[immiketoo]

My S5 was a dead stick compared to the M, and I think steering feel is always important when I'm driving. That's the part that get's me excited to drive it harder or faster. I do believe Footie's statment about steering feel is accurate in the sense that it is wasted on the majority of drivers out there, and my GF loves the Audi because it's "Easier" to drive. Smoother, if you will. In the end, its all about perspective. People who have been in full on race cars have a different perspective about how a car feels compared to people who have only driven 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis. To them, the S5 feels toight as a tiger whil the racer thinks its loose.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by footie

I have driven many a racing car with sublime steering feel and for a road car I personally think feeling is something that is over-rated, so while great feel might be something wanted at a trackday when you return to a bumpy back road all you really want and need is accurate steering that don't kick back. Personally the S5's steering was OK, sure it lack feel but it was very accurate with no slack around died centre, but that being said I do reckon the M3 is a bit better.

Well I'm not sure if the article was all about feel. i think it regarded general steering attributes like weight, load-up, directness and feel.

It's been over a year since I've driven an S5, so I can't make a valid opinion on the two anymore.

[JayKay335i]

Its pretty. But it needs to drop some #s and gain some HP.

[footie]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

My S5 was a dead stick compared to the M, and I think steering feel is always important when I'm driving. That's the part that get's me excited to drive it harder or faster. I do believe Footie's statment about steering feel is accurate in the sense that it is wasted on the majority of drivers out there, and my GF loves the Audi because it's "Easier" to drive. Smoother, if you will. In the end, its all about perspective. People who have been in full on race cars have a different perspective about how a car feels compared to people who have only driven 1995 Mercury Grand Marquis. To them, the S5 feels toight as a tiger whil the racer thinks its loose.

No doubt you know that the pivot point of the S5 is a good foot or more in front of where it is in the M3, but that said it does mean that it's an easier car to feel where it's limits are compared to the M3, especially on the road, though I don't think anyone should ever be that know that point. Another thing about steering feel, it's like one of your senses, if one of them become impaired your other senses become heighten and that's how I feel when driving an Audi after a few weeks, I found that I could feel the grip limitations in other ways. But the advantage that gave was that without a over sensitive steering you could push hard on a bumpier surface without a sensory overload. Luckily the M3 also doesn't have an overly sensitive steering system, it's got more feel than the Audi but not to the point where it bucks like a mule.

Like I say, the M3 is near enough perfect in it's controls and the only thing needed in my opinion is awd.

[smmmurf]

Originally Posted by footie

Like I say, the M3 is near enough perfect in it's controls and the only thing needed in my opinion is awd.

Sorry, AWD would completely ruin this car. It would make the car significantly heavier and take away the nimble, "neutral when you want it and tail-out when you want it" handling that I bought it for.

[footie]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

Sorry, AWD would completely ruin this car. It would make the car significantly heavier and take away the nimble, "neutral when you want it and tail-out when you want it" handling that I bought it for.

Drive an R8 is tell me if it doesn't do everything you are asking of the M3, only better. If engineered from the start to include awd then I reckon any car can behave the way you want it to.

[graider]

Originally Posted by Nikkahtropolis

Apparently the editors over at Insideline say even the FWD Mazdaspeed3 has better steering than the S5.

Depends on what you're looking for in a car. Based on my preferences, an S5 would only be better in terms of interior creature comforts. I personally prefer the looks of the M3 in the real world (Audis are much more photogenic, so I don't care for online pic comparos) and I prefer the drive. I still think the S5 has a much better interior though, and it was more comfy.

agree on both counts actually. i think the m3 line grow on your as time fly, but the s5 line will get you bored to death. at least that is what happen to me right now. I do like the audi interior especially the recaro seat. they have bmw beat in the seating deparment.

a5, not feeling the look as I'm too spoil looking at the s5 already. s5 is way nicer looking IMO. black S5 is the only way to go if you really have to get this car.

[footie]

BTW, not long before the official release of the RS5. If the info I heard is correct you can expect a potent machine capable of 0-200km/h in the mid to high fourteens, so a bit quicker than the M3 though not by that much.

[immiketoo]

I agree about the R8 doing what the M3 does and I'd love to see a similar AWD system on the M3. As long as the weight stays the same anyway. That car would rip!

[footie]

Originally Posted by immiketoo

I agree about the R8 doing what the M3 does and I'd love to see a similar AWD system on the M3. As long as the weight stays the same anyway. That car would rip!

Exactly.

In fact the only reason why the 'normal' Audis haven't a better weight balance is because their basic setup is fwd to awd and not the reverse. But that being said, the effect on the exact performance of going quickly round corners due to this setup isn't that dramatic.

[Garduna]

Originally Posted by footie

Exactly.

In fact the only reason why the 'normal' Audis haven't a better weight balance is because their basic setup is fwd to awd and not the reverse. But that being said, the effect on the exact performance of going quickly round corners due to this setup isn't that dramatic.

Lets hope the next gen cars from audi are more rwd to awd based.

[footie]

Originally Posted by Garduna

Lets hope the next gen cars from audi are more rwd to awd based.

I believe this has been discussed on more than one occasion at the highest levels inside Audi. Whether it ever happens I honestly don't know but I do believe the engine will continue to move further back it future models.

[T89]

My bro has an s5 and having driven it quite often, IMO it is a great car. But as you all have discussed here, it is a totally different car to the m3.
The s5 is a gt. Very comfortable, great interior (much nicer than m3) and great for just cruising around, driving long distances. But if you're really going for it at WOT, then of course the m3 will always win in the corners. Unless in the snow, but that's a different story.
As a DD I would be very happy with the s5 but of course the m3 will offer that extra bit of something. and that's why, personally, I would choose the m3 over the s5 every time.

Can't wait to see how the rs5 turns out next month here in geneva. Should be interesting to say the least.


T

[akack79]

Let BMW design/build everything except for the interior, leave that for Audi

[immiketoo]

Originally Posted by akack79

Let BMW design/build everything except for the interior, leave that for Audi

Now you're thinkin! Conglomerates! ABMW?

[footie]

Originally Posted by akack79

Let BMW design/build everything except for the interior, leave that for Audi

Actually I would define that further.

Let BMW design and build the chassis, steering and engine (possibly) and let Audi do the interior, exterior, gearbox, the fit and finish of all panels and paintwork.

Now that would be a match made in heaven............but only if it had awd.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by footie

I have driven many a racing car with sublime steering feel and for a road car I personally think feeling is something that is over-rated, so while great feel might be something wanted at a trackday when you return to a bumpy back road all you really want and need is accurate steering that don't kick back. Personally the S5's steering was OK, sure it lack feel but it was very accurate with no slack around died centre, but that being said I do reckon the M3 is a bit better.

correction: ALOT BETTER!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by smmmurf

Sorry, AWD would completely ruin this car. It would make the car significantly heavier and take away the nimble, "neutral when you want it and tail-out when you want it" handling that I bought it for.

AGREE!!!
for sheer driving pleasure...it's RWD baby!!!

[footie]

Originally Posted by shiggy

correction: ALOT BETTER!

No I think my statement was correct, you would have to go to a Porsche before you could claim it to be A LOT BETTER.

In my opinion the M3 is just about spot on for a road car, it's steering offers just enough feel to be useful on the track but not too much to give it a nervous feel on least than ideal roads.

[majin ssj eric]

My comparison:

Exterior - S5 > M3
Interior - S5 > M3
Engine - M3 > S5
Handling - M3 > S5
Braking - M3 > S5
Ride - S5 > M3
Reliability - M3 = S5
Resale - M3 > S5
List price - S5 > M3
Gotta have it - M3 - 99.8 / S5 - 98.3

The M3 is my current favorite car (within my means) but the S5 would make for an awesome car. Throw in the fact that I see many more M3's around and I might be tempted to go Audi despite the deficiencies...

[shiggy]

[QUOTE=footie;6756473]No I think my statement was correct, you would have to go to a Porsche before you could claim it to be A LOT BETTER.

naw...335I is better....an M3....is ALOT BETTER!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by footie

Actually I would define that further.

Let BMW design and build the chassis, steering and engine (possibly) and let Audi do the interior, exterior, gearbox, the fit and finish of all panels and paintwork.

Now that would be a match made in heaven............but only if it had awd.

BMW should do the interior, exterior, chassis, steering, gearbox and the engine....and Audi can do the LED lights under the headlights...they do an awesome job with those!!!!...and keep it RWD...want a sports car...not a cruiser!