[to_riffic]

I'm surprised everyone is dumping the GT4 because it didn't come in PDK whereas the GT3/RS guys are griping about not having a manual option. Can't win them all and I am a huge fan of a 6spd. PDK is amazing, but nothing beats rowing your own gears.

[W///]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Maybe, but really, what is ?
If you dissect hard enough, you'll find some faults in almost anything out there.

Looks stunning (subjective, I know), handles great, sounds great, great fit and finish and holds the value well.
What's not to like here?

Wait until the 991.2 GT3 comes out, hopefully with 4L NA flat 6 and 6MT. THAT would be God's chariot.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by Bbb34

Right, as it should, given the price difference.

I get what you're trying to say, no disagreement, but to me GT4 is a beautifully built car. There's always "better" out there somewhere.

Let me put it another way.
If you're not tracking it and price isn't relevant an M4 would be a better all around performance car.
My GT3 is a much better DD than the GT4.
Again, its a really nice vehicle and quite stunning in person.

[Z K]

While I enjoy watching his reviews, Nick's voice sounds somewhat annoying.

He also comes across as more of a street car guy than someone who is interested in performance and track driving. He's better at describing the bluetooth functionality and glovebox space than how the car slides around a corner sideways. I guess more "mainstream" than enthusiast.

I enjoy reviews from guys like Chris Harris more as he can describe what the car does at the cornering limit and the reaction to driving inputs as he pushes it and plays with them. That's especially true for a performance oriented car like the GT4. But that's probably less appealing to the 99% of people who don't drive on a track.

Good effort though

[moveswiftly]

Switched from a F80 M3 to a Cayman GT4.

Such an amazing car. My favorite parts of the car are: (1) exhaust note, (2) throttle response at 5K+ RPM, (3) shifter / clutch, and 4 looks.

Obviously apples to oranges comparison: But my f80 was tuned and this car does not accelerate as quickly between 2-5K RPM (lack of mid range torque).

Do I wish it had more midrange power? Yes. But I just keep it between 5-7K RPM in second gear to have fun Also, the bucket seats are amazing. The interior has a very fighter-jet feeling to it and you do not move at all.

Oh, and it doesn't hurt that I picked it up at MSRP!

[chillindrdude]

i'm always afraid that if i were to get the GT4, i'd always have the "what if GT3" gnawing at the back of my mind.

could one do a driving experience at PEC Atlanta to drive the GT4 and GT3 back to back?

[///M Ryder]

There's always something out there with more of this or less of that. At the end of the day the car you select to drive has to check all the right boxes for you.....not the guy next to you at the light. What did people do before forums were around to sway their decision making. Oh and by the way......GT4 FTMFW!...............Phil

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

It's pretty close, and speaking from a tracking perspective (have tracked with a few), I don't feel they are quite fast enough on long straits. They are extremely fast in corners and the ultimate momentum cars. I feel like the combination of a momentum car with enough power to hang with the big boys will be an unbeatable combo and the best of all worlds, and frankly probably will outshine the GT3, which is more of a power vs a momentum car. Been looking at various mods from German tuners, and +25-30 bhp is achievable with tuning, intake, and exhaust.

No the ultimate momentum car is a Miata or S2K. The GT4 is not a momentum car. Speaking from experience. The car has tons of power up top so like the M3, you can get a respectable time even if you are slow through the corners. But they are much faster than the E9x M3. I ran a 1:40.9 in my highly modded E92 M3 (with 300lbs weight loss and lots of NA power mods), and I ran a 1:40.4 my first time taking my bone stock GT4 on track (Laguna Seca). It was understeering like crazy and I ran consistent 1:40's all day with ease.

Because of all the understeer, I'd say the car isn't "perfect" out of the box. I'll need to do install shims and aftermarket toe links to get a good track alignment and a lot of guys already running aggressive alignements say the car is still too pushy.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by 991GT3

Its a tad slow due to gearing and it should have a PDK option.
I owned one for four months before dumping it in favor of a GT3.
The GT4 is beautiful but lacks the oomph of its big brother.

All cars feel too slow with modern stability and traction systems. You need 500-600hp/torque for a car to not feel slow when the car is saving your ass all the time behind the scenes. That's why GTR owners need 1000+hp to feel fast.

I drive all my cars with the nannies off at all times and so my S2000 and GT4 feel plenty fast and are a blast to drive at any moment. In fact, my S2000 which has much less power is far scarier to drive than the GT4. The GT3 feels like driving a GTR with the stability system on. Modern driving aids are so good these days that they make the driver feel like a hero and so you need tons of HP just to feel excited by the car. Turn off the nannies and even a 240hp S2000 will challenge you as a driver.

[Red Bread]

AP1 S2k's had about as much oversteer available as any car I can think of. Even my Z3 M Coupe was a little closer to neutral. AP2's were a little more neutral and took a lot of fun out of things, but were still amazingly aggressive for a Honda.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

AP1 S2k's had about as much oversteer available as any car I can think of. Even my Z3 M Coupe was a little closer to neutral. AP2's were a little more neutral and took a lot of fun out of things, but were still amazingly aggressive for a Honda.

That's why you go with a square setup on the AP2's.

[FogCityM3]

Disappointing to hear that the GT4 has understeer that is tough to dial out and isn't really a momentum car (to differentiate vs the point and shoot 911 GT3), though seems like the GT4s are faster in turns than in straights, but again I haven't driven one and I'm assuming equivalent skill level in the GT4 drivers. I'm seriously considering it as a 2nd car and really like the honest feedback on this post and the cars seem awesome, but Porsche seems to reserve most aggressive and best feeling steering for 911 GT3, which I have driven on the track and seems pretty much perfect IMO, which is not something I expected with the rear engine heavy layout. Not so much interested in rough equivalency/couple seconds faster than an M3 (TC Kline's M3 just with coilovers, pads and tires is doing 1:40 at Laguna Seca), but really want to make a leap to the next level car experience wise in both speed and dynamic feel.

Also driving without an MDM type mode gives me significant pause, just don't think its worth it for non-competitive motorsports, but that's a whole other rabbit hole.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by FogCityM3

Disappointing to hear that the GT4 has understeer that is tough to dial out and isn't really a momentum car (to differentiate vs the point and shoot 911 GT3), though seems like the GT4s are faster in turns than in straights, but again I haven't driven one and I'm assuming equivalent skill level in the GT4 drivers. I'm seriously considering it as a 2nd car and really like the honest feedback on this post and the cars seem awesome, but Porsche seems to reserve most aggressive and best feeling steering for 911 GT3, which I have driven on the track and seems pretty much perfect IMO, which is not something I expected with the rear engine heavy layout. Not so much interested in rough equivalency/couple seconds faster than an M3 (TC Kline's M3 just with coilovers, pads and tires is doing 1:40 at Laguna Seca), but really want to make a leap to the next level car experience wise in both speed and dynamic feel.

Also driving without an MDM type mode gives me significant pause, just don't think its worth it for non-competitive motorsports, but that's a whole other rabbit hole.

Oh I wasn't trying to say my M3 was capable of only 1:40's. I'm sure with a proper driver my M3 would have ran 1:37-1:38's easily. I'm a pretty consistent driver (my laps are almost always within a half a second of each other unless I hit traffic or intentionally try to do something really different) so comparing my M3 time to my GT4 time seemed like a relevant data point. Bottom line is the GT4 is far more capable on track compared to the E9x M3. But I'm sure that's not a surprise.

I've driven the 991 GT3 at Thunderhill and it's honestly too fast for the average driver (I consider myself an average driver). If you need the nannies on a car to drive on track, then the car is too much for your skill level. That's how I see it. The GT4 is on a totally different level than the E9x M3 in terms of driving dynamics. It's far more capable on track. When people are still concerned with straight line acceleration, I usually assume they aren't using their cars anywhere near their full potential in the corners in the first place. Driver mod is always the best answer. But if you are just looking for cheap thrills on the track, then yes, more HP is the answer.

Most people who have owned the 991 GT3 and GT4 say the steering feedback on the GT4 is far better. Not sure which generation GT3 you drove. The older ones are definitely more raw and visceral to drive. I still consider selling my GT4 and moving to a 996 GT3 at times. I'm 90% sure I'll have a lot more fun driving a rear engine car on track.

[rainfall]

Originally Posted by 991GT3
Its a tad slow due to gearing and it should have a PDK option.
I owned one for four months before dumping it in favor of a GT3.
The GT4 is beautiful but lacks the oomph of its big brother.

The gear shifts were "slow" because Nick Murray wasn't trying to race anyone. He and any other normal people can shift much faster than that. But if you're cruising, why would you?

It's like having breakfast before work: you can swallow everything if you have a meeting, but you can also enjoy your meal.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by rainfall

The gear shifts were "slow" because Nick Murray wasn't trying to race anyone. He and any other normal people can shift much faster than that. But if you're cruising, why would you?

It's like having breakfast before work: you can swallow everything if you have a meeting, but you can also enjoy your meal.

I was referring to my experience with the GT4. I owned one for four months before dumping it in favor of a GT3.

[Outlaw 06]

You guys crack me up insisting that 385-hp isn't sufficient for this car. I guarantee that the vast majority of drivers (99.9999%) don't possess the necessary car control skills or talent to push a 385-hp car to the limits and be able to recover when they push a little too far (with the electronic nannies turned off). I suggest that the vast majority of drivers would also run out of talent WAY before running out of horsepower or throttle in a 170-hp Spec Miata on an average road course.

[FogCityM3]

Thx that is helpful...but disagree with the T/C comment. Plainly for me, not worth the risk vs very small reward. As the article says if Michael Schumacher can use a little traction control, then so could I. Just my opinion as I know many who vehemently disagree.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cult...n-do-in-a-car/

Originally Posted by radiantm3

Oh I wasn't trying to say my M3 was capable of only 1:40's. I'm sure with a proper driver my M3 would have ran 1:37-1:38's easily. I'm a pretty consistent driver (my laps are almost always within a half a second of each other unless I hit traffic or intentionally try to do something really different) so comparing my M3 time to my GT4 time seemed like a relevant data point. Bottom line is the GT4 is far more capable on track compared to the E9x M3. But I'm sure that's not a surprise.

I've driven the 991 GT3 at Thunderhill and it's honestly too fast for the average driver (I consider myself an average driver). If you need the nannies on a car to drive on track, then the car is too much for your skill level. That's how I see it. The GT4 is on a totally different level than the E9x M3 in terms of driving dynamics. It's far more capable on track. When people are still concerned with straight line acceleration, I usually assume they aren't using their cars anywhere near their full potential in the corners in the first place. Driver mod is always the best answer. But if you are just looking for cheap thrills on the track, then yes, more HP is the answer.

Most people who have owned the 991 GT3 and GT4 say the steering feedback on the GT4 is far better. Not sure which generation GT3 you drove. The older ones are definitely more raw and visceral to drive. I still consider selling my GT4 and moving to a 996 GT3 at times. I'm 90% sure I'll have a lot more fun driving a rear engine car on track.

[991GT3]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

You guys crack me up insisting that 385-hp isn't sufficient for this car. I guarantee that the vast majority of drivers (99.9999%) don't possess the necessary car control skills or talent to push a 385-hp car to the limits and be able to recover when they push a little too far (with the electronic nannies turned off). I suggest that the vast majority of drivers would also run out of talent WAY before running out of horsepower or throttle in a 170-hp Spec Miata on an average road course.

What does that even mean? So what if most drivers couldn't push it to its limit on a track? The car would have been faster(and IMO better)with shorter gearing and PDK.

[FogCityM3]

Seriously, can't this be said of any car..where do you draw the line? Just reminds me of Sabine Schmidt driving that van on the Nurburgring...99.9% of drivers cannot push a van on that or any track at the limit and retain full control. These cars by and large are for amateurs who have day jobs. Yes it takes no skill to floor a pedal on a straight, but it's damn fun! Agree they could have given the GT4 a bit more power and better gearing.

Originally Posted by 991GT3

What does that even mean? So what if most drivers couldn't push it to its limit on a track? The car would have been faster(and IMO better)with shorter gearing and PDK.

[radiantm3]

Originally Posted by Outlaw 06

You guys crack me up insisting that 385-hp isn't sufficient for this car. I guarantee that the vast majority of drivers (99.9999%) don't possess the necessary car control skills or talent to push a 385-hp car to the limits and be able to recover when they push a little too far (with the electronic nannies turned off). I suggest that the vast majority of drivers would also run out of talent WAY before running out of horsepower or throttle in a 170-hp Spec Miata on an average road course.

While true, you both have a point. Most people who can afford these cars are not talented drivers. They need straight line acceleration to be fast on track. Guys who can really drive know that the fun and skill comes from carrying more speed through the corners. You can't expect our average Porsche owner to understand that. They just want to go fast as easily as possible. And that's the direction most modern sports cars are going. That's why most of the fast talented drivers are driving E36/46 M3's, S2000's, Miatas, and cars of that caliber on track.

[chillindrdude]

Originally Posted by radiantm3

That's why most of the fast talented drivers are driving E36/46 M3's, S2000's, Miatas, and cars of that caliber on track.

This is exceptionally true. I'd say at least 30-40% of the cars at my local HPDEs are e36 or e46. Part of this is the robust parts support, popularity of race class, and economy to run.

I truly feel that if one wants to be develop solid fundamentals of driving on a road course, it is imperative to start with a balanced momentum car. Horsepower can cover up alot of poor execution and line selection. Not to mention, really exacerbate mistakes if misapplied. The same holds true for drivers that jump over to slicks too soon.

[rainfall]

Originally Posted by 991GT3

I was referring to my experience with the GT4. I owned one for four months before dumping it in favor of a GT3.

nice! Not to hijack the thread, but can you send us more pics
I love porsches