[calbears]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

Leather options, likely including doors and dash similar to the previous gen with stitching .. colors are tbd

2 full leather options:

Taupe grey/Deep Lagoon
Black/Violet

Both "individual" at $1500

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

These two are nothing more than clowns misrepresenting themselves as reviewers. Some may find them entertaining, but nobody should take anything they say seriously.

And you understand more than them?

Just stop. You are embarassing yourself.

Yes its entertainment, but they tried their upmost to not be negative or critcize.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

These two are nothing more than clowns misrepresenting themselves as reviewers. Some may find them entertaining, but nobody should take anything they say seriously.

It was an excellent review, I just wish they had used an m5c. TH guys are nice

[Moewron]

Originally Posted by masd79

It was an excellent review, I just wish they had used an m5c. TH guys are nice

Asking honestly and not attempting to be snarky, but- why? The competition versions of M cars are different cars than their non-comp versions, no? Would not be a direct comparison.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by Moewron

Asking honestly and not attempting to be snarky, but- why? The competition versions of M cars are different cars than their non-comp versions, no? Would not be a direct comparison.

From what I have heard bmw has said there will be no competition models for m5 as its specd to the highest. They did the same with m2 and the strategy worked, people are super happy too. And if they do some how surprise us, competition badging doesn’t make sense with hybrid, as they will most likely get more power from the electric part and thus increasing the weight and ruining the dynamics… so 🤷‍♂️

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by masd79

From what I have heard bmw has said there will be no competition models for m5 and I have heard that the engine tuning on this m5 is almost the same as a red label. And no one has been able to confirm a red label for m5. And finally this m5 is the top trim for current m5 so I think it’s apples to apples to compare the top previous to top current…

So, power wise the powertain is limited by torque on the ZF 8 speed.

Bmw can add more HP per say but torque without transmission modifications is at the OEM max. They could add HP and drop torque as the V8 as is makes less power(577hp) than the last gen base M5(600hp), nevermend the comp(617hp) or cs version(627hp).

With that they have room to play. A Comp doesn't require a bunch of power, 17hp similar to the last generation. Where the comp was different was in tuning of suspension and software.

Bmw would be dumb to not do a comp. People will pay for an upgrade in handling and feel.

I don't think the car needs more power... it needs more suspension and more feedback via the EPS, and addressing the wheel hop on launch.

We need more reviews with pro drivers on and off track with metrics to see if the car feels less capable but number wises is more capable in most ways absent the 0-60.

I think even with the weight this may stop better than the last gen M5.

Xm 60-0... 103-105 feet (6,033lbs)
M2 60-0.... 100-100 feet (3,800lbs)
M5 cs 60-0... 101 on PS4(4,080lbs)

[TheRealBob]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

And you understand more than them?

Just stop. You are embarassing yourself.

Yes its entertainment, but they tried their upmost to not be negative or critcize.

When you ask do I understand more than TH, I would ask you, do you understand why BMW has had to move in its present direction? Our warming planet should be priority number 1 for everybody. I get it that some portion of the population never will admit that "tree huggers" were correct decades ago. But, back to the review. The premise was spelled out in the first minute..."Department of Questionable Decisions", and the bottom-line was the M5 is "big, fat, and ugly". Looks are subjective, but BMW sales would indicate a large degree of buyer acceptance. The M5, and I owned an F90 for 6 years, isn't a nimble sports car. The majority of buyers want a mix of luxury, along with a large dose of straight-line acceleration. If you want something more engaging, buy an M3 or Z4 with a manual. We are in a transitional period, and BMW did what it had to do, to provide a fuel efficient and cost competitive vehicle, while trying to retain some of its heritage, and also help to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

I understand Throttle House plays to its subscribers, and their comedic comments and skits have garnered them a large viewership. Good for them, we need some fun mixed in with the chaos.

[Moewron]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I don't think the car needs more power... it needs more suspension and more feedback via the EPS, and addressing the wheel hop on launch.

We need more reviews with pro drivers on and off track with metrics to see if the car feels less capable, but number wise is more capable in most ways absent the 0-60.

I could not agree more. I've watched every original review I can find, and they are so contradictory-
One reviewer says it stops slowly; another says it stops really well.
One reviewer says there's too much body roll; another says there's barely any.
One reviewer says it's too heavy, and another says you can barely feel the weight once you adjust your turning/breaking.
One reviewer says the transmission upshifts too slowly, while another says the ZF is lightning-quick
One reviewer says the car's handling is poor, while another reviewer is just whipping and drifting the car around a narrow mountain road.

What I HAVE seen across a few reviews is people who aren't totally clear on how the M buttons are set up for them. Certainly not everyone, but based on that and the varied and contradictory conclusory statements, I'm not sure that they're all testing the cars with the same settings.

I can't wait to see people truly track this car and do an A-B test against equivalents. That's not the M5 buyer in me asking for that; that's the scientist in me.

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by Moewron

I could not agree more. I've watched every original review I can find, and they are so contradictory-
One reviewer says it stops slowly; another says it stops really well.
One reviewer says there's too much body roll; another says there's barely any.
One reviewer says it's too heavy, and another says you can barely feel the weight once you adjust your turning/breaking.
One reviewer says the transmission upshifts too slowly, while another says the ZF is lightning-quick
One reviewer says the car's handling is poor, while another reviewer is just whipping and drifting the car around a narrow mountain road.

What I HAVE seen across a few reviews is people who aren't totally clear on how the M buttons are set up for them. Certainly not everyone, but based on that and the varied and contradictory conclusory statements, I'm not sure that they're all testing the cars with the same settings.

I can't wait to see people truly track this car and do an A-B test against equivalents. That's not the M5 buyer in me asking for that; that's the scientist in me.

[CarlosM4]

Originally Posted by TheRealBob

When you ask do I understand more than TH, I would ask you, do you understand why BMW has had to move in its present direction? Our warming planet should be priority number 1 for everybody. I get it that some portion of the population never will admit that "tree huggers" were correct decades ago. But, back to the review. The premise was spelled out in the first minute..."Department of Questionable Decisions", and the bottom-line was the M5 is "big, fat, and ugly". Looks are subjective, but BMW sales would indicate a large degree of buyer acceptance. The M5, and I owned an F90 for 6 years, isn't a nimble sports car. The majority of buyers want a mix of luxury, along with a large dose of straight-line acceleration. If you want something more engaging, buy an M3 or Z4 with a manual. We are in a transitional period, and BMW did what it had to do, to provide a fuel efficient and cost competitive vehicle, while trying to retain some of its heritage, and also help to reduce our dependence on fossil fuels.

I understand Throttle House plays to its subscribers, and their comedic comments and skits have garnered them a large viewership. Good for them, we need some fun mixed in with the chaos.

I understand where BMW went, and have a post about that on "Really a M5?" thread, where Euro Emissions regulations were harsher before as they expected, therefore they moved quickly and adopted this half-baked hybrid solution, etc. I understand where BMW went fully, I am just sad at the fact they failed the execution.

Their takeway wasn't full negative, and they had praise for many aspects of the car, just that its no "longer" the nimble sports sedan. And yes I agree a M5 is never a nimble car, but it used to be "nimble" for its weight and size. The M5 G90 probably is for its weight, the trouble is that its too damn heavy.

The only thing I don't understand is, if you are concerned with a warming planet, why buy a V8 niche car? Honestly, just save the trouble and get a 550e or a I5 M60.
That makes no sense. And I think BMW as well believes that they. If they had no stupid emission rules, they would probably have kept a non hybrid V8 solution.

[TheRealBob]

Originally Posted by CarlosM4

The only thing I don't understand is, if you are concerned with a warming planet, why buy a V8 niche car? Honestly, just save the trouble and get a 550e or a I5 M60.
That makes no sense. And I think BMW as well believes that they. If they had no stupid emission rules, they would probably have kept a non hybrid V8 solution.

Guilty as charged, but hey, nobody is perfect. I felt somewhat justified because the wife drives an i4. Now I drive a straight-six '25 Z4 with the manual. It weighs 1,000 lbs. less than the M5, and keeps my 79 yr. old brain more engaged.

Emission rules for cars, planes, ships, and other emitters are far from stupid, which can't be said for many people stating otherwise.

[hb]

Originally Posted by Moewron

I could not agree more. I've watched every original review I can find, and they are so contradictory-
One reviewer says it stops slowly; another says it stops really well.
One reviewer says there's too much body roll; another says there's barely any.
One reviewer says it's too heavy, and another says you can barely feel the weight once you adjust your turning/breaking.
One reviewer says the transmission upshifts too slowly, while another says the ZF is lightning-quick
One reviewer says the car's handling is poor, while another reviewer is just whipping and drifting the car around a narrow mountain road.

What I HAVE seen across a few reviews is people who aren't totally clear on how the M buttons are set up for them. Certainly not everyone, but based on that and the varied and contradictory conclusory statements, I'm not sure that they're all testing the cars with the same settings.

I can't wait to see people truly track this car and do an A-B test against equivalents. That's not the M5 buyer in me asking for that; that's the scientist in me.

There is a reason why you see so many different opinions. Today, there is a mix of reviewers: traditional journalists (with or without track experience), Youtubers (same points as before), and content creators/influencers. So the skills level is different, the overall car experience is different and most importantly, there is always a small bias when you review a car, both from a design and driving perspective.

In the end, these reviews are a good starting point, but everyone should drive the car before buying one.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

I sold my F10 M5 as I was getting murdered in both taxes & fuel costs for daily driving.
I know it would be a different story in the US where automotive costs are tiny comparitively.
G90 addresses global climate regulation.
People can either accept that or not.
The M5 is having rocks thrown at it, mainly by Americans who just don’t care about emissions nor have to deal with climate regulation.
That’s fine if all one cares about it purity of the driving experience. I like that too but not to the extent I want my kids breathing terrible air.
G90 works for me even if there are compromises.

Leave the unscientific climate scam out of it, please.

The car is clearly a step down in dynamics and the overall drive. That said, I don't mind the looks. There was a yellow touring in the showroom when I picked up my M2, and I must say it looked quite nice.

[EUPremier]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Leave the unscientific climate scam out of it, please.

The car is clearly a step down in dynamics and the overall drive. That said, I don't mind the looks. There was a yellow touring in the showroom when I picked up my M2, and I must say it looked quite nice.

I simply stated facts: BMW are compelled to comply with regulations.

Nobody is denying that the weight is hugely undesirable.

However, the by-product of that weight is inexpensive daily-driving. That is very desirable.

And whatever your view on emissions and their effects on climate, pollution is undoubtedly undesirable. I’m quite happy that modern vehicles do less harm to the air I breathe.

[HoldenTudiks]

Originally Posted by DocWeatherington

I am assuming ..I'm never seen individual color being offered without the other stuff. Every M in recent memory has always been offered with it. Production the first year is always a toss up as options shifted around the first few years.

Even the g80 series had a similar issue and pause when it first launched

https://www.bimmerpost.com/forums/sh....php?t=1797990

This is different from the m5 situation right? The m3 offered full leather at launch, and just offered a different color in the future update. The m5 doesnt have full leather, so the new ones are just a different individual color, and not a full leather package right?

[calbears]

Originally Posted by HoldenTudiks

This is different from the m5 situation right? The m3 offered full leather at launch, and just offered a different color in the future update. The m5 doesnt have full leather, so the new ones are just a different individual color, and not a full leather package right?

The 2 "individual" leathers are full leathers with a production begin of 3/25

[DocWeatherington]

Originally Posted by HoldenTudiks

This is different from the m5 situation right? The m3 offered full leather at launch, and just offered a different color in the future update. The m5 doesnt have full leather, so the new ones are just a different individual color, and not a full leather package right?

I don't recall, I know the M3 had production delays for XYB options.

My advise is those that want the M5 wait until March 2025 to do an order as leather options are changing.

Options are going to change and get updated, come 2027 we are getting a new dash anyway.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by EUPremier

I simply stated facts: BMW are compelled to comply with regulations.

Nobody is denying that the weight is hugely undesirable.

However, the by-product of that weight is inexpensive daily-driving. That is very desirable.

And whatever your view on emissions and their effects on climate, pollution is undoubtedly undesirable. I’m quite happy that modern vehicles do less harm to the air I breathe.

They don't do less harm to the environment. So it is a worthless virtue signal. End to end, they are worse. But the point was never to do anything for the environment anyways.

Back on topic: The M5 could have turned out much worse. I was surprised at how good it looked in person.

[jnotrom711]

Originally Posted by masd79

From what I have heard bmw has said there will be no competition models for m5 as its specd to the highest. They did the same with m2 and the strategy worked, people are super happy too. And if they do some how surprise us, competition badging doesn’t make sense with hybrid, as they will most likely get more power from the electric part and thus increasing the weight and ruining the dynamics… so 🤷‍♂️

BMW saying there will be "no competition model" does not mean there will not be a higher model.

From my understanding, it will just be called something else. Such as the Label Red, like they did with the XM, and XM Label Red. The XM Label Red already has more power then the M5 (738/748HP vs 717/727 in M5).

As far as the transmission is concerned, and being maxed on power, maybe, but im sure they could easily make adjustments or the supplier can make adjustments. However, with that said... the XM already has more power, and weighs more. So I would imagine the transmission in that is capable of supporting a more power M5 "label red" or whatever they may call it.

Anyone know with how where the electric motor is (inside the transmission correct?) does that help relieve any stress on the transmission ? Im no engineer but I would think they would need to make some hardware adjustments anyway just for the hybrid motor in there. But again, Im no engineer.

But they've also hinted at ( I think) a tri or quad electric motor version with over 1000 hp, allegedly.

I believe there is plenty of room for a least 1 higher model, is that being a "comp" or "label red" ? Who knows. But they detuned the 4.4L V8 from (CS level) 627hp, down to 577 ( or close to that #) so down 50HP from the M5 CS, but very similar engine, so im sure its capable of at least an additional 50 HP from the gas motor, and im sure could squeeze more out of an electric set up as well. But just increasing the gas motor 50 additional ponies will bring it to @775HP so that would make sense to just do that.

As far as torque and transmission? Im sure they know what they're doing if they wanted to increase the power. and would address the "maxed out ZF"

Not to mention, I have no doubt they already are working on it, or have it designed and ready to roll. They just haven't released details on it to not cannibalize the sales on the initial g90.

The last thing they want to do is release this as the mack daddy and then have Audi and MB come clean their clocks a year or 2 from now, now that they've seen the M5 #s.

The GT 63 S E performance is 830HP or something like that similar type of powertrain. So have to imagine BMW has something up their sleeves for a higher model to not be outdone by competitors.

[masd79]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

BMW saying there will be "no competition model" does not mean there will not be a higher model.

From my understanding, it will just be called something else. Such as the Label Red, like they did with the XM, and XM Label Red. The XM Label Red already has more power then the M5 (738/748HP vs 717/727 in M5).

As far as the transmission is concerned, and being maxed on power, maybe, but im sure they could easily make adjustments or the supplier can make adjustments. However, with that said... the XM already has more power, and weighs more. So I would imagine the transmission in that is capable of supporting a more power M5 "label red" or whatever they may call it.

Anyone know with how where the electric motor is (inside the transmission correct?) does that help relieve any stress on the transmission ? Im no engineer but I would think they would need to make some hardware adjustments anyway just for the hybrid motor in there. But again, Im no engineer.

But they've also hinted at ( I think) a tri or quad electric motor version with over 1000 hp, allegedly.

I believe there is plenty of room for a least 1 higher model, is that being a "comp" or "label red" ? Who knows. But they detuned the 4.4L V8 from (CS level) 627hp, down to 577 ( or close to that #) so down 50HP from the M5 CS, but very similar engine, so im sure its capable of at least an additional 50 HP from the gas motor, and im sure could squeeze more out of an electric set up as well. But just increasing the gas motor 50 additional ponies will bring it to @775HP so that would make sense to just [...]

Someone dynod the g90 and got 800+ hp…

[hb]

Originally Posted by jnotrom711

BMW saying there will be "no competition model" does not mean there will not be a higher model.

From my understanding, it will just be called something else. Such as the Label Red, like they did with the XM, and XM Label Red. The XM Label Red already has more power then the M5 (738/748HP vs 717/727 in M5).

As far as the transmission is concerned, and being maxed on power, maybe, but im sure they could easily make adjustments or the supplier can make adjustments. However, with that said... the XM already has more power, and weighs more. So I would imagine the transmission in that is capable of supporting a more power M5 "label red" or whatever they may call it.

Anyone know with how where the electric motor is (inside the transmission correct?) does that help relieve any stress on the transmission ? Im no engineer but I would think they would need to make some hardware adjustments anyway just for the hybrid motor in there. But again, Im no engineer.

But they've also hinted at ( I think) a tri or quad electric motor version with over 1000 hp, allegedly.

I believe there is plenty of room for a least 1 higher model, is that being a "comp" or "label red" ? Who knows. But they detuned the 4.4L V8 from (CS level) 627hp, down to 577 ( or close to that #) so down 50HP from the M5 CS, but very similar engine, so im sure its capable of at least an additional 50 HP from the gas motor, and im sure could squeeze more out of an electric set up as well. But just increasing the gas motor 50 additional ponies will bring it to @775HP so that would make sense to just do that.

As far as torque and transmission? Im sure they know what they're doing if they wanted to increase the power. and would address the "maxed out ZF"

Not to mention, I have no doubt they already are working on it, or have it designed and ready to roll. They just haven't released details on it to not cannibalize the sales on the initial g90.

The last thing they want to do is release this as the mack daddy and then have Audi and MB come clean their clocks a year or 2 from now, now that they've seen the M5 #s.

The GT 63 S E performance is 830HP or something like that similar type of powertrain. So have to imagine BMW has something up their sleeves for a higher model to not be outdone by competitors.

The Label name thing is dead

[Alan l.]

For those that keep bringing up about waiting for a Comp model or waiting something higher up down the line let me ask you would you still buy it if it commands a 150/160K price point? A loaded G90/99 w ccb is coming in close to 140K as is so I would imagine if you want full leather and spicer drivetrain you are going to be well north of that which is entering a different level car imo. Just look at what the competitors are charging for similar cars in their line up. Its easy to bitch about what BMW left off the table but I'm sure if they included everything people would then be complaining the starting price of the car is too high.