[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Joekerr

ITT

Littlebear broke Sedan_Clan patience. This isn't a failing on Sedan's part, he has always conducted himself with a ton of patience ITT, it was more just an inevitable outcome where the only unknown was when. I was amazed he was as patient as he was for as long as he was.

I rarely try to rationalize with Littlebear anymore.

With the exception of abortion I suppose - I always try to rationalize with anyone on that topic as it might save someone's life. Interestingly, he doesn't like to talk or share much about that topic though.

From my vantage point it's like talking to a rock expecting it to talk back. Everybody has tried to rationalize with him ITT. His anti-police sentiment is obvious, so it colors everything he says (…including his passive-aggressiveness or condescension). He could've simply asked about lower police/fire vaccination rates WITHOUT the low education parallel (…although a large percentage of cops are educated; police management positions almost always require a BA or higher), for example. His methods are tiring.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

.... He could've simply asked about lower police/fire vaccination rates WITHOUT the low education parallel....

My citing of what groups also have low vaccination rates came after my figures were belittled because they 'came from NYC', and some nice person started instructing others to ignore my stuff (again).

So deal with it. You never win on points.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

My citing of what groups also have low vaccination rates came after my figures were belittled because they 'came from NYC', and some nice person started instructing others to ignore my stuff (again).

So deal with it.

Nobody instructed anybody to do anything…….anywhere…..in this thread. Most ignored you long ago.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Nobody instructed anybody to do anything…….anywhere…..in this thread. Most ignored you long ago.

I thought you understood paraphrasing. But you are pretty good at implied insults & putting yourself above others!

"Haven't we learned to kind of just ignore him? No matter what we say, we're always wrong (…and we're the ones with the experience and/or perspective)."
Clan

(I'm out)

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

I thought you understood paraphrasing. But you are pretty good at implied insults & putting yourself above others!

"Haven't we learned to kind of just ignore him? No matter what we say, we're always wrong (…and we're the ones with the experience and/or perspective)."
Clan

(I'm out)

That's a statement based on the group's consensus over MONTHS of trying to have rational dialogue with you. It's a tireless endeavor indeed.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

That's a statement based on the group's consensus over MONTHS of trying to have rational dialogue with you. It's a tireless endeavor indeed.

Good thing I have no need to base my dialogue & debating performance on what happens in an off-topic pro-cop car-site thread!
Why are you so threatened by different opinions?

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Good thing I have no need to base my dialogue & debating performance on what happens in an off-topic pro-cop car-site thread!
Why are you so threatened by different opinions?

I thought you were out?!?!

P.S. The issue isn't whether or not you're pro-law enforcement; after all, this thread is intended to be an inquiry thread full of varying opinions. The issue is the way you convey and your tendency to be passive aggressive and/or condescending. Nobody is fearful of your opinion. Some, including myself, just choose not to engage you much of the time because of your attitude.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Good thing I have no need to base my dialogue & debating performance on what happens in an off-topic pro-cop car-site thread!
Why are you so threatened by different opinions?

It would seem you've made a name for yourself in quite a few threads. The common denominator is you.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

It would seem you've made a name for yourself in quite a few threads. The common denominator is you.

Yea, good edit there. Who is using the term 'dumb ass'? Not I.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

I thought you were out?!?!

P.S. The issue isn't whether or not you're pro-law enforcement; after all, this thread is intended to be an inquiry thread full of varying opinions. The issue is the way you convey and your tendency to be passive aggressive and/or condescending. Nobody is fearful of your opinion. Some, including myself, just choose not to engage you much of the time because of your attitude.

If you are still willing, I'm willing to listen to your answer to problems I addressed in my first & second post of this episode, especially how the police unions can't see it to encourage vaccinations of its members.
I got belittlement & insults instead the first time. Pls read my two posts below & tell me what is so objectionable?

"More than 460 American law enforcement officers have died from Covid infections, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page, making the coronavirus by far the most common cause of duty-related deaths in 2020 and 2021. More than four times as many officers have died from Covid-19 as from gunfire in that period."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/17/u...sultPosition=1

Post #1) "Nonsense. In NYC the cops & firefighters have such low vaccination #s that will just ensure spread. That was before the vaccine mandate. And they don't wear masks in the supermarket.
Just pretend you are in the army & buck up."

Post #2) "Considering that the low vaccine rate is not limited to NYC cops & firefighters, but nationally is killing cops at ~ six times wot guns do, I don't see the prevailing political attitude of NYC being a major factor.
We all indulge our mental flights & fears. Getting over such is one of the battles of life. I really don't understand why police unions would come out against vaccinations. These are people of authority & influence. For some reason they act like their sh!t don't stink."

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

If you are still willing, I'm willing to listen to your answer to problems I addressed in my first & second post of this episode, especially how the police unions can see it to encourage vaccinations of its members.
I got belittlement & insults instead the first time. Pls read my two posts below & tell me what is so objectionable?

"More than 460 American law enforcement officers have died from Covid infections, according to the Officer Down Memorial Page, making the coronavirus by far the most common cause of duty-related deaths in 2020 and 2021. More than four times as many officers have died from Covid-19 as from gunfire in that period."
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/10/17/u...sultPosition=1

Post #1) "Nonsense. In NYC the cops & firefighters have such low vaccination #s that will just ensure spread. That was before the vaccine mandate. And they don't wear masks in the supermarket.
Just pretend you are in the army & buck up."

Post #2) "Considering that the low vaccine rate is not limited to NYC cops & firefighters, but nationally is killing cops at ~ six times wot guns do, I don't see the prevailing political attitude of NYC being a major factor.
We all indulge our mental flights & fears. Getting over such is one of the battles life. I really don't understand why police unions would come out against vaccinations. These are people of authority & influence. For some reason they act like their sh!t don't stink."

Ok, I'll bite. Here's the simplest answer that I can provide you:

1. The unions won't be able to encourage vaccinations because the refusal to vaccinate has nothing to do with them. What I mean is…..people are refusing to vaccinate because of their own personal belief system, BIG government intervention, distrust in BIG government and distrust where THIS PARTICULAR vaccine is concerned (..and the absurd push behind it). A union isn't going to change those fundamental positions.
2. Police unions understand their purpose, and their purpose IS NOT to push an agenda of any sort. The purpose of a union is to fight for labor rights and to some degree, civil rights.
3. The deaths by COVID infection do not tell the entire story and I know of many cases [in general] where COVID was penned as the cause, but that person's health condition was conveniently missing from the reference. I do not know of ONE person who died SOLELY because of contracting COVID, which isn't to state those cases don't exist, but they are the outliers.
4. Choice should always an option!

I hope that clarifies your inquiry.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Ok, I'll bite. Here's the simplest answer that I can provide you:

1. The unions won't be able to encourage vaccinations because the refusal to vaccinate has nothing to do with them. What I mean is…..people are refusing to vaccinate because of their own personal belief system, BIG government intervention, distrust in BIG government and distrust where THIS PARTICULAR vaccine is concerned (..and the absurd push behind it). A union isn't going to change those fundamental positions.
2. Police unions understand their purpose, and their purpose IS NOT to push an agenda of any sort. The purpose of a union is to fight for labor rights and to some degree, civil rights.
3. The deaths by COVID infection do not tell the entire story and I know of many cases [in general] where COVID was penned as the cause, but that person's health condition was conveniently missing from the reference. I do not know of ONE person who died SOLELY because of contracting COVID, which isn't to state those cases don't exist, but they are the outliers.
4. Choice should always an option!

I hope that clarifies your inquiry.

Yes, that is much better. You just gave us four reasons why policy should not be made by the general police population! The foundations of those points are so weak.

Thank you Clan.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Yes, that is much better. You just gave us four reasons why policy should not be made by the general police population!

Thank you Clan.

And still you don't get it.

[Sedan_Clan]

Littlebear why are you so overly concerned with a person's decision to pass on the vaccination? How or why does that impact your life at all? Furthermore, let's talk about the thousands of nurses and doctors willing to lose their jobs over the mandates. Surely they aren't uneducated people, right?!? Surely they are on the front lines, and still, they are wary of this vaccine. Do you ever ask yourself WHY?!?

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

And still you don't get it.

Oh I get it. It's hard to live a well considered life (but it's worth it).

I read this book a long time ago. It has to do with overcoming the irrational mental fears & mental blocks that hold all of us back. Of course Don Juan used mushrooms to open the mind, but maybe you don't need to.

"The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge"
Book by Carlos Castaneda

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Oh I get it. It's hard to live a well considered life (but it's worth it).

I read this book a long time ago. It has to do with overcoming the irrational mental fears & mental blocks that hold all of us back. Of course Don Juan used mushrooms to open the mind, but maybe you don't need to.

"The Teachings of Don Juan: A Yaqui Way of Knowledge"
Book by Carlos Castaneda

So you purport that we should all be lemmings and just follow along and do what we're told [by the government] without question?!? We should give the government carte blanche to tell us what to put in our bodies and have no absolute right to choice?!?

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

Littlebear why are you so overly concerned with a person's decision to pass on the vaccination? How or why does that impact your life at all? Furthermore, let's talk about the thousands of nurses and doctors willing to lose their jobs over the mandates. Surely they aren't uneducated people, right?!? Surely they are on the front lines, and still, they are wary of this vaccine. Do you ever ask yourself WHY?!?

Many people come into contact with cops & fire fighters, even discounting their maskless supermarket visits.
I ask all the time why lots of nurses (not doctors) don't vaccinate. This is what I meant when I asked if they all belong to the "Leopard Ate My Face" party (look it up).

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

So you purport that we should all be lemmings and just follow along and do what we're told [by the government] without question?!? We should give the government carte blanche to tell us what to put in our bodies and have no absolute right to choice?!?

Stop that, Clan. The info is out there. We elect a government, and then we follow the lawful policies of that government.
In the past some had the choice of living in a lepers colony. When folks can tell me when they started fighting air pollution, I will worry about putting one of the most proven vaccines in history into them. Pollution is pollution, right?
If you don't like the mRNA vaccines, there is always the old J&J type.

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Many people come into contact with cops & fire fighters, even discounting their maskless supermarket visits.
I ask all the time why lots of nurses (not doctors) don't vaccinate. This is what I meant when I asked if they all belong to the "Leopard Ate My Face" party.

You are being intellectually dishonest in your discourse and this is why most ignore you and/or don't take you seriously. Medical professionals ARE FORCED to vaccinate. When you force anybody to do anything, you cannot count that "decision" into the aggregate. The only true measurement to be considered is that which is made from absolute choice. Doctors/nurses who didn't agree with the vaccine mandate and had the strength/courage to walk away, did it without hesitation. Those who weren't willing to die on that hill complied, but those were decisions made under duress.

P.S. The mask isn't really doing anything for you unless it's an N95. Stop already!

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

P.S. The non-N95 mask isn't doing anything for you. Stop already!

wait, whut????

[Sedan_Clan]

Originally Posted by Littlebear

Stop that, Clan. The info is out there. We elect a government, and then we follow the lawful policies of that government.
In the past some had the choice of living in a lepers colony. When folks can tell me when they started fighting air pollution, I will worry about putting one of the most proven vaccines in history into them. Pollution is pollution, right?
If you don't like the mRNA vaccines, there is always the old J&J type.

Government has limitations. Government should have limitations. The government should not infringe on your right to choose. If those fundamental tenets don't align with your belief system, you Sir, are in the wrong country.

The black community has one of the lowest vaccination rates. What's your opinion on that? ….and don't tell me they are too stupid or aren't resourceful enough to know/understand how to get vaccinated.

[Littlebear]

Originally Posted by Sedan_Clan

You are being intellectually dishonest in your discourse and this is why most ignore you and/or don't take you seriously. Medical professionals ARE FORCED to vaccinate. When you force anybody to do anything, you cannot count that "decision" into the aggregate. The only true measurement to be considered is that which is made from absolute choice. Doctors/nurses who didn't agree with the vaccine mandate and had the strength/courage to walk away, did it without hesitation. Those who weren't willing to die on that hill complied, but those were decisions made under duress.

P.S. The non-N95 mask isn't doing anything for you. Stop already!

Nobody is forced to get vaccinated, not even doctors. Even in my worst case scenario above (leprosy), people had the 'choice' of living in a colony so that they didn't affect other citizens.
Absolute Choice is a curious choice of words. It is much debated in religions, not often in a favorable way. It has undercurrents of lawlessness.