[See5]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

That's the second time you've mentioned the 991S is faster on a track. What makes you think that? Here some data that shows, around VIR at least, the 991S will be slower.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

The 991S is slower than even the Camaro ZL1. Much faster than both is the current Z06, a car that GM says this new C7 Stingray will beat (and the implication was around VIR).

Nurburgring times might be different with more sustained speed, but in this case the Porsche loses without a doubt. The last Z06 even beat the 2011 911 Turbo and 911 GT3.

The C7 will outrun the ZL1 on a road course for sure. It'll be a little slower than the base Z06's of '13 just due to the power and speed deficit, at least according to GM's test driver. Either way, it should outpace the 991S at most any track.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by See5

Not so fast. Edmunds tested the C7 and said the C7 performed better in every category than the last 991S PDK they tested.

It will be a dead heat in a straightline(C/D's last 991S trapped 118 vs 117 for the C7) and I actually look for the Vette to run the quicker times at the track due to its higher grip. Edmunds said it was the highest skidpad number of any production car with street tires they've ever tested. It did 1.11g in MT, 1.08 in Edmunds, and 1.08 for C/D. That's outrageous. Its got just as much grip as the old C6 Z06/ZR1 with Cup tires.

So for track times at least, I don't see where you would think the 991S would be quicker. Especially now that the Corvette is much easier to push due to the new eLSD and integrated chassis controls.

Yes, the Corvette team said themselves that they benchmarked the 991 for the C7. The goal was to make a car competitive regardless the price point and they did that very well IMO. The price is the cherry on top. And for those long trips, 29mpg isn't bad.

We know they will be pitted against one another in r&t or c&d soon. We shall see what happened but I can already venture a guess. And I'll always stand by same day tests rather than two tests on different days.
As for track times, what does the stingray run on the ring? The Carrera S did 7:40. Also, I guess you've not driven the 991. It is so easy to push towards the limit and the suspension geometry on it is flat out genius.n we will have to see how other tracks turn out in terms of times between the two since not much is out there as I just looked to see what was readily available.
Again, I can admire corvette making a cheap performance car but the corners they cut to make it at that price are so evident.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by See5

The C7 will outrun the ZL1 on a road course for sure. It'll be a little slower than the base Z06's of '13 just due to the power and speed deficit, at least according to GM's test driver. Either way, it should outpace the 991S at most any track.

Here's the link I was looking for. http://jalopnik.com/the-2014-corvett...-3-8-515993126

GM claims the C7 Stingray will go around VIR in 2:51 which beats the Z06 by 2 seconds and matches the ZR1. And most importantly destroys the 991S (2:58.9). I'd bet the C7 Z06 will be Ferrari 458 fast.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Here's the link I was looking for. http://jalopnik.com/the-2014-corvett...-3-8-515993126

GM claims the C7 Stingray will go around VIR in 2:51 which beats the Z06 by 2 seconds and matches the ZR1. And most importantly destroys the 991S (2:58.9). I'd bet the C7 Z06 will be Ferrari 458 fast.

To be fair, I would think GM's professional drivers are better than C&D editors.... I would probably expect a 2:55-2:57 time in C&D's hands.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

That's the second time you've mentioned the 991S is faster on a track. What makes you think that? Here some data that shows, around VIR at least, the 991S will be slower.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...o-2013-page-10

The 991S is slower than even the Camaro ZL1. Much faster than both is the current Z06, a car that GM says this new C7 Stingray will beat (and the implication was around VIR).

Nurburgring times might be different with more sustained speed, but in this case the Porsche loses without a doubt. The last Z06 even beat the 2011 911 Turbo and 911 GT3.

Gm can claim all they want. We will se what the stingray runs. It will be right around the 991S time. C&D driving the cars is different than factory drivers driving them.

And just wait for the new GT3 to beat them all!

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Gm can claim all they want. We will se what the stingray runs. It will be right around the 991S time. C&D driving the cars is different than factory drivers driving them.

And just wait for the new GT3 to beat them all!

Earlier you said the 991S will "obliterate" the Stingray around the track. Now they will be around the same time? (which I agree with). So which is it?

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Earlier you said the 991S will "obliterate" the Stingray around the track. Now they will be around the same time? (which I agree with). So which is it?

Don't mind him... He's just being extremely biased.

[CirrusSR22]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Don't mind him... He's just being extremely biased.

Oh, I know

I just like data - not generalizations and guesses. Only a few years ago I was the biggest GM (and Ford and Chrysler) hater, but I have to give credit where it's due. There are a lot of excellent American cars now and this is the most impressive so far.

[See5]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

We know they will be pitted against one another in r&t or c&d soon. We shall see what happened but I can already venture a guess. And I'll always stand by same day tests rather than two tests on different days.
As for track times, what does the stingray run on the ring? The Carrera S did 7:40. Also, I guess you've not driven the 991. It is so easy to push towards the limit and the suspension geometry on it is flat out genius.n we will have to see how other tracks turn out in terms of times between the two since not much is out there as I just looked to see what was readily available.
Again, I can admire corvette making a cheap performance car but the corners they cut to make it at that price are so evident.

I've driven the 991 plenty of times.

I think the C7 Z51 will be easily sub-7:40 at the ring. I don't see any reason why it won't beat a 991S at VIR, Ring, Laguna, etc. looking at its performance metrics.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Oh, I know

I just like data - not generalizations and guesses. Only a few years ago I was the biggest GM (and Ford and Chrysler) hater, but I have to give credit where it's due. There are a lot of excellent American cars now and this is the most impressive so far.

Use to be a American car hater as well, times have changed. I respect cars like CTS-V, Z06, ZR1, Boss 302, and so on. But would never buy any of them. But the C7 has changed that, I actually want one. I just want a Z06 version. Anyone who says GM cut corners with this car, has no f*cking clue.

[See5]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

And just wait for the new GT3 to beat them all!

Z06 should be coming in January. I don't think it will have a problem with the GT3. The last one didn't.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Gm can claim all they want. We will se what the stingray runs. It will be right around the 991S time. C&D driving the cars is different than factory drivers driving them.

And just wait for the new GT3 to beat them all!

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Earlier you said the 991S will "obliterate" the Stingray around the track. Now they will be around the same time? (which I agree with). So which is it?

Ha

[F32]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Not surprised the 991S with nearly 15% less power and more than 40% less tq will still own it in a straight and obliterate it on the track. Was surprised the jag d sport is faster though.

991S obliterate a C7 on a track? Dead wrong.

Take a look into how fast Corvettes are around tracks.

[F32]

Originally Posted by bimmer32five

991s smoking the Vette by .2 seconds according to car & driver is hardly smoking it. That close and it comes down to drivers.

Thank the launch-control and flappy-paddle gearbox with instantaneous shifts. Put the two next to each other from a 60 MPH roll and the Corvette will walk away from any naturally-aspirated, non GT-model Porsche.

[swanson]

Originally Posted by F32

Thank the launch-control and flappy-paddle gearbox with instantaneous shifts. Put the two next to each other from a 60 MPH roll and the Corvette will walk away from any naturally-aspirated, non GT-model Porsche.

Lets test them both with manuals to make it even. The C7 will destroy the 911S. And the Vettes have already been beating the porsches at the track for some time now. Its Porsche that needs to keep up.

[F32]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

In terms of performance, yes a 991S and a corvette are competitors, but price point is vastly different.
And yes, Porsche is absolutely the benchmark! It always has been and the fact that the article continually mentions how the stingray compares to the 911 proves the 911 is the car to which it's being benchmarked against.
Price point aside, it's amazing a car with 400 hp and 325 lb ft of tq is handily beating a car with 55 hp and almost 140 lb ft of tq more and both weight about the same. Mind you the 991S traps higher too and puts down track times that are supercar fast and from what I've seen the stingray won't match those either.
I think it's great value in the corvette but there are things I could never get over in them.
As far as price, most cars are overpriced. But again, brand marques like Porsche and Ferrari and the likes can charge whatever they want because their products command those prices and people willingly pay. Chevy is not one of those brands. Plus the quality, intangibles and ownership experience to boot are vastly different.
I don't think 911s are overpriced. If you go crazy with them yes they can be but they are a highly customizable car and that carries a price. Generally you don't need to add a lot to them. Nav is standard in the 991 so other than heated/ventilated seats and maybe sport exhaust what else could you need? You can have one for a reasonable price and the performance and handling is worthy of that price.

You sound like you have no clue what you are talking about. Typical for a Porsche fan. I've owned one. Meeting with the non trackday P-car demographic was embarassing.

Luckily for Porsche, they have a solid foundation of buyers. 20% will always be enthusiasts. The other 80% will remain as doctors, accountants, and lawyers who had absolutely no interest in cars growing up, were dorks all through their 20s, and now that they can afford luxuries, buy the one sports cars they see the other dorks driving. I know this because a life-long friend, currently a surgeon who drives a Porsche, did exactly that and said others did as well.

[F32]

Originally Posted by CirrusSR22

Here's the link I was looking for. http://jalopnik.com/the-2014-corvett...-3-8-515993126

GM claims the C7 Stingray will go around VIR in 2:51 which beats the Z06 by 2 seconds and matches the ZR1. And most importantly destroys the 991S (2:58.9). I'd bet the C7 Z06 will be Ferrari 458 fast.

Thank you. 8 second gap around a sub 3-minute course. Now that is an eternity for racing.

People are stuck in the 90s where Porsche made badass cars and Corvettes were garbage.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by F32

You sound like you have no clue what you are talking about. Typical for a Porsche fan. I've owned one. Meeting with the non trackday P-car demographic was embarassing.

Luckily for Porsche, they have a solid foundation of buyers. 20% will always be enthusiasts. The other 80% will remain as doctors, accountants, and lawyers who had absolutely no interest in cars growing up, were dorks all through their 20s, and now that they can afford luxuries, buy the one sports cars they see the other dorks driving. I know this because a life-long friend, currently a surgeon who drives a Porsche, did exactly that and said others did as well.

The only one who doesn't know what they're talking about it you. Every marque always attracts people who only want the best. Nothing surprising there.
I've also owned both a 911 and cayman S and found plenty of enthusiasts on or off the track.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by F32

Thank you. 8 second gap around a sub 3-minute course. Now that is an eternity for racing.

People are stuck in the 90s where Porsche made badass cars and Corvettes were garbage.

Hahahahaha

That is strictly a gm "claim". When they actually run the stingray there you can guarantee it won't come close. Just like how the cts v was supposed to own the m3 on track and got beaten by a 20 yr old kid in an m3 sedan and took a factory driver to beat that time.

Sorry but porsche still makes badass cars. That's why no Chevy product could ever compare to a GT porsche. Never seen any vette win best performance car of the year or the best car of the year like the GT3/RS/4.0 has.

[See5]

Originally Posted by F32

People are stuck in the 90s where Porsche made badass cars and Corvettes were garbage.

I'd put a '98 C5 against a '98 996 anytime. In fact, I'm pretty sure they are worth the same these days. I know there's a lot more C5s on the street still kicking ass.

The C4 stayed around too long because of GM's crappy financial management and really scarred a lot of people despite the C4 ZR-1 being awesome. Should've been replaced in the early 90's.

[Wolfinwolfsclothing]

Originally Posted by swanson

Lets test them both with manuals to make it even. The C7 will destroy the 911S. And the Vettes have already been beating the porsches at the track for some time now. Its Porsche that needs to keep up.

Lol

Lets see which car gets picked when they do the comparo. Hint, won't be the vette.

Also how does that explain how Porsches have been owning vettes in ALMS for as long as the GT class has been around? They don't need to keep up at all. That's why the 911 was benchmarked by Chevy right?

[See5]

Originally Posted by Wolfinwolfsclothing

Also how does that explain how Porsches have been owning vettes in ALMS for as long as the GT class has been around? They don't need to keep up at all. That's why the 911 was benchmarked by Chevy right?

I'm pretty sure the C6 won the manufacturers championship last season and you should remember that before a few years ago, the Corvette ran a class up from the Porsches where it won its class something like 7 or 8 years straight.