[Fuller]

If I was cross shopping the c63 with the m3, it would only be due to the c63 being equipped with the v8. In most enthusiasts' minds the m3 is the sharper, more athletic, driver focused car of those two. If the c63 is becoming a hybrid 4-pot, I won't even consider it vs the m3/4, regardless of how much hp the c63 can generate, regardless of its low end power or straight line speed, regardless of how nice the interior is, regardless of any deals or lowering of the c63 msrp, and regardless of what the new m3 looks like or how big the grills are.

If, or when, all manufacturers adopt a similar platform for performance cars, I'll start looking toward Tesla. At that point where change is upon us, might as well dive in instead of gingerly dipping a toe into the surf.

[thermalc]

AMG isn't stupid, they know the V8 was the main selling point of that car.

Rest assured this 4 cylinder version will have some tricks up its sleeve to make sure it stands out. With less weight up front I wont be surprised if this is the generation that finally takes the handling crown from the M3.

[SCOTT26]

Originally Posted by thermalc

AMG isn't stupid, they know the V8 was the main selling point of that car.

Rest assured this 4 cylinder version will have some tricks up its sleeve to make sure it stands out. With less weight up front I wont be surprised if this is the generation that finally takes the handling crown from the M3.

It won't be the best looking...

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by thermalc

AMG isn't stupid, they know the V8 was the main selling point of that car.

Rest assured this 4 cylinder version will have some tricks up its sleeve to make sure it stands out. With less weight up front I wont be surprised if this is the generation that finally takes the handling crown from the M3.

Who cares though. It will still be a 4cyl. The bi-turbo V8 was its selling point. If you start taking the engines away, might as well go with the Model 3 Performance (handles great and very fast).

[Colinv6]

Have to agree. The current C63 with its bi-turbo V8 was an absolute beast! I almost went for one..... almost!!

A 4 pot just won’t even get consideration from me.

[Seniorleb]

I m so sorry watching this channel made me think I am in retro ages but anyways the new C63 will be s*** the new M4 will demolish the sales unless Mercedes will provide a better price than the BMW

[thermalc]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Who cares though. It will still be a 4cyl. The bi-turbo V8 was its selling point. If you start taking the engines away, might as well go with the Model 3 Performance (handles great and very fast).

No chance AMG lets their best selling model become a dud.

Koenigsegg made a 3 cylinder work in a hypercar, AMG will make a 4 cylinder work in a sports sedan. Were talking about the most advanced engines on the planet. Going full electric is not a better alternative to hybrid power yet.

[kyrix1st]

I wouldn't drool over S58 engine too much. Had a go in X3M non-comp, torque below 3,000rpm is very underwhelming, the whole engine feels laggy vs. S55 and It's not even as high revving as S55. Perfect for a shopping cart, but doesn't really deserve M badge.

M2 competition on the other hand feels like a street race car straight out of the box, thanks to DCT and its higher revving engine with plenty of low end torque. We don't really get MT options here so I want the automatic transmission to be as engaging as possible.

I feel like the upcoming generation of M will be very underwhelming in terms of actual performance if they don't do something significantly different for upcoming G8x, which I highly doubt given the "leaked" information.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by thermalc

No chance AMG lets their best selling model become a dud.

Koenigsegg made a 3 cylinder work in a hypercar, AMG will make a 4 cylinder work in a sports sedan. Were talking about the most advanced engines on the planet. Going full electric is not a better alternative to hybrid power yet.

Sorry but I don't care how's much hp it's making, and I agree they aren't going to make a "dud". Still doesn't change the fact that I would only buy a higher performance car like that with a V8 or at least a turbo 6. It's like the new turbo 4 in the A and CLA 45S making what 415-420 hp? That's insane for a 2 litre turbo 4...more hp and tq than what was available in most NA V8s! Would that ever be on my shopping list? Nooope.

[Colinv6]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Sorry but I don't care how's much hp it's making, and I agree they aren't going to make a "dud". Still doesn't change the fact that I would only buy a higher performance car like that with a V8 or at least a turbo 6. It's like the new turbo 4 in the A and CLA 45S making what 415-420 hp? That's insane for a 2 litre turbo 4...more hp and tq than what was available in most NA V8s! Would that ever be on my shopping list? Nooope.

Fully agree.

There’s a sort of threshold where 4 cylinders stops being acceptable, regardless of performance. There’s a feel, and especially a sound to bigger engines that a 4 cylinder will never match.

The C63 felt over engined which was a big appeal. The e92 was the same. Part of the reason while as much as I love my M4CS I can’t shake my desire for an e92
Competition

[solstice]

Benz and me has never got along. Just about everything feel wrong to me, styling, ergonomics, controls, chassis feedback, handling, you name it and I can tell you it doesn’t work for me...except the FI V8 engines which are beasts. Now there is zero reasons for me to even glance at these.

I would never have gotten one anyway since If I catch the V8 bug bad I’d rather stretch a little to the M5.

[GOLFFRR]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

It won't be the best looking...

[evanescent03]

Originally Posted by Colinv6

Fully agree.

There’s a sort of threshold where 4 cylinders stops being acceptable, regardless of performance. There’s a feel, and especially a sound to bigger engines that a 4 cylinder will never match.

The C63 felt over engined which was a big appeal. The e92 was the same. Part of the reason while as much as I love my M4CS I can’t shake my desire for an e92
Competition

I had a 718S for a month ... awesome on the track but just wasn't a fun overall experience. Lacked theater.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I wouldn't drool over S58 engine too much. Had a go in X3M non-comp, torque below 3,000rpm is very underwhelming, the whole engine feels laggy vs. S55 and It's not even as high revving as S55. Perfect for a shopping cart, but doesn't really deserve M badge.

I fully agree S58 lacks the low end and feels sluggish compared to S55 and B58.

Call me crazy if I got to decide the engine for the G8X, the electrified AMG-tuned 4 cylinder would be my pick over the S58, given no other options.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by kyrix1st

I wouldn't drool over S58 engine too much. Had a go in X3M non-comp, torque below 3,000rpm is very underwhelming, the whole engine feels laggy vs. S55 and It's not even as high revving as S55. Perfect for a shopping cart, but doesn't really deserve M badge.

M2 competition on the other hand feels like a street race car straight out of the box, thanks to DCT and its higher revving engine with plenty of low end torque. We don't really get MT options here so I want the automatic transmission to be as engaging as possible.

I feel like the upcoming generation of M will be very underwhelming in terms of actual performance if they don't do something significantly different for upcoming G8x, which I highly doubt given the "leaked" information.

In my opinion the risk is the exact opposite... even drawing from your own feedback above... the upcoming generation risks being underwhelming in performance "feel" but not actual performance. The torque curve and perceived lag on the S58 adds to the motor not "feeling" as strong to some as the s55.

The objective "actual performance", just using the X3M as a baseline, is going to be brutally fast and capable. Whether it feels as fast and the driving feel meets every individual preference... it probably will disappoint those looking for a raw experience.

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by xlover

In my opinion the risk is the exact opposite... even drawing from your own feedback above... the upcoming generation risks being underwhelming in performance "feel" but not actual performance. The torque curve and perceived lag on the S58 adds to the motor not "feeling" as strong to some as the s55.

The objective "actual performance", just using the X3M as a baseline, is going to be brutally fast and capable. Whether it feels as fast and the driving feel meets every individual preference... it probably will disappoint those looking for a raw experience.

What does the "perceived" turbo lag even mean? Are you implying it's not laggy but only perceived so?

Quite the opposite, the laggy cars normally get better 0-60, 1/4 mile numbers than what they're capable of in the real world, because in the testing, the 4wd grips off the line and the launch control mask the turbo lag well.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

What does the "perceived" turbo lag even mean? Are you implying it's not laggy but only perceived so?

Quite the opposite, the laggy cars normally get better 0-60, 1/4 mile numbers than what they're capable of in the real world, because in the testing, the 4wd grips off the line and the launch control mask the turbo lag well.

Exactly true. Look at the Audi RS3 as example...3.5-3.7s 0-60 but has horrible lag in the real world (doesn't help that there's transmission lag as well).

[SeanWRT]

Originally Posted by Burrcold

Exactly true. Look at the Audi RS3 as example...3.5-3.7s 0-60 but has horrible lag in the real world (doesn't help that there's transmission lag as well).

I wouldn't call RS3 horribly laggy (compared to X3M) but you get the idea.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

I wouldn't call RS3 horribly laggy (compared to X3M) but you get the idea.

I haven't driven an X3M but if it's more laggy than the RS3 I would be running the other way. I could not own an RS3 because of it (and I love everything about that car...engine is fantastic!).

[mathys]

My guess C63: 6 cylinder, C43: 4 cylinder.

[xlover]

Originally Posted by SeanWRT

What does the "perceived" turbo lag even mean? Are you implying it's not laggy but only perceived so?

Quite the opposite, the laggy cars normally get better 0-60, 1/4 mile numbers than what they're capable of in the real world, because in the testing, the 4wd grips off the line and the launch control mask the turbo lag well.

I was aiming more for that degree of lag is a matter of opinion, of those who have driven/reviewed the S58 some say there is no lag, some say a small amount, some say significant. Which is mostly a factor of expectations and prior experience. perception of lag is also relative to the rush of power when the boost gets on. Torque does not go from 0 to 400lbft as the car moves from 2900 rpm to 3000 rpm. its a question of does the motors ability to deliver torque when off boost and prior to boost fail/meet/exceed expectations vs the ability to deliver power on the high end. All interpreted through the individuals driving style and desires.

[The Automotive Enthusiast]

Adopting electric technology is just keeping up with the times.