[heavyD^2]

I do think Cadillac would be better served by going the Lincoln (making a bit of a comeback) route of making soft riding vehicles with plush interiors rather than investing in the luxury performance segment. This new interior is better but it still looks more Buick than true luxury and I think most domestic luxury buyers want a cruiser with a fancy interior. As good of a performance bargain these cars will be I just don't see them selling in numbers that's going to help this struggling brand.

[N54Yankee]

My wife prefers to lease cars and she’s currently in a Lincoln MKZ. her car before that was a Cadillac ATS. both cars with the 2.0t. One of the most important factors for her is a ‘cushy’ ride. I warned her prior to getting the ATS that it might be stiffer then what she wants but she got it anyway. She liked it a lot and she didn’t think it was to unforgiving for her which surprised me.

Just for the hell of it when her lease was up she decided to go with the Lincoln. She doesn’t like the wallowing ride it has compared to the sure footed Cadillac. Everything else is pretty much a tie except the Cue on the ATS which was annoying. She’s going back to Cadillac after the lease is up.

I think most buyers today appreciate a little firmer suspension over the cruise ship like characteristic handling feel of big American cars of the past. ‘Sporty’ is the new norm. I think we can thank BMW for that. IMO. I liked the ATS over the MKZ also and glad she’s dumping the MKZ.

[TheBingoBalls]

I feel the outcome is going to be the same as the ATS. I have nothing against the car, haven't yet driven it and it's just my opinion. Sometimes you have to take off the enthusiast glasses and just accept what the reality of the market is. Cadillac is not in a favourable position where they can afford not to build vehicles that appeal to the masses - by building "German killers" or modern day E46's, they might appeal to the enthusiast, they will always be playing catch-up and will always be playing from behind because the market has move on.

Do I think Cadillac should stop making these types of vehicle? No, but I feel like they're trying to become relevant by making their own version of the E90 with hopes that it will capture the same success as BMW but the market is already 2 generations ahead while Cadillac is still trying to capture a market that has clearly moved on.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

I feel the outcome is going to be the same as the ATS. I have nothing against the car, haven't yet driven it and it's just my opinion. Sometimes you have to take off the enthusiast glasses and just accept what the reality of the market is. Cadillac is not in a favourable position where they can afford not to build vehicles that appeal to the masses - by building "German killers" or modern day E46's, they might appeal to the enthusiast, they will always be playing catch-up and will always be playing from behind because the market has move on.

Do I think Cadillac should stop making these types of vehicle? No, but I feel like they're trying to become relevant by making their own version of the E90 with hopes that it will capture the same success as BMW but the market is already 2 generations ahead while Cadillac is still trying to capture a market that has clearly moved on.

If my E90 died during the years the ATS was in production, I would have replaced it with an ATS. BMW after the E90, left the 3-series platform. The ATS was a far better enthusiast's car than the F30 and probably the G20. With my fleet situation as it is now, I doubt I'll replace any of the cars I have now for the next 6 years or so.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

If my E90 died during the years the ATS was in production, I would have replaced it with an ATS. BMW after the E90, left the 3-series platform. The ATS was a far better enthusiast's car than the F30 and probably the G20. With my fleet situation as it is now, I doubt I'll replace any of the cars I have now for the next 6 years or so.

That's fair and I would imagine many others would feel/think the same if the timing was there but like I said, Cadillac is and will always be playing catch-up if they keep building modern day E46's.

Ultimately, everyone talks a big game but how many really do abandon BMW? Look no further than the M forums, everyone in there was like "Save the manuals!", but how many of them went DCT and now swear by it? It's nice that there are options but the Germans are in their own league at the moment in that they have cars that people want whether it's because of infotainment, luxury, aesthetics or just the badge.

[See5]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

That's fair and I would imagine many others would feel/think the same if the timing was there but like I said, Cadillac is and will always be playing catch-up if they keep building modern day E46's.

Ultimately, everyone talks a big game but how many really do abandon BMW? Look no further than the M forums, everyone in there was like "Save the manuals!", but how many of them went DCT and now swear by it? It's nice that there are options but the Germans are in their own league at the moment in that they have cars that people want whether it's because of infotainment, luxury, aesthetics or just the badge.

There's nothing E46 about the CT5 though. It's the size of the 5-series.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by See5

There's nothing E46 about the CT5 though. It's the size of the 5-series.

I didn't mean it literally. From the reviews that I've read, the chassis and driving feel is still top notch compared to anything the Germans are putting out.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

That's fair and I would imagine many others would feel/think the same if the timing was there but like I said, Cadillac is and will always be playing catch-up if they keep building modern day E46's.

Ultimately, everyone talks a big game but how many really do abandon BMW? Look no further than the M forums, everyone in there was like "Save the manuals!", but how many of them went DCT and now swear by it? It's nice that there are options but the Germans are in their own league at the moment in that they have cars that people want whether it's because of infotainment, luxury, aesthetics or just the badge.

BMW has become a company that sells to Roundel Hounds (i.e. badge whores). I'm not talking big, the only new BMW I'd buy would be E90 size or slightly smaller, with a naturally aspirated in-line 6 cylinder, rear wheel drive, and a manual transmission.

They should do a car as a homage to the E30, similar to what Ford and Chevy do with the Mustang and Camero.

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

BMW has become a company that sells to Roundel Hounds (i.e. badge whores). I'm not talking big, the only new BMW I'd buy would be E90 size or slightly smaller, with a naturally aspirated in-line 6 cylinder, rear wheel drive, and a manual transmission.

They should do a car as a homage to the E30, similar to what Ford and Chevy do with the Mustang and Camero.

I've given up on BMW trying to make some sort of heritage Hommage vehicle and just accepted what they and every car manufacture is today.

Like you I've sworn by my N52 E90 but it's starting to get long in the tooth where the repairs aren't just worth it anymore. So I'm already looking at getting a 128i to replace it to sit beside my F36 440i.

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by TheBingoBalls

So I'm already looking at getting a 128i to replace it to sit beside my F36 440i.

I did just that for my wife's latest car. The normally aspirated I-6 in her 128i Sport has everything she wants in a car and I won't have to try to maintain a turbo into its old age.

My daily driver is 35-year-old E28 535i stick and last week a $60 crank position sensor and about ten-minutes under the hood was enough to fix a no-start issue. I like opening the hood and actually being able to identify most of the parts!

[W///]

Originally Posted by BMWCCA1

I did just that for my wife's latest car. The normally aspirated I-6 in her 128i Sport has everything she wants in a car and I won't have to try to maintain a turbo into its old age.

My daily driver is 35-year-old E38 535i stick and last week a $60 crank position sensor and about ten-minutes under the hood was enough to fix a no-start issue. I like opening the hood and actually being able to identify most of the parts!

Assuming you meant an E28? I've always thought they were such cool looking cars.

I stopped paying attention to these newer cars long ago, even though I think this next CTS-V is pretty nice looking.

Everyone that said their late 2000's BMW is their last one because BMW lost their soul should do themselves a favor and drive the M2C. That's pretty much one of the few cars that interest me.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by W///

Assuming you meant an E28? I've always thought they were such cool looking cars.

I stopped paying attention to these newer cars long ago, even though I think this next CTS-V is pretty nice looking.

Everyone that said their late 2000's BMW is their last one because BMW lost their soul should do themselves a favor and drive the M2C. That's pretty much one of the few cars that interest me.

Honestly the M2C is the ONLY current BMW I feel that holds the "ultimate driving machine" title. It could still use some improvements here and there, but it is pretty much BMW's best vehicle currently, and is having an E39 moment in that they can't screw up the next generation.

[W///]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Honestly the M2C is the ONLY current BMW I feel that holds the "ultimate driving machine" title. It could still use some improvements here and there, but it is pretty much BMW's best vehicle currently, and is having an E39 moment in that they can't screw up the next generation.

Same. Right size, right amount of tech, fun, 6MT, right price and most importantly for me, maintainable after warranty.

I honestly think the next M2 will be a great one as well. RWD S58 with 6MT in a compact car (hopefully) is exactly what The Ultimate Driving Machine is all about.

I will say though, I genuinely love the G05. But a truck works better for me as a DD/workhorse

[BMWCCA1]

Originally Posted by W///

Assuming you meant an E28? I've always thought they were such cool looking cars.

Yes, and thanks for the correction. I was just going to leave it at "35-year-old 535i" but figured many might do the math incorrectly and think I was talking about an E34 (which I still own) or E39 (still own two of those), so I stuck the (wrong) e-code number in quickly.

I'm around new BMW models all day long. My desk is in a showroom full of new M5s, M4 Heritage Editions, and all forms of SUVs with "M" in their model designations that BMW NA now tells us ARE "real" M-cars. When people ask what my favorite is, or what I'd actually spend my money on, I always point to the lowly Hockenheim Silver M2 Competition 6-speed manual. When they ask why, I tell them because it actually drives like a BMW used to.

What I'd really prefer would be an M2-like car with a normally aspirated I-6 and hydraulically assisted steering. Let's call it a 130is. The length of time I keep my BMWs makes a turbo replacement a real possibility and I'd rather not.

Since "graduating" from 2002s to 5-series over 30-years ago (but still owning 2002s), I've become very fond of four-doors. I pushed for BMW to make a 2-series "Grand Coupe" but imagine my horror when it turned out to be a FWD-based MINI masquerading as a BMW. There's one in my driveway tonight. Driving it is not changing my mind about it though.

You'll never get me to give up my non-turbo, stick shift, in-line six-cylinder, hydraulically boosted steering, rear-wheel-drive BMWs. I'm such a Luddite I still believe an M-car has to have one throttle per cylinder . . . and rear-wheel-drive!

[Bewstd]

I was Very Very Very close to buying a ATS-V over my M2 but the infotainment system killed it for me. Those GM chassis engineers are really good and mag ride is killer.


Not going to lie, I plan on tracking the M2 but since it's my daily I may get a used c5/c6 vette to have as a pure playtoy and hooning machine. Components are much cheaper and LS motor

[nick3753]

CT4 Blackwing (I believe) at Home Depot. Rear brake set up puts BMW to shame.

[GOLFFRR]

props to them for releasing a beast, lets see how the build quality is and also how the resale value of them hold up. Seems a lot of these American muscle type cars take huge hits once you drive them off the lot.

I do love how all these companies are pushing the limits tho! You see it in the truck market also. Love it!

[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by jstein55

Honestly I think the Cadillac's have way more soul than most modern M cars. Drive the CTS-V and M5 back to back and the M5 is as numb as possible and the CTS-V is so much fun and engaging and sounds fantastic with the LT2 engine. Also most Cadillac dealers are much nicer than regular Chevy dealers. My local Cadillac dealer is known for very good service and treatment of customers. Not like BMW's don't depreciate either and don't have some bad dealers as well.

I test drove the F90 M5 back to back with a C7 Vette and it was far from "numb as possible", quite the opposite. The consensus, of the 4 of us that drove the F90, was that it was scary fast. There was a GTR there that my buddy, the owner of the C7, drove and he was still dumbfounded by the F90. I didn't know the GTR owner well enough to drive. it Will be purchasing a F90 after winter. C7 was great too.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by StatenEye

I test drove the F90 M5 back to back with a C7 Vette and it was far from "numb as possible", quite the opposite. The consensus, of the 4 of us that drove the F90, was that it was scary fast. There was a GTR there that my buddy, the owner of the C7, drove and he was still dumbfounded by the F90. I didn't know the GTR owner well enough to drive. it Will be purchasing a F90 after winter. C7 was great too.

F90 is fast, but in my opinion, the engine and exhaust don't have much character, the steering is hopped up on novocaine and while certainly capable, its limits are too high for street use, and a large amount of owners outside of forums will rarely track it and the engagement and handling were just okay. Great on the straights, okay in the corners. The CTS-V has a much more engaging and communicative chassis, as does a C7 Corvette. They may not be as fast in a straight line, but I'd give that up for a better handling vehicle.

[StatenEye]

Originally Posted by jstein55

F90 is fast, but in my opinion, the engine and exhaust don't have much character, the steering is hopped up on novocaine and while certainly capable, its limits are too high for street use, and a large amount of owners outside of forums will rarely track it and the engagement and handling leave me wanting for more. Great on the straights, okay in the corners. The CTS-V has a much more engaging and communicative chassis, as does a C7 Corvette. They may not be as fast in a straight line, but I'd give that up for a better handling vehicle.

Yea, I guess because I'm never going to be sliding around corners on the street and I'm likely to rip the straight line I have different values for a road car. That being said. even in the F10 M5 I cant imagine needing more from the handling on the street. I just posted our catless M5 with stock exhaust for another S63TT owner https://streamable.com/2utnlv, sounds like a demon. The F90 I drove also had an exhaust that just blew everyone away. I'm shocked it is so pedestrian to you, thankfully I'm more easily impressed as were the Vette and GTR owners that were seeing/hearing and driving the F90 first hand for the first time.

[stein_325i]

Originally Posted by nick3753

CT4 Blackwing (I believe) at Home Depot. Rear brake set up puts BMW to shame.

Looks good, hopefully they reveal them soon.

[RMachuca3d]

I seriously debated leasing a CT4 v, but two factors are holding me back, first in the PNW you cannot find one in RWD, dealers keep ordering the damn awd assuming everyone wants a damn awd and i dont want to do a custom order, i want to test drive a rwd version but cant.

Secondly, they are sticking pretty firmly to MSRP unless you are buying (im done buying new and taking the depreciation hit, so a no go for me), and it just doesnt feel like you are getting the most value considering the plethora of vehicles you can get for 30-40K that would leave the CT4 V in the dust. If they would bump down the MSRP by 10-15% then it might be more enticing, but with the current market situation its not happening.

Kudos to cadillac though for making a RWD sedan, with a peppy engine and with an LSD stock and decent base features and attractive styling. Will keep my eyes peeled for future deals.