[The HACK]

Originally Posted by pikkagtr

1999 F20C
2.0L 9000rpm
11.7 compression
250 n/a HP @8600 rpm
Only available in the Honda s2000
Held the n/a specific output for 10 years
Bespoke enough for you ?
$29k



If Toyota wanted to they could
The Supra was never really what they wanted to sell
It's the nx300 and Corollas and rav4s and CHRs
Supra brings people into show rooms and they drive home in the Camry

Is that the ONLY inline 4 block Honda has ever built? Like there's no other inline 4 blocks using similar technology before it, or hasn't had an inline 4 built for a while and it's the first inline 4 with V-TECH that they designed and built?

NO.

It's a highly tuned variant of Honda's F20 architecture. Just like the S54 is a variant of the S52 Euro block, Honda didn't have to design the F20C from scratch. They had an existing architecture that evolved into he F20C. Just like BMW's E46 M3 has a "bespoke" engine in that the S54 was only used in the E46 M3 and sparingly in the Z3 M and Z4 M. The block, architecture, design, all existed long before the F20C was placed in the S2000.

Is it unique? Yeah. But if you want to claim that Toyota can just wave a magic wand and a new xJZ platform will magically appear?

I've got some marshland to sell you in Florida.

[NCThreePedals]

So did anyone actually order one? ETA when they hit the streets?

[Red Bread]

The S54 is in absolutely no way as bespoke as the S2000's motor. Not that this has anything to do with the Zupra.

TVR has a bespoke straight six. Seems like if they could figure that out, the Camry Brigade probably could have sorted something out too.

[pukicabuki]

The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.

That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by pukicabuki

The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.

That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics.

Based on, but only slightly. Fiber reinforced block, different liners, longitudinal mounting. It wasn't like they just used an existing block and stuck new heads on it.

[pukicabuki]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Based on, but only slightly. Fiber reinforced block, different liners, longitudinal mounting. It wasn't like they just used an existing block and stuck new heads on it.

You're point?

All of those things are modifying an existing, and more widely used, platform to build upon. Fiber reinforcing and liners are the same thing. FRM is a form of sleaving but it's a compromise between expensive Nikasil coating and a low cost cast iron liner. It was also used in a number of other Honda performance engines. Not exactly unique. Machining a bell housing to mount a RWD transmission isn't earth shattering either.

Creating a low production engine from scratch is a completely different undertaking both in engineering and cost. The casting process alone for the block would make it cost prohibitive for anything short of a super car.

I'm actually a huge fan of the F20c. I swapped one into an AE86 and loved it. Its a great engine, but it's far from bespoke.

[zx10guy]

Hope this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/s...-their-engines

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Hope this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/s...-their-engines

That thing is cursed. Torque dip, lean out at high rpm, and now this.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by pukicabuki

The F20c was based on Honda's F series, which was widely used in Preludes and Accords starting in the mid 90s. It ranged from 1.8 - 2.3L. Putting a performance head and stronger internal components into and existing block is hardly bespoke.

That's essentially the same story for all of the great performance engines, short of exotics.

The F Series in those cars you mentioned HAVE ZERO, NOT ONE IOTA related to the F20C.. They are similar to the H series of engines and from the 90s.

The F20C was a clean slate and is only in the S2000, they designed the K Series Motor eventually based on the F20C ( They share a ton just has traditional VTEC vs i )

K = F20 w/I-VTEC more or less ( same design ) but the F20 has no other Honda motor equivalent.. Just like Nissans VR38 which is hand built for the GTR.

People can hate Hondas but most of their engines are second to none, Even the B-Series which the K replaced is still a huge force to be reckoned with.

[Nextbooost]

Originally Posted by The HACK

If they didn't source an inline 6 from BMW, WHO could they possibly source an inline 6 from?

Or would the fanbase rather they put in a V-6 from their run of the mill cars?

Anyone suggesting that Toyota should have built a bespoken engine for the new Supra is smoking crack.

Build their own like Benz or freaking jaguar just did.

Lexus needs some engine choices, a new I6 would be greatly appreciated. Also their pickups and trucks could seriously use an beefy I6. Id love to see a lexus LC with a 400/500hp I6.

Id much rather a true ft1 supra with their own engine, a real toyota then the abomination they are peddling.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Nextbooost

Build their own like Benz or freaking jaguar just did.

Lexus needs some engine choices, a new I6 would be greatly appreciated. Also their pickups and trucks could seriously use an beefy I6. Id love to see a lexus LC with a 400/500hp I6.

Id much rather a true ft1 supra with their own engine, a real toyota then the abomination they are peddling.

Toyota also makes another Killer I6 overseas that has made even more power than the 2JZ its called the 1FZFE and its made over 1800HP DOHC 4.5 liters (2J has as well, Just another engine they make ).

So without a doubt Toyota has the skill and the know how x1000 they just cheaped out which is strange for the worlds largest auto manufacturer.

[supra93]

[supra93]

All of the vents do appear to be functional on the GT4 car.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by supra93

All of the vents do appear to be functional on the GT4 car.

Just because they have holes in them doesn't mean they are functional/needed.

[M Coupe]

I am going to get a red one, or a gray one. It is a decently priced BMW and I like the styling. Abomination? Heck no.

[Teutonic]

I wonder what BMW got from Toyota because all I see so far is BMW. I also find stupid to give Toyota the full BMW interior. Kind of dumb...

Anyway, this one is a Coupe which is a very smart move, there are more Coupe people than Cabrio people, but BMW doesnt care, right?
In top, if this is build by and has a Toyota reliability, many will jump on it.

[QUiKSR20]

Originally Posted by Tracus

I wonder what BMW got from Toyota because all I see so far is BMW. I also find stupid to give Toyota the full BMW interior. Kind of dumb...

Anyway, this one is a Coupe which is a very smart move, there are more Coupe people than Cabrio people, but BMW doesnt care, right?
In top, if this is build by and has a Toyota reliability, many will jump on it.

The reliability should be the same as the BMW that shares the same components, What BMW may have gotten is lots of Hybrid Tech where I believe Toyota is a leader ( all my opinion, I truly have no idea what they got ).

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Hope this isn't a sign of things to come:

http://www.thedrive.com/news/26848/s...-their-engines

That’s not good. With how complex or specialized working on BMW engines can be these days it may be a sign of things to come. BMW likes to over or re-engineer things in its own ways. Simple becomes complex, so it very well may be...

[supra93]

New Toyota GR Supra Races off the Production Line

https://global.toyota/en/newsroom/toyota/27289985.html

In early March, the first production version of the all-new Toyota GR Supra rolled off the production line at the Magna Steyr, Graz Plant in Austria. But customers shouldn't get their hopes up of getting their hands on the first production model―this one is already taken!

The rights to the phantom matte gray Supra, VIN 20201―"2020" for the year, "1" marking the first production model out of the production line―with red mirror caps, matte black wheels, red interior with carbon-fiber inserts, and an engine cover signed by Toyota Motor Corp. President Akio Toyoda, was previously auctioned for charity at the 48th Annual Barrett-Jackson Auction at West World Scottsdale in Arizona. The winning bid for was for $2.1 million, and the proceeds of the first of the fifth-generation Supra went to support the American Heart Association (AHA) and the Bob Woodruff Foundation (BWF).

On the line-off of the Supra, Toyota Chief Engineer Tetsuya Tada said
"Without the support of all the various people and parties related to the Supra, this day could not have come true. Partnerships come in many forms, and our partnership with BMW has been a new experience for both of our companies. We appreciate the enthusiasm and aspiration of everyone that has helped Supra become one of the most anticipated and exciting cars coming out this year. Thanks to you, I am proud to say that Supra has turned out to be a very exciting car.

Nobi Nakamura, project chief designer for the Supra, also commented, saying
"It was exciting to see the first Supra roll off the line! Though we had our set of challenges, we believe this Supra will show the passion, thoughtfulness, and commitment that we have all had as we designed this iconic sports car and can't wait to see both old and new Supra fans all over the world on the roads soon."

To prepare for the Supra line-off, Toyota engineers traveled to the Graz Plant several times and performed quality checks together with the production members.

The Supra is slated to go on sales from around the spring of 2019 in several countries worldwide.

GR Supra development team, at Magna Steyr Graz Plant

About Magna Steyr
Magna Steyr was founded in 2001 as a subsidiary of Magna International, a major auto parts manufacturer established in 1950. The company consigns development and assembly from auto manufacturers and signed a contract with BMW concerning production consignment in 2001. Forecast for 2019 sales is $40.2 - $42.4 billion.

[See5]

Originally Posted by QUiKSR20

Toyota also makes another Killer I6 overseas that has made even more power than the 2JZ its called the 1FZFE and its made over 1800HP DOHC 4.5 liters (2J has as well, Just another engine they make ).

So without a doubt Toyota has the skill and the know how x1000 they just cheaped out which is strange for the worlds largest auto manufacturer.

That's not cheaping out, that's just common sense from the manufacturer perspective. There's no way I'd develop an entirely new engine family just for this car unless it was modular and available for use across multiple platforms. That's ridiculous especially in a time when profit margins are steadily declining.

People forget that the 1JZ and 2JZ had multiple homes. That wouldn't be the case with a one off engine.

[supra93]

I think these look so much better than than those fugly two tone wheels.

[Red Bread]

Yeah, anything is better than the awful wheels BMW has been sourcing recently.