[954Stealth]

I agree that in some fields a degree is absolutely necessary. Many employers go right to education and will toss a resume that doesn't include a Bachelor's.
But in this day and age, how do you separate yourself from the 300 other applications sitting on a desk or inbox of HR? Maybe with a Master's, especially if they can hire you at the same salary as those with just the BS/BA

[nick380]

Nowadays I feel a degree isn't worth as much as experience, and certifications in the field. For example if you are certified in networking, that might as well be as good as having a bachelors in networking. The CCNA from Cisco is a very well known certification and is accepted by all if not almost all networking companies... and not at all easy to obtain. Degrees usually just involve getting pay limits in a position without them. Other than that I feel knowing a person in that field and having the experience will leave you a lot better off then someone who just graduated and has almost no experience in that field, and knows no one. Take note you have to go through a lot of courses which end up just being "Fillers" for your degree and you'll most likely never use depending on what you want to specialize in that given field of study.

I currently am attending community college having graduated high school in 2012, and so far I feel as though my time has been wasted seeing as how for the first 2 years you are taking mainly "General' Ed courses which involves mostly classes you'll not only never use, but don't even want to take really. I'm currently working on both my CCNA, Comptia A+, and Server + Certs as I am going for a position in Networking/Database/IT Admin. I currently work for a networking resale company and spend most of my time testing several equipments including servers,firewalls, routers, switches, ap's, etc.

So as you can see the experience is being gained, which in the future will look really good on a Resume when they see you have already been working with said equipment for several years, rather than having a bachelors and not knowing the experience kind of knowledge you gain through time such as troubleshooting. My situation may be unique, but the concept is the same in many other subjects.

[FC4]

Isn't it funny how you can tell who went to college and who didn't literally within a few seconds of meeting them? Or by the way they type on a message board...

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Litos

in my experience, I'm blessed that I didn't go to College...

aside from the stupid loans you have to pay back, 85% of the curriculum taught for your particular major is worthless and not needed when you sit at a desk or get to the jobsite......

in college, you still have to take those worthless math classes, English papers and other meaningless crap - just like high school...

when did we ever once have to know who the fucking 27th president was when we interviewed for a job or was asked by a supervisor to calculate a calculus problem because the answer was needed before COB !?!?!

exactly........

sometimes I think school is for people who do not possess the fire and hunger to go out and make actual shit happen.

like for real - go out and pull some fucking people around, market yourself and your personality, speak with authority and knowledge, network and rub shoulders with other successful people and most importantly conduct business like a motherfucking ass kicker.....

some people "need" school to help them get in the door - others kick down that door with tenacity and an overall desire to want to succeed.....

LOL

[MrPrena]

Well, when the tuition was much cheaper back then, it was well worth it.
Now, even most of in-state tuition cost $6k/sem? 6k was entire tuition budget for master's back then. (tuitions alone).

If tuition was as expensive as now, I would probably not even bother with school. It is just my opinion. With the tuition $, I would probably invest in commercial real estate, or securities for greater return.

Also, depends on what you are studying. Most of business classes can be self taught. MBA? I've seen some HS grad having a good mentor who knows much more sh1t than top 10 business school graduates.
Seriously.. after graduating from Wharton or Sloan, and they can't even "apply" a high school calculus/ode to apply the systemic market risk relative to change in % of specific investment(s)?????

However, some stuffs are harder. Maybe all 3 semesters of calculus with good cheap tutors can be self taught. It would be 1,000x harder for Adv Atomic Physics, Molecular Biophysics, Mass spectrometry, Chemical dynamics, PDE, adv EMF grad classes.

From my academic experiences, Sophomore undergrad Physics is more difficult than decent MBA prog, or even MA/MS Economics.

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

I was C/O 2010 at CSUF, business major. Currently working in a field unrelated to business (Education) and really didn't need a degree to get my position in a management role.

I work indirectly with students. 85% want to go straight for their Master's degree and aren't sure why. The most common responses are 'to make more money and to make their parents proud'. 99% do not know how much their tuition will cost, how much debt they may incur and the average salaries associated with those majors.

Student loan debt exceeds credit card debt in America. This is the next bubble.

Is pursuing a college degree nowadays really worth it? Why or why not?

[BayMoWe335]

Originally Posted by Litos

in my experience, I'm blessed that I didn't go to College...

aside from the stupid loans you have to pay back, 85% of the curriculum taught for your particular major is worthless and not needed when you sit at a desk or get to the jobsite......

in college, you still have to take those worthless math classes, English papers and other meaningless crap - just like high school...

when did we ever once have to know who the fucking 27th president was when we interviewed for a job or was asked by a supervisor to calculate a calculus problem because the answer was needed before COB !?!?!

exactly........

sometimes I think school is for people who do not possess the fire and hunger to go out and make actual shit happen.

like for real - go out and pull some fucking people around, market yourself and your personality, speak with authority and knowledge, network and rub shoulders with other successful people and most importantly conduct business like a motherfucking ass kicker.....

some people "need" school to help them get in the door - others kick down that door with tenacity and an overall desire to want to succeed.....

Your experience unfortunately isn't the reality, not to say it doesn't happen. However, even if you have all the tenacity and shoulder rubbing tendencies, 9 times out of 10, the person with the degree will have a huge advantage and be more successful. All the statistics show that as well. Getting a degree from a decent university is simply better, period. There are tons of idiots with degrees and I agree most of the stuff is worthless, but it's a necessary evil.

Sure, you can get to places without one, but many professions absolutely require the degree. Doctors, Lawyers, Nurses, Engineers, etc, etc. You'll never get there without it, ever.

Most important point: If by your definition, you made it happen in your field, good for you, but that advice will hurt most people. And, there is no way to measure how much better off you'd be with a Master's from a top 20 school. Your personality, skills, tenacity, etc could mean you'd be making triple what you do now. No way to ever know that.

Most successful people went to school and got a degree. That's just a fact. And don't start talking about Bill Gates and Mark Cuban. You know they are outliers in every sense of the word. The successful people I talk about are all executives in Fortune 500 companies. CEOs. Doctors. Lawyers. Investment Bankers. Surgeons. The top 1% of the world are probably 85% educated with at least a 4 year degree. Don't have any stats, but I would bet anything that's true.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by Myrder

You don't have a good example. You take the highest paid of any tier and the lowest paid of the other and compare them?

Nurses averaged 65k in 2012. Family medicine, geriatrics, and pediatricians easily double that on average.

I work with nurses and physicians everyday and have never heard a physician regret becoming a doctor. Now if you compare a specialty nurse, like a nurse anesthetist to an anesthesiologist you are talking about 160k vs 400k average. Doesn't seem to close to me.



http://money.usnews.com/careers/best...d-nurse/salary
http://healthcareers.about.com/od/co...r-Salaries.htm

I failed to mention as another member did, it's not just about the money however. What do you do for a living, if you don't mind me asking?

[MrPrena]

Originally Posted by BayMoWe335

Your experience unfortunately isn't the reality, not to say it doesn't happen. However, even if you have all the tenacity and shoulder rubbing tendencies, 9 times out of 10, the person with the degree will have a huge advantage and be more successful. All the statistics show that as well. Getting a degree from a decent university is simply better, period. There are tons of idiots with degrees and I agree most of the stuff is worthless, but it's a necessary evil.

Sure, you can get to places without one, but many professions absolutely require the degree. Doctors, Lawyers, Nurses, Engineers, etc, etc. You'll never get there without it, ever.

Most important point: If by your definition, you made it happen in your field, good for you, but that advice will hurt most people. And, there is no way to measure how much better off you'd be with a Master's from a top 20 school. Your personality, skills, tenacity, etc could mean you'd be making triple what you do now. No way to ever know that.

Most successful people went to school and got a degree. That's just a fact. And don't start talking about Bill Gates and Mark Cuban. You know they are outliers in every sense of the word. The successful people I talk about are all executives in Fortune 500 companies. CEOs. Doctors. Lawyers. Investment Bankers. Surgeons. The top 1% of the world are probably 85% educated with at least a 4 year degree. Don't have any stats, but I would bet anything that's true.

Not being a smart@ss, but Cuban went to Indiana.

[NemesisX]

The thing about business executive type jobs is that there are way, way more people qualified to do the job than there are spots. College offers a way to differentiate the list of candidates. That's why a 4.0 Havard grad will get preference over a 3.5 grad from Joe Schmoe community college.

That being said I do think that college is really only a benefit if you pursue a STEM degree. Engineering, math, physics, some sort of natural science en route to an M.D., etc. Business curricula are all too often filled with "fluff" courses.

If you want to work in patent law, for example, you absolutely must have a technical degree - preferably a masters - in addition to your J.D. College is essential in that case. If you want to consult for patent law firms as an expert witness, 99% of the time you need a PhD. Actually, more than that, you usually need to be internationally renowned in your field. But I digress..

Also BayMoWe335 is correct...something like 90%+ of U.S. multi-millionaires have college degrees, yet nowhere near 90% of the U.S. population is college educated. That's a statistically significant difference.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by nick380

I currently am attending community college having graduated high school in 2012, and so far I feel as though my time has been wasted seeing as how for the first 2 years you are taking mainly "General' Ed courses which involves mostly classes you'll not only never use, but don't even want to take really. I'm currently working on both my CCNA, Comptia A+, and Server + Certs as I am going for a position in Networking/Database/IT Admin. I currently work for a networking resale company and spend most of my time testing several equipments including servers,firewalls, routers, switches, ap's, etc.

Here's a great position for you when you're ready. Starts at $83k with benefits. No Bachelor's required and it's at a college of all places.

Experience > Education

https://hrjobs.mtsac.edu/postings/2820

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Here's a great position for you when you're ready. Starts at $83k with benefits. No Bachelor's required and it's at a college of all places.

Experience > Education

https://hrjobs.mtsac.edu/postings/2820

You don't need a bachelors degree in the sense that it's not a "minimum requirement" but I'll bet most IT guys clearing $100K have a bachelor's (probably in computer science or some math-y field) or higher. I don't know the actual statistics, but that's generally what I see from personal experience.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

You don't need a bachelors degree in the sense that it's not a "minimum requirement" but I'll bet most IT guys clearing $100K have a bachelor's (probably in computer science or some math-y field) or higher. I don't know the actual statistics, but that's generally what I see from personal experience.

Did you look closely? This position (if you stay for 6 years) will move up to $102,936 annually.

I'm using a real life application here. The best part is, (I work at the 2nd highest paying community college) we have a union. Which means it's near impossible to get fired after 6 month probation.

But, I hear your point, most people in the IT world making over $100k, have a bachelor's degree.... just need the proof

[nick380]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

Here's a great position for you when you're ready. Starts at $83k with benefits. No Bachelor's required and it's at a college of all places.

Experience > Education

https://hrjobs.mtsac.edu/postings/2820

Oh wow talk about getting some motivation ! With those kinds of positions available going to college almost seems silly haha.

[upstatedoc]

Originally Posted by Myrder

Nurses averaged 65k in 2012. Family medicine, geriatrics, and pediatricians easily double that on average.

If you're a doctor making $120-130k a year you're an idiot. Or a psychiatrist. That was starting salary 12-15 years ago. I graduated med school with $170k of debt and would have to work until I was 112 to pay that off if that was all I was making...

[954Stealth]

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

If you're a doctor making $120-130k a year you're an idiot. Or a psychiatrist. That was starting salary 12-15 years ago. I graduated med school with $170k of debt and would have to work until I was 112 to pay that off if that was all I was making...

And that doesn't factor in owning a practice either...

[Myrder]

Originally Posted by FwdFtl

I failed to mention as another member did, it's not just about the money however. What do you do for a living, if you don't mind me asking?

I know it's not just about money but that is what you pointed out. Both RNs and MDs have brutal amounts of hours, save a few specialties that have decent home lives.

Anyway I'm in healthcare analytics/economics/infomatics.

Originally Posted by upstatedoc

If you're a doctor making $120-130k a year you're an idiot. Or a psychiatrist. That was starting salary 12-15 years ago. I graduated med school with $170k of debt and would have to work until I was 112 to pay that off if that was all I was making...

I completely agree. But family medicine averages $190k-200k a year. NY is going to pay more than rural Arkansas. I'm not down playing physician salary, they make an amazing amount and they put in the hours, school, and time to deserve most of it.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by Myrder

I know it's not just about money but that is what you pointed out. Both RNs and MDs way brutal amounts of hours, save a few specialties that have decent home lives.

Anyway I'm in healthcare analytics/economics/infomatics.





I completely agree. But family medicine averages $190k-200k a year. NY is going to pay more than rural Arkansas. I'm not down playing physician salary, they make an amazing amount and they put in the hours, school, and time to deserve most of it.

Usually not enough to offset cost of living differences. I agree doctors deserve every penny they get. Hell, their real incomes have probably dropped steadily over the past few decades.

[Seminole]

It depends on what job you are going for. I'm not going to hire an engineer with no degree or certification.

I went to a state school for accounting (easy to guess which one by my username) and tuition now is around $6,500 per year which is almost $2k higher compared to when I was there. Still, you can get a four year degree for only $26k. Plus in Florida any high school graduate who has a certain GPA/SAT score can get a 75% or 100% scholarship sponsored by the state.

I went straight for my Masters after undergrad and it was only $11k for the one year program.

I graduated in 5 years with a BS and MS for only $6k out of pocket. Nobody here can tell me that it doesn't make sense to get two degrees for that little amount of money. College is an investment and you have to look at it like that. Basically, does it make sense to give up 4 or 5 years to go to school for a degree like marketing if you are already a successful salesman and it means you have to give up your $60k a year job. If a degree doesn't add value then don't do it. The problem is a lot of high school grads don't think about the future implications of their degrees and just and just take some random subject in order to go party for four years at some private school that is $40k per year. In the end they get a job in a field that has nothing to do with their degree and they are saddled with debt. That's a shame and we need to do a better job of educating those kids in high school about their options.

[Uber V8]

Originally Posted by Seminole

we need to do a better job of educating those kids in high school about their options.

This.

Financial literacy or life management should be a required course in H.S. Some students still don't know their SSN.

[MMMCOOKIES55]

I make 80k a year and didn't go to college. My wife makes 100k a year, she has a masters degree. Could I have gone further in my career with a degree, no (service manager). Could my wife be where she is today without hers, no. It all depends on your career path and scholarships. My wife got a full ride, so no debt.

[Litos]

I laugh every time I see these stupid articles in yahoo that says "jobs that earn 100K a year"...

then you read the article and every job requires a masters and/or 10-15 years experience HAHAHA !!!!

[FC4]

Originally Posted by Litos

I laugh every time I see these stupid articles in yahoo that says "jobs that earn 100K a year"...

then you read the article and every job requires a masters and/or 10-15 years experience HAHAHA !!!!

You actually click on those Yahoo articles? HAHAHAHA!!!