. All the US Steel companies did was to raise the price on DOMESTIC steel and have a little free-for-all on their profit taking! Why invest in the long term when tariffs give you an immediate short term profit taking opportunity?

[WWM3]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I don't

But some say this is bad some folks will say this good. It's all perspective

It's going to take months to see the net results...

Some companies will be no issues the others will say the sky is falling.

If you look at what Americans buy they tend to be domestic... outside of that the big sellers... from Honda/Toyota/Kia are all made here...

Now if what you like to buy isn't your SOL until they find a solution..see the link below

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List..._United_States

I’ve yet to find one positive reaction to this news. Perhaps you could share if you’ve read something. Like I said, the resident analyst of the car industry at Barron’s wrote a lengthy piece on this and I’d recommend you read it.

[supershaft]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

hat was also stated he is working to get the loan interest paid on US made cars a tax write off.

Net net while this will suck now. LONG TERM it is better as more things will be made here with that more jobs. Manufacturers will have to level the costs across the lineups and produce the volume sellers here. Bmw is the largest exporter by volume of US made cars. So, I dont see a major price increase across the SUV lineup.

I have no issues with this. EU charges a 10% tariff on our autos and we used to charge them 2.5..so there's is 4 times higher currently. Yeah there is the chicken tax on light duty pickup trucks but that's an North American product.

With that whatever they counter with how many US made vechiles are sold overseas? So its moot.

https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/spart...-Woodruff.html

Won't be fun in the beginning but if BMW builds more plants stateside and you can get your M5 built and delivered in Greer in 20 days I call that a win.

I don't care if I get the car the next day, "american" quality is the reason I will never buy a bmw SUV ever again. Once that happens you can kiss the allure of german made/german engineered cars away.

until every single part of the car is made in the US it will be a NET LOSS for the average buyer in the USA. ZF isn't going to make a factory here along with hundreds of other supply chain partners. this is the most brain dead economic policy in decades there's no sugar coating how bad this is going to be.

[Cannondale900]

Don't forget about the AI factor here. It's hard to predict which jobs will stick longer term and which jobs will get automated away.

There is a lot in flux right now as a civilization and some of the variables have such a wide range of long term outcomes that it is hard to predict with great certainty.

I know I didn't add anything to the conversation but this AI factor has been rolling around in the cavern that sits on my neck.

On the tax side, extending the TCJA tax cuts is going to cost quite a bit and they are playing some games with how to score the total cost. I could end up eating my words here but I don't see them throwing in a tax deduction for loan interest on the purchase of automobiles because it adds more cost to an already expensive set of tax cut extensions that they need every vote to pass. Unless every state in the union is going to benefit from onshoring the auto industry, the deficit hawks aren't going to bite. On the flip side, the auto industry is a significant contributor to the GDP and the GDP will need a positive jolt ASAP throughout all of this economic upheaval.

Selfishly, I just want my M5T, which is scheduled to wrap production on 8 Apr, to be sold to me at MSRP.........good luck to everyone else

[iifymbro]

Originally Posted by supershaft

I don't care if I get the car the next day, "american" quality is the reason I will never buy a bmw SUV ever again. Once that happens you can kiss the allure of german made/german engineered cars away.

until every single part of the car is made in the US it will be a NET LOSS for the average buyer in the USA. ZF isn't going to make a factory here along with hundreds of other supply chain partners. this is the most brain dead economic policy in decades there's no sugar coating how bad this is going to be.

Yeah that's the rub in all this, American car manufacturing doesn't have the best record lol.

My G87 is extremely well built from the Mexico plant, sucks that BMW invested a couple billion in that plant which is producing high quality cars and now mango is demanding they basically invent anti-grav tech and fly the factory across the border within the next month.

To be fair I think BMW could build a similar plant in the U.S and have it succeed, would expensive though and I'm not hearing much about how this admin is going to sweeten the deal for these car makers to invest here to avoid the tariffs.

Anecdotally my family has been driving BMW suvs for a long time now and we've never had a issue with one. Always the m-lite versions if that means anything, maybe they get more TLC in the factory.

EDIT:

ZF is indeed expanding stateside and building I'm pretty sure the gearbox that the G90 and all similar cars use, feb 6th news release:

https://press.zf.com/press/en/releas...ase_65730.html

[rtmeikle]

I have my thoughts on the tariffs too, but won't get into political conversations here.

But one plus for those of us buying the new M5 now- it's possible that BMW raises prices in the near future, which may help limit the ridiculous depreciation that we're all expecting on this car (and any other luxury car).

It might be the opposite of what's happened with Tesla. As Tesla drops prices on new models, used models end up depreciating faster. If BMW has to raise prices on new models to help offset the tariffs (btw, they're NOT going to pass along the entire 25%, I predict they'll absorb some, decontent some, and pass along the rest in pricing), owners of pre-tariff builds may benefit with less depreciation.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by soulsea

All US made vehicles are unaffected by todays announcement.

Not true.
Parts originating outside US are also affected.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

hat was also stated he is working to get the loan interest paid on US made cars a tax write off.

Net net while this will suck now. LONG TERM it is better as more things will be made here with that more jobs. Manufacturers will have to level the costs across the lineups and produce the volume sellers here. Bmw is the largest exporter by volume of US made cars. So, I dont see a major price increase across the SUV lineup.

I have no issues with this. EU charges a 10% tariff on our autos and we used to charge them 2.5..so there's is 4 times higher currently. Yeah there is the chicken tax on light duty pickup trucks but that's an North American product.

With that whatever they counter with how many US made vechiles are sold overseas? So its moot.

https://www.bmwgroup-werke.com/spart...-Woodruff.html

Few people in Europe want to buy American autos as:

• Our fuel is heavily taxed so big engines don’t sell.
• Many euro cities have small streets (as the cities are very old) and driving massive trucks down them won’t work.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by supershaft

I don't care if I get the car the next day, "american" quality is the reason I will never buy a bmw SUV ever again. Once that happens you can kiss the allure of german made/german engineered cars away.

until every single part of the car is made in the US it will be a NET LOSS for the average buyer in the USA. ZF isn't going to make a factory here along with hundreds of other supply chain partners. this is the most brain dead economic policy in decades there's no sugar coating how bad this is going to be.

It is what it is...buy used or buy what you want ... not much we can do beyond ride the wave. Wait until congress overrides, the next admin or most likely in a few months folks come to the table and a better deal is made.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

Few people in Europe want to buy American autos as:

Our fuel is heavily taxed so big engines don’t sell.
Many euro cities have small streets (as the cities are very old) and driving massive trucks down them won’t work.

Agree fully...to tariff affected US made car is moot as very few US made cars go over seas to countries this will effect.

There are probably less than two hands of domestic models that go overseas direct from the US. With less being volume sellers.

Bmw is the largest exporter of US made vechiles.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The logic is fair though. If you tax my cars, I tax yours back.

Global trade is a balance.
We buy your phones.
You buy our cars.
The whole thing is a disaster… it’s one thing to take on Canada or Mexico… the EU economy is massive and a trade war between the US & EU will be felt heavily on both sides… by Consumers.

[EUPremier]

[QUOTE=WWM3;31964331]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Haha.. long term vs short-term

Won't be fun in the beginning but if BMW builds more plants stateside and you can get your M5 built and delivered in Greer in 20 days I call that a win.

What will it cost nobody knows . Will congress be able to deliver on the tax write off on loan interest,, lowering of taxes and using the money earned to pay off the debt ...tbd...dont know until they try.

But at the end of the day people choose what they will or won't buy and can afford. Will folks here get jobs because of it yes, will folks in other places lose jobs because of it yes. Will other countries counter yes and will they negotiate a better deal absolutely. However once the car is built here the 25% goes away. There is also a section about parts so likely some loopholes.

If the E63, RS6 and M5 all go up 25% in cost what options do you have ? CT5 blackwing is the only American car in the class and that is on its way out without a known replacement.

It is what it is and I totally get both sides. Will slow selling or not profitable cars die absolutely. Will folks be priced out of some cars today yes.

I think this will also result in better cars in the long term.

We won't know the effect until years from now.

If that's means im economic illiterate so be

I apologize for calling you illiterate. I’ll delete my post. Just a little grumpy this morning, I guess.

I don’t see any upside here. Empirical data has shown that protectionalist policies like this drive up costs and lower the standards of living over the long-term. Those are [...]

Very good point …I understand that US protectionist polices caused the great depression of 1929… and those tariffs were much smaller.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Cannondale900

Don't forget about the AI factor here. It's hard to predict which jobs will stick longer term and which jobs will get automated away.

There is a lot in flux right now as a civilization and some of the variables have such a wide range of long term outcomes that it is hard to predict with great certainty.

I know I didn't add anything to the conversation but this AI factor has been rolling around in the cavern that sits on my neck.

On the tax side, extending the TCJA tax cuts is going to cost quite a bit and they are playing some games with how to score the total cost. I could end up eating my words here but I don't see them throwing in a tax deduction for loan interest on the purchase of automobiles because it adds more cost to an already expensive set of tax cut extensions that they need every vote to pass. Unless every state in the union is going to benefit from onshoring the auto industry, the deficit hawks aren't going to bite. On the flip side, the auto industry is a significant contributor to the GDP and the GDP will need a positive jolt ASAP throughout all of this economic upheaval.

Selfishly, I just want my M5T, which is scheduled to wrap production on 8 Apr, to be sold to me at MSRP.........good luck to everyone else

No idea how they will do it..see the words that came out of his mouth. Again we cant say this admin doesn't keep promises haha...

Listen to what he said...

A1 and robots will kill a bunch of jobs in the long run anyway..but this indirectly will create hundreds of thousands of jobs in manufacturing in the near short or long term.

The question will be what will companies and unions allows. It's the similar issue that shipping ports are facing..they could quickly automate ports

[EUPremier]

Those of you who are looking at your G90s in the driveway can rejoice.
Your depreciation may have just disappeared!
A pyrrhic victory, perhaps, if the economy around you crashes!

[EUPremier]

I think this is a well-meaning but ill-fated move by Trump overall.
I get the ‘build more in US’ thing. At a macro level, it sounds great.
But, the World trades with the US. And those two little words are important.
It’s a tale of swings and roundabouts.
Some nations, for whatever reason, are better at certain things. Have you ever met a German person? They are very different to American people. Germans are very precise and Trump’s tariffs are not going to change America’s work culture.
I’d rather drink beer with an American but have a German build a precision device. And, I’d rather use American software.

In the application of tariffs, Trump has a very blunt device to achieve his aims.
Unfortunately, he has destroyed a confidence the World has had in the US that’s now gone forever.
Germany, as example, is releasing a Trillon Euro to build up its arms… if you think they’ll use that to buy American fighter jets… forget it. The US military industrial complex won’t sell a bullet to the EU going forward.
America also sells a lot of services to the EU… what if the EU goes after that? How many American here are involved in or work for American software firms who sell lots in the EU, many, I’m betting.
An unholy mess all of this.