[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by The HACK

I dunno man. The more I see it the more I wonder why anyone lusting over this car wouldn't just pick up a lightly used Z4 M Coupe for 2/3 the price. It's got the same power output in a fantastic naturally aspirated engine, down SIGNIFICANTLY on torque, sure, but 150 lbs lighter and nearly as stiff.

And it can be had with a 6 speed manual.

A clean, less than 50,000 mile example can be had for about $35K. If you squint a little the two car's proportions are nearly indistinguishable.

Not sure if BMW has done any better on this, but when my Z3 M Coupe got to 14 years old, parts support was pathetic. Mostly coupe specific parts, but even M specific parts were either not available or a long wait to get them from Germany. Owning an older, rare-ish BMW has a lot more risk than just having an M3 or just about any Porsche or Mercedes.

It's also hard to overlook advances in passive safety that just weren't around when the Z4MC was out. And tech and convenience features. I think if I were using the wayback machine I'd grab a 997.2 from that era or a Cayman R. The small trunk of the Z4MC and high door sills never worked for my preferences. It sure was more predictable at the limits than the Z3MC though.

[Germanauto]

Nice looking car.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Not sure if BMW has done any better on this, but when my Z3 M Coupe got to 14 years old, parts support was pathetic. Mostly coupe specific parts, but even M specific parts were either not available or a long wait to get them from Germany. Owning an older, rare-ish BMW has a lot more risk than just having an M3 or just about any Porsche or Mercedes.

It's also hard to overlook advances in passive safety that just weren't around when the Z4MC was out. And tech and convenience features. I think if I were using the wayback machine I'd grab a 997.2 from that era or a Cayman R. The small trunk of the Z4MC and high door sills never worked for my preferences. It sure was more predictable at the limits than the Z3MC though.

Hence the GENIUS that is the Z4 M Coupe. Everything on that car was parts binned. There's only a handful of Z4 M Coupe specific parts. The front control arms are from the E46 ZHP. The rear suspension is entirely lifted off of the E46 M3. The rest of the body panels are all Z4 except for the roof, hood, and hatch. All internal parts and pieces are all interchangeable with the run of the mill Z4. There's NOTHING specific to the Z4 M Coupe except the steering rack (rebuildable), ECU (can use aftermarket), and the aforementioned body parts (some are available through aftermarket as well).

Yes the car is old. But nothing that breaks on the car today that can't be fixed using aftermarket or OE parts, and since the E46 and Z4s were plentiful, aftermarket support tis strong enough that you CAN still get replacement parts easily. The only thing I've encountered that gave me some trouble, was surprisingly the sunglasses holder (exclusive to Z4 Coupes).

The advances in passive safety all takes away the joy of actual driving. Lane change assist, autonomous driving...etc, none of that belong on a SPORTS CAR. Neither does electronic assisted steering (the Z4 M Coupe has the Servotronic hydraulic steering rack from the E36 M3, except redesigned to have a much faster ratio). All the pertinent safety features, like curtain airbags, weight sensitive airbags, ABS, DSC, battery disconnect, etc, they're all present on the Z4 M, and the newer cars aren't any more "advanced" in those fundamental driver's aid.

I do concede the Z4 M Coupe has a trunk that's not designed to be used by normal humans, especially with that huge hump that houses the battery. To be honest, the Corvette pictured below has 11 year's worth of technological advancement, and the only thing I miss between the two cars (from a technology and feature perspective*) is Apple CarPlay.

* Well...That and almost 2x the torque (465ft*lbs vs 265ft*lbs) that comes on at 1,000 rpm vs 3,500 rpm.

[Red Bread]

Nice looking pair. My issues came down to dumb things. Rain rails existed for non sunroof cars, but they barely built any of those. My hot and cold air knob only worked at both extremes, but they could only offer a non M replacement, which seemed stupid. The rear license plate holder became a non existent part. Little things, but it got annoying.

I do wildly miss the steering feel of that thing. Such a perfect HPS setup, outside of non assisted setups, I've never felt better.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Nice looking pair. My issues came down to dumb things. Rain rails existed for non sunroof cars, but they barely built any of those. My hot and cold air knob only worked at both extremes, but they could only offer a non M replacement, which seemed stupid. The rear license plate holder became a non existent part. Little things, but it got annoying.

I do wildly miss the steering feel of that thing. Such a perfect HPS setup, outside of non assisted setups, I've never felt better.

I suspect, that the Z3 M Coupes had a lot more of its own unique parts than the Z4 M Coupes. Everything aft of the A pillar on the Z3 M Coupe is different from the run of the mill Z3 Roadster. On the Z4 M, only the roof and hatches are unique, the bulkhead et al are actually all common parts with Z4 roadster (if I'm not mistaken). All the other underpinnings, except for the ECU, are all common parts.

Unlike the Z3 Coupe, where a skunk team of engineers at BMW dreamed up the scopes, the Z4 Coupe was actually a design exercise done by Magna Styer (sound familiar? Same company building the NEW Z4 and Yote.) to show BMW that a new Z4 Coupe can be assembled using mostly existing parts. Heck even run of the mill Z4 roadster rear quarter panels is basically hung on and interchangeable to the Z4 Coupe, and they're the same between the M and non-M.

All the new Zupra goodness, 2/3rd the price, in a 6 speed manual. None of the stuff you don't need (like fake vents that doesn't go anywhere).

[supra93]

[MR_X]

Originally Posted by WestRace

I am still wondering if there will be a market for this type of car - small 2 seater sport coupe. First, most millennials are into CUV, hybrid and electrics. Secondly for those who want some sport coupe performance like the Supra they can get that it in any typical 2+2 two doors such as the 435 or C class coupe with almost the same performance as the Supra but in a much more practical configuration - more seatings and bigger trunks. Thirdly, for the 1980's generation who were into RX7 and the likes, well they are probably too old now. Also the Supra is not cheap. If it were in the 40K range, I imagine it would have some success.

Originally Posted by WestRace

Tell that to my neighbor. The guy got kids to feed. Not sure if he got time for the Supra.

Kids never stopped me. Actually some of the best memories my kids have and enjoy is me taking them for rides in the RX-7s. Just because you have kids, doesn’t mean you have to stop enjoying life the way you used to. Of course you have to adjust, but don’t adjust so much that you can’t share your life style with your kids. I’m 42 and I have 3 kids. 2 of them just left the nest. My youngest (8 years old) enjoys going out in the M4 as well.

Was considering the new Supra but this Supra is just the name slapped on a BMW. Besides, the wife got me the M4 as a retirement present so I was not going to complain.

[supra93]

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Reviews compilation: https://www.supramkv.com/threads/202...pilation.1777/

[Ickdeep]

Kbb's review

[supra93]

[Humdizzle]

its what i expected.

an upscale toyota 86. (not that there's anything wrong with that, I had one before trading in for an f30 and then f80 for a daily). But its not a supra.

A GTR had hype and legend, and it came back as a supercar killer with the R35. It lived up to all the hype. The supra is coming back as a 370z competitor. When it should be a GTR / NSX competitor

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Reviews compilation: https://www.supramkv.com/threads/202...pilation.1777/

Common theme seems to be, it is one hell of a drivers car.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

its what i expected.

an upscale toyota 86. (not that there's anything wrong with that, I had one before trading in for an f30 and then f80 for a daily). But its not a supra.

A GTR had hype and legend, and it came back as a supercar killer with the R35. It lived up to all the hype. The supra is coming back as a 370z competitor. When it should be a GTR / NSX competitor

Reading some of the reviews, it looks to be a 718 Cayman S competitor. It handles that good and has similar performance numbers.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

its what i expected.

an upscale toyota 86. (not that there's anything wrong with that, I had one before trading in for an f30 and then f80 for a daily). But its not a supra.

A GTR had hype and legend, and it came back as a supercar killer with the R35. It lived up to all the hype. The supra is coming back as a 370z competitor. When it should be a GTR / NSX competitor

Let's not forget that the A40 and A60 were upscaled Celicas.

The Supra competed with cars like the 300ZX, 3000GT, and RX7. And before people jump in with "it was expensive in the 90s" comments, yes it was, and that was partly due to the rising yen and the exchange rate. The car was cheaper in it's homemarket and that's where they sold a majority of the A80s. 31,575 units to be exact compared to 11,446 units for the US.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

Reading some of the reviews, it looks to be a 718 Cayman S competitor. It handles that good and has similar performance numbers.

the 86 was a boxster/cayman competitor. in fact chris harris did a review and he placed the 86 ahead of the 986 cayman and 370z.

the mkiv supra was a 911 competitor.


the new supra is a good car. but its not a supra. its like having a 340 m sport and saying you have an M car.

[supra93]

So here is another way of looking at it. For the US, the 3.0 Supra is the equivalent of the NA A80. I have been told by a number of people that the GRMN Supra will be the modern day TT A80. We're just going to have to wait around 2+ years for it, and to expect a price tag of around $70k-$80k+. But what about the 4 banger Zupra? That's just for the EU and Japan to sell to the mass / taxes and emissions regulations.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

the 86 was a boxster/cayman competitor. in fact chris harris did a review and he placed the 86 ahead of the 986 cayman and 370z.

the mkiv supra was a 911 competitor.


the new supra is a good car. but its not a supra. its like having a 340 m sport and saying you have an M car.

No one shopping for a $30k 86 is going to even consider a $60k+ Cayman/Boxster and vice versa.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by supra93

So here is another way of looking at it. For the US, the 3.0 Supra is the equivalent of the NA A80. I have been told by a number of people that the GRMN Supra will be the modern day TT A80. We're just going to have to wait around 2+ years for it, and to expect a price tag of around $70k-$80k+. But what about the 4 banger Zupra? That's just for the EU and Japan to sell to the mass / taxes and emissions regulations.

If this is true, I wonder what engine Toyota will put in a modern day TT A80. I don't see BMW allowing Toyota to have their new S58 but the S55 could be possible.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by alex2364

If this is true, I wonder what engine Toyota will put in a modern day TT A80. I don't see BMW allowing Toyota to have their new S58 but the S55 could be possible.

Good question. Nothing concrete that I have heard of, but there have been so many speculation from the S58, S55, Toyota heavy revised B58, and even to a Toyota in house drivetrain (most least likely imo). And of course this all depends on how well the current 3.0 Supra sells.

An off topic tidbit. In 97 Toyota was already in the early process of developing a new Supra. However, because of low sales from the A80 the project was quickly dropped. I recall rumors and reports at the time that it would have been pretty much a hard top reskin Lexus SC430 and offered in both V6 and V8.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by alex2364

No one shopping for a $30k 86 is going to even consider a $60k+ Cayman/Boxster and vice versa.

no one shopping for a 180k 911 turbo back in 2010 would have considered a $80k GTR either. But the cars still ran neck and neck and had similar lap times. both 6 cylinder, awd, boosted, dct, 2+2.

[supra93]