[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

no one shopping for a 180k 911 turbo back in 2010 would have considered a $80k GTR either. But the cars still ran neck and neck and had similar lap times. both 6 cylinder, awd, boosted, dct, 2+2.

Thanks for proving my point!

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

no one shopping for a 180k 911 turbo back in 2010 would have considered a $80k GTR either. But the cars still ran neck and neck and had similar lap times. both 6 cylinder, awd, boosted, dct, 2+2.

Couldn’t you compare A80/90 the same way? Both 6 cylinder, rwd, boosted, auto (lol)

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

I think the new Supra is a M2 competitor to a certain degree... at least for me. I almost this this comparison deserves it own thread.

[supra93]

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/how...-toyota-supra/

At the launch of the new A90 Toyota GR Supra, chief engineer Tetsuya Tada detailed the car's rocky start in life

17 years after the MkIV version went out of production, there is - at last - a new Toyota Supra. But early on in the joint venture between BMW and Toyota, which has also given us a new Z4, the odds were stacked against both cars. A well-timed change in management was key to the whole endeavour, as explained by Supra chief engineer Tetsuya Tada at the launch of the car in Madrid.

The A90 Toyota GR Supra’s story can be traced back to a phone call Tada-san received during the launch of the GT86 in May 2012. He was to be dispatch to BMW’s headquarters in Munich to discuss a collaboration.

“At that time nothing was specified about what car we’d be working on - there was nothing said about it being a sports car,” he said, adding, “It was just a feasibility study.”

Tada-san, however, already had in mind exactly what the potential project could be. “On my way to Munich on the plane, I distinctively understood that this was a message for me to make the new Supra”. For him, it was all about the engine. “The heritage of the Supra is the inline-six, and at that time the only manufacturer with a high-performance inline-six engine was BMW,” he said.

While launching GT86, it was clear to Tada-san that among dealers, fans, and many others, the appetite for a new Supra was huge. Joining forces with BMW was a way to quench the thirst.

“I had a good feeling about the meeting so on the way back I wrote a really easy-going report towards [Toyota] headquarters that said we might be able to do something because it was such a nice atmosphere,” he recalled, but concluded, “Boy, that was a mistake!”

A year into the negotiations, no progress had been made, leaving BMW and Toyota at an impasse. Tetsuya Tada had committed himself to making a “pure sports car” to succeed the MkIV Supra, but the then-development boss of BMW, Dr Herbert Diess, was doubtful about the business case.

While understanding Tada-san’s urge to make a new Supra, Diess was keen to steer him away from pure sports cars to more profitable options. The key moment came went Dr Diess left BMW to joining VW.

BMW management protocol meant Diess’ subordinates went too, with replacement Klaus Frölich bringing in his own team of people. “This change had been pivotal in making this car happen because the guys under Mr Frölich had been crazy car guys,” Tada-san said. “They really took on to what we were trying to achieve…This is when it [the project] turned to the better for us.”

From here, everything “progressed quickly”. It was soon decided that BMW would make a roadster and Toyota a coupe, inspired in part by Porsche having the Boxster and Cayman siblings in its range. BMW was going to gun for the Boxster, while Toyota’s target was the Cayman.

The pair were to be built on a new, joint platform with a very short wheelbase, a wide track and a low centre-of-gravity.

After BMW’s “extensive simulation work” showed that the intended dimensions would work, a 2-series based test mule with a shortened wheelbase and widened track dubbed ‘Full Runner’ was built. After significant testing all across Europe, the Z4/Supra in this form was given the go-ahead.

This set the platform and the “suspension elements” in stone, after which point all ties - design, R&D, the lot - were cut between BMW and Toyota, allowing the two parties to go their separate ways and create two different vehicles based on the same ingredients.

The resulting cars, the Z4 and the GR Supra, are finally here, but they almost never happened.

[Humdizzle]

Originally Posted by alex2364

Thanks for proving my point!

im not saying the cars have different shoppers, thats a given. im saying the supra should have set its sights on the 911. not a cayman. A cayman is too low a standard for a gtr, nsx, and supra. a cayman is something for a 'celica' or 2-series bmw to take care of. not a toyota flagship.

back in 1997 the supra was outlapping the 911 carrera S and NSX. By inflation adjustment it was worth $90k. Now its competing with base caymans/boxsters and Z4s.

[supra93]

[10"]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

im not saying the cars have different shoppers, thats a given. im saying the supra should have set its sights on the 911. not a cayman. A cayman is too low a standard for a gtr, nsx, and supra. a cayman is something for a 'celica' or 2-series bmw to take care of. not a toyota flagship.

back in 1997 the supra was outlapping the 911 carrera S and NSX. By inflation adjustment it was worth $90k. Now its competing with base caymans/boxsters and Z4s.

The Supra is supposed to be it's own thing; competing against the Nissan Z and RX7 primarily in the Japanese market for small sports cars and this was the case since the late 70s. Unfortunately the Nissan Z is irrelevant these days and Mazda has no sports car.

The Supra isn't supposed to be aspiring to be any Porsche or german car. This new Supra is nothing but a cheap marketing exercise. A gutless modern german car with a crappy automatic gearbox.

Sales are going to be pitiful...Toyota really dropped the ball here.

[supra93]

^Regardless of how you feel personally, the car is sold out in 2 of the major markets.

Reviews for the EU model.

https://www.topgear.com/car-reviews/toyota/supra

[MOBF10]

Ugly car. Does the old supra no justice.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by MOBF10

Ugly car. Does the old supra no justice.

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I think this Supra looks great and the last Supra was ugly.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by MOBF10

Ugly car. Does the old supra no justice.

The Supra definitely looks much better in person.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by 10"

[This new Supra is nothing but a cheap marketing exercise. A gutless modern german car with a crappy automatic gearbox.

Sales are going to be pitiful...Toyota really dropped the ball here.

Have you watched any of the reviews? They're pretty universally positive.

Have you driven a car with the ZF 8-speed? It's arguably the best transmission short of a PDK.

Sales are going to exceed supply.

[XMetal]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Sales are going to exceed supply.

This may be true for the first year or so. Then it will be like the 86/BRZ twin or worst - the 86/BRZ at least have an option for a manual. It's a hard sell, at least for me, without a manual.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by XMetal

This may be true for the first year or so. Then it will be like the 86/BRZ twin or worst - the 86/BRZ at least have an option for a manual. It's a hard sell, at least for me, without a manual.

Not for me. An auto that shifts like a DCT, but doesn't act like a paranoid, schizophrenic around town sounds good to me.

[supra93]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/202...ted-test.1788/

[Humdizzle]

it'll be like the dodge demon, gt350, brz etc. every talks about it, then the hype will die down soon. There isn't anything special about the car. Everyone is drawn to it by the name.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by Humdizzle

it'll be like the dodge demon, gt350, brz etc. every talks about it, then the hype will die down soon. There isn't anything special about the car. Everyone is drawn to it by the name.

Not me. I have never been a Supra fan. Actually the Supra name is a minor negative to this potential buyer.

[Red Bread]

Okay, someone is lying about listed power. It's quicker than an M2C and GT350.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by supra93

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/202...ted-test.1788/

3.8 sec...this thing has to putting down more than 335hp.

Interesting C&D test car came in 25lbs lighter than Toyota's official curb weight.

Pulled more g's than Cayman GTS and M2 in the skidpad.

[alex2364]

Much quicker than I was expecting.

[wdb]

Just wanted to get a post in on page 86.

[SakhirM4]

Originally Posted by wdb

Just wanted to get a post in on page 86.

You are very early. This is only page 48 on my PC