[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

It'll take 30 years to build a reactor and get it functioning I'm told. The opposition to these is likely to be much more than to EV uptake. An accident one of them will really cause mass extinction while we fight climate change to prevent mass extinction.

They say that in Canada it takes about 10 years to build a nuclear power plant and get it on line, that's once construction begins. The other issue with this is the environmental assessments, getting approval, permits, funding and then dealing with the anti nukes and NIMBY's. I don't think any of that work has even started so how far off are we, your guess is as good as mine.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

What is a 'DER' anybody, all I know is that DER was a tv rental company in the sixties and seventies..

In "Leave the World Behind" , a Cyberattack knocks out all the Tesla's !
How Tesla's become killer machines !
Last night , I watched the movie. It was great

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

They say that in Canada it takes about 10 years to build a nuclear power plant and get it on line, that's once construction begins. The other issue with this is the environmental assessments, getting approval, permits, funding and then dealing with the anti nukes and NIMBY's. I don't think any of that work has even started so how far off are we, your guess is as good as mine.

Cart before horse. Even musk figured out SC network before mass EV car sales and we have a poor grid a poor charging infrastructure poor clean energy sources. A ban, fines and a prayer is what's around.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

In "Leave the World Behind" , a Cyberattack knocks out all the Tesla's !
How Tesla's become killer machines !
Last night , I watched the movie. It was great

Definitely on my next film to watch list

[Torgus]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

What is a 'DER' anybody, all I know is that DER was a tv rental company in the sixties and seventies..

A quick google search of DER shows up exactly what they are. Faster than asking on a forum. It's literally the 1st thing that pops up. lmgtfy.com

Types of DERs:

Solar
Wind
Hydro
CHP
Fuel Cells
Microgrids
Diesel or Natural Gas Generators
NG Turbines
Stand Alone ESS
EVs

this list goes on.

DERs have been used to reduce demand charges on industrial buildings for over 40 years, probably longer. Also known as peak shaving which can save a building hundred of thousands a year in energy costs.

DERs can also help with power quality issues which can be a big deal if you are affected by it. DERs are not just Solar and Wind, far from it.

If you are familiar with energy generation the term DER has been used for the last 35+ years: https://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy02osti/31570.pdf

The fact anyone wants to speak about electrical generation, the national grid, and what is 'best' for America's electrical generation & grid and are unfamiliar with what a DER is...interesting.

DERs are required for our national grid. It's not some boogey man. It's not a left vs. right thing. It's not solar & wind. DERs are part of the solution not the solution. Just like EVs, ICE, Solar, Wind, Nuke, Coal, etc. it's not like 1 is the solution to everything which is how our monkey brains like to think the world works.

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

The biggest issue is it is too cheap to dispose of solar panels in a land fill than is it to recycle then. This needs to be addressed.

Can you name a manufactured energy generating resource that makes you more money recycling it than throwing it away? We don't recycle coal or nuclear waste as an example.

Very few items make more money recycling than throwing away I believe. Aluminum cans, glass, cardboard, PCBs, and scrap metal are about it as far as I know. I could be wrong.

The good news is you can recycle solar panels and they last 50+ years. So it takes a long while before you need to recycle them...but you are correct solar panels are not currently inexpensive to recycle. Given how inexpensive and abundant the raw components of a solar panel are it begs the question to just bury them in a big hole I joke.

It is good Solar is just 1 part of the DER and energy generation solutions for our grid. It is not the only solution. People don't have to hate it because they are right wing or listen to fox news. Solar has always been associated with the left. Probably always will be. Just one piece of the puzzle.

[M5Rick]

I've read about something like this before, instead of declaring war a cyberattack that commandeers EV's may be the little known secret weapon of an opposing enemy.

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=Torgus;30716933]A quick google search of DER shows up exactly what they are. Faster than asking on a forum. It's literally the 1st thing that pops up. lmgtfy.com

-----------------------
I usually do but on this occasion I was too lazy to look and google is too easy a way.

[Car-Addicted]

So many opinions so few facts

Deaths per terawatt-hour of energy production deaths per terawatt-hour
Energy source. 2021
Brown coal 32.72
Coal 24.62
Oil 18.43
Biomass 4.63
Gas 2.82
Hydropower 1.30
Wind 0.04
Nuclear 0.03
Solar 0.02

https://www.energyforhumanity.org/en...ety-the-facts/

The Simpson's is a cartoon and Jane Fonda is a idiot.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

The utility or the program manager installs remotely controlled disconnect switches on the air conditioning (AC) unit or electric water heater of participating homeowners

What could possibly go wrong
I know lets let the state that has budget deficit of 68 Billion determine our energy strategy. Again I repeat, What could possibly go wrong

[Murf the Surf]

[QUOTE=Efthreeoh;30717020]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Here's a quote from Cummins' DER web page. It should give you comfort...

"Demand response resources are electric loads which can be shaped, reduced or disconnected on demand. In some regions, for example, homeowners have the option to participate in demand-response programs. The utility or the program manager installs remotely controlled disconnect switches on the air conditioning (AC) unit or electric water heater of participating homeowners, for example. Each individual AC unit or water heater can thus be switched off as needed to reduce the load on the electric grid. Larger virtual DERs aggregate several hundred or thousand homes. The result is a resource comparable in size and function to a small power plant."

They offered this in Ontario Canada this past year you got a "free" smart thermostat to take control of your AC and were also offering a $75 gift card for anyone who signed up.....my understanding is that the response was underwhelming.

[Car-Addicted]

Now who here trusts Google NEST and Amazon Echo to not be involved in data sharing and government compliance in a "emergency"?

[M5Rick]

[QUOTE=Murf the Surf;30717114]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

They offered this in Ontario Canada this past year you got a "free" smart thermostat to take control of your AC and were also offering a $75 gift card for anyone who signed up.....my understanding is that the response was underwhelming.

So what I can understand is that its a sort of 'big brother' that will cut off the power to the air con motor, in times of huge demand, I can understand why few took the offer up.

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Now who here trusts Google NEST and Amazon Echo to not be involved in data sharing and government compliance in a "emergency"?

I know that gogle may pick and choose what organisations go on the site and doesn't allow some that go against some gob i ment polcies.

[tturedraider]

I am a pretty big fan of residential solar panels. Despite government and industry rebates offered to install them I am constantly amazed when I go to Arizona that every house does not have them. Of all the states where you might expect them to proliferate I would say Arizona tops the list. I imagine Nevada would be next and, of course, California and Texas would be high on the list among many others. And yet almost no one has them. It would appear consumers just don’t care.

I think they are butt ugly, but it would not bother me to have them on the back side of my roof. I would be interested in putting them on the roof of my condo building, but the association as a whole has no interest.

[Alfisti]

Solar exploded in the UK (of all bloody places) a few years ago and it has absolutely gone mental in Australia once the price came down enough.

[KRS_SN]

Had an interesting chat with the guy who installs solar panels locally.
Given electricity prices he reckoned a typical domestic installation would take 7 years in the UK to break even when installation costs are factored in. I could be moving house so I've decided against this. Also it's very seasonal apparently and not a lot of use in winter months due to the angle of the sun during daylight hours.

[Murf the Surf]

We looked into Solar panels, our roof doesn't face the right direction so would have to put a big panel out on our back yard. The price we got was about $40K in stalled, there are some government rebates but not that much. My monthly hydro bull is around $200 so assuming hydro bill went to zero (it won't because we still have to pay delivery charges and debt retirement charge to the utility) it would take about 20 years to break even. I won't be in this house that long.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

We looked into Solar panels, our roof doesn't face the right direction so would have to put a big panel out on our back yard. The price we got was about $40K in stalled, there are some government rebates but not that much. My monthly hydro bull is around $200 so assuming hydro bill went to zero (it won't because we still have to pay delivery charges and debt retirement charge to the utility) it would take about 20 years to break even. I won't be in this house that long.

Yes, I think this is the case for many folks probably at least as much as lack of interest/motivation. You have to be pretty motivated to get everything in place to make it happen and if the money doesn’t work that kills the motivation pretty quickly.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

We looked into Solar panels, our roof doesn't face the right direction so would have to put a big panel out on our back yard. The price we got was about $40K in stalled, there are some government rebates but not that much. My monthly hydro bull is around $200 so assuming hydro bill went to zero (it won't because we still have to pay delivery charges and debt retirement charge to the utility) it would take about 20 years to break even. I won't be in this house that long.

Everything here is insanely expensive compared to the UK

[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Everything here is insanely expensive compared to the UK

The UK used to be expensive compared to Canada. It's just sad really.

[KRS_SN]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

The UK used to be expensive compared to Canada. It's just sad really.

Not much growth not much inflation just flat lining and dipping in real term economic affordability in general. Hence I hear from friends here who visit there frequently that compared to transatlantic counterparts food clothing etc are rather affordable overall here.

[Kponti]

Originally Posted by KRS_SN

For what it worth I have driven/been driven tesla on autopilot and my bmw's have driving assistant professional. No phantom braking that I've experienced in the BMW(not yet over 12k miles) and the smoothness and the refinement of the system is better than the tesla. The point I'm making is that we must take the claims with regards to EV with a pinch of salt given how robotaxis and boring company and FSD etc..hype and social media pump ups.

I have had 3 BMWs, 2 AMGs and 3 Teslas over the last 4 years and none have had phantom braking. The self-driving on the Teslas has been miles better and significantly more functional than the ones on my BMWs or AMGs.
This does not count the Teslas with FSD in my near family (siblings), none of which have has phantom braking either.