[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Yet the 2022 Inflation Reduction Act (err. Step 1 of the Green New Deal) reestablished the EV tax incentives until 2032 with no unit sales cap and they now apply to used EV. And the billions for charging infrastructure...

I was unable to prevent that legislation from passing. Sorry man.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I was unable to prevent that legislation from passing. Sorry man.

No worries, it's going to happen one way or another. Lol.

[kyriian]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

I have to disagree about the tech will come. That statement needs to be qualified. What will be the recharge speed, battery range, battery longevity, and cost? As it stands now 300 miles of range requires approximately 90 kWh usable battery capacity. EV motors may get a bit more efficient, but the battery energy density will have to greatly improve. The chemistry will need to be high-rate charging resilient.

And all that is said now is the charging infrastructure needs to be improved and grown for reliability and availability. When the (Toyota) 900-mile /15-minute battery comes to fruition does it still use the current charger architecture, or is a new charger design needed and the public infrastructure requires tens of billions in tech refresh? And who pays? 20 years into EV already, the obvious takeaway is the world's governments foot the bill for infrastructure because the EV market has no business case. Tax payers pay to build the infrastructure then get charged to use it.

I'll repeat, electric cars are not cell phones. The "tech" is not that easy.

Will it be solved is a crystal ball prediction at best at this point. I have my doubts like you it’d ever be solved as batteries are not really a solution anyway but at best a step toward something else.

Frankly, even if Toyota managed to launch their 900 mile battery, it won’t see much application and a much smaller version with around the 300 mile marker will probably be used far more often, for it offers a far smaller package and charge speed that would somewhat bring the gap between the practical ICE to EV. Personally though I still say PHEV or serial hybrid is the way to go for the majority of the population.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BTW, my first EV (circa 1973)...

And you're still waiting for it to reach 100% charge on the batteries.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

And you're still waiting for it to reach 100% charge on the batteries.

Lead-acid. But the charger was just an egg timer. Lol.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

Lead-acid. But the charger was just an egg timer. Lol.

I still have my grandfathers one, small heavy silver box with cooling holes all around still working and buzzing.

[M5Rick]

The risk of battery repair costs whether it comes from an accident or the remaining charge left on EV's to actually continue driving have made insurance companies increase premiums hugely and not just double but even quadrupled or more. Just on the news just now one large insurance arm of John Lewis is refusing to even insure any EV.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

I still have my grandfathers one, small heavy silver box with cooling holes all around still working and buzzing.

The Elec-Trak had an on-board charger. I had to fix it once when I was 14 or so. The diodes died on it. The timer went too, so I hardwired it with a male plug. The machine was way ahead of its time.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The Elec-Trak had an on-board charger. I had to fix it once when I was 14 or so. The diodes died on it. The timer went too, so I hardwired it with a male plug. The machine was way ahead of its time.

The label fell of this vintage charger, but another small one says EE Co,London,we have a laugh with the family when I switch it on in the garage and the buzz changes when the micro 2 pin plug adjusts the power higher.

[M3WC]

GM is joining Ford as they scrap EV targets.

General Motors is reworking its EV strategy in North America and is pulling back from efforts to challenge Tesla's lead in the US electric vehicle segment amid slowing EV sales growth, rising labor costs, and a bleak economic outlook.

We are also moderating the acceleration of EV production in North America to protect our pricing, adjust to slower near-term growth in demand

The bad news for GM's electrification efforts doesn't end here. The automaker said it is also slowing the launch of several EV models to cut costs and is cutting back on EV product spending. Delayed models include the Chevrolet Equinox EV, Chevrolet Silverado EV RST, and GMC Sierra EV.

From a financial standpoint, Barra said in the shareholder letter that GM has work to do to ensure it achieves "low to mid-single-digit EBIT EV margin targets in 2025" given the industry's changing pricing and demand outlook and higher labor costs.

https://insideevs.com/news/692967/gm...ough-mid-2024/

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by M3WC

GM is joining Ford as they scrap EV targets.

These companies are discovering that following the EPA's play book is a suicide pact.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

These companies are discovering that following the EPA's play book is a suicide pact.

They need to stop investing so much is pure EVs and focus on hybrids. There is so much untapped potential with hybrid tech and the public is far more welcoming of it.

Toyota seems to be the only ones really embracing hybrid. They managed to squeeze 60% more energy out of new Prius' 280lb battery vs the prior gen's 265lb battery. That's major progress.

Although not really intended for MPG improvement, I personally like GM's Corvette eRay with the ICE drivetrain completely separate from the electric drivetrain which is up front. It's a great way to do AWD and all sorts of other performance wizardy.

[BGM-M3COMP]

I knew no one can dare attempt to try to beat Tesla

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by BGM-M3COMP

I knew no one can dare attempt to try to beat Tesla

OPPS

Tesla sales again fall short of production
But it does mean that over the last 12 months Tesla has produced 78,000 more cars than it has sold, suggesting that talk of strong demand by Tesla executives may not be backed up by the numbers. That 78,000-vehicle excess production is equal to 5% of the cars it has built.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/inves...les/index.html

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

OPPS

Tesla sales again fall short of production
But it does mean that over the last 12 months Tesla has produced 78,000 more cars than it has sold, suggesting that talk of strong demand by Tesla executives may not be backed up by the numbers. That 78,000-vehicle excess production is equal to 5% of the cars it has built.
https://www.cnn.com/2023/04/02/inves...les/index.html

That's from April 2023 on first quarter data. So...outdated.

[gblansten]

Tesla's third quarter sales were down slightly as expected as production of the old Model 3 stopped and the they re-did the production lines.

[M5Rick]

If Tesla are giving away free cars due to overproduction then I'll take one off their hands, I'll buy the charger cable

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Tesla's third quarter sales were down slightly

You mean this third quarter report?

Tesla Q3 profit falls 44% on EV price cuts
Tesla attributed its fallen profitability margin largely to its reduced pricing of vehicles. In the third quarter, Tesla cut prices for its Model S and Model X luxury vehicles by as much as $18,500 per car.
In Q3, Tesla delivered 435,059 vehicles, which was nearly 7% lower than deliveries in Q2.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/18/te...ev-price-cuts/

Nothing says good times like cutting prices and seeing lower sales. Truth, in fact I really can't blame this on Musk and Tesla. There is no good news in this economy for anyone. My companies sales have tanked way more that Tesla's and my vendor prices are up and margins are down.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

You mean this third quarter report?

Tesla Q3 profit falls 44% on EV price cuts
Tesla attributed its fallen profitability margin largely to its reduced pricing of vehicles. In the third quarter, Tesla cut prices for its Model S and Model X luxury vehicles by as much as $18,500 per car.
In Q3, Tesla delivered 435,059 vehicles, which was nearly 7% lower than deliveries in Q2.
https://techcrunch.com/2023/10/18/te...ev-price-cuts/

Nothing says good times like cutting prices and seeing lower sales. Truth, in fact I really can't blame this on Musk and Tesla. There is no good news in this economy for anyone. My companies sales have tanked way more that Tesla's and my vendor prices are up and margins are down.

Yes. Part of the strategy is to leverage Tesla's profit per car advantage and put pressure on competitors. I think it was a good decision. As expected overall revenue has dropped from that plus the production hiccup of the Model 3.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Yes. Part of the strategy

Man I got to give you respect as a true believer.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Man I got to give you respect as a true believer.

I think the entire auto industry (ICE/EV) has major headwinds ahead with the economy/interest rates, etc. We will see. I am not too worried about Tesla going out of business anytime soon. With robotics and energy and possibly the long promised but not yet delivered FSD, Tesla has some major opportunities for growth.

[Car-Addicted]

I wouldn't worry too much about Tesla and Musk going out of business.

Tesla's Dojo Supercomputer: A Paradigm Shift In Supercomputing?
https://www.forbes.com/sites/stevend...h=67dc94357bc2

I'm thinking he will have "FU" money for some time.