[Froz3n_M]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

From C&D: AMG hopes to make up for the loss of the V-8 sound through artificial sound effects, which are transmitted into the cabin for the benefit of the occupants and through external speakers for the benefit of bystanders. The press release speaks of a "low-frequency, speed-modulated sound."

This, this is... This is just sad...

"Hey what exhaust is that?"
"Oh it's 6.5 inch 4ohm bro, sick right?"

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by Froz3n_M

This, this is... This is just sad...

"Hey what exhaust is that?"
"Oh it's 6.5 inch 4ohm bro, sick right?"

Just wire it to 2ohm's and you'll run 9's...

[Froz3n_M]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Just wire it to 2ohm's and you'll run 9's...

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I disagree actually. I think the majority of C63 customers just like Mercedes and the image the AMG projects. They don't care what is powering the car. Some may renounce the brand but most will be return customers with the new model. AMG customers have also never cared about weight or handling in my experience.

It’s this bad ha?

[TheBingoBalls]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

It's this bad ha?

It's been like this for a while. Even with BMW, before naturally aspirated engines were completely dropped and turbos were the norm, how many swore by the inline 6? Of those buyers that bought new cars, how many moved into a 40i with the inline 6 and how many got into a 30i with 4-banger? I would say a lot more got into the N20/B48 than they did N55/B58.

[will0621]

This thing weighs as much, is much slower, and has the same amount of soul as a Plaid. As someone who has previously cross shopped amgs i would never consider a non v8 amg.

[chad86tsi]

Originally Posted by M3WC

Next M3/M4 is rumored hybrid, following next gen M5.

What do you think a hybrid straight-6 M3 will weigh? G80 M3 xdrive is 3900lbs.

My guess it it will add 500 pounds.

I had a 2009 Altima Hybrid as a DD for many years, they are great for adding torque and HP to an existing platform and greatly improve city mileage, but they add a lot of weight for the battery and electric motor. The Altima hybrid weighed 600 pounds more for an extra 50 HP & 130 ft/lb, and almost double the city mileage. the highway mileage lost a few MPG from hauling all that weight around.

The tech has gotten better since then so they can surely extract more HP per pound, but electric motors and batteries are still very heavy.

[Germanauto]

This is what I've concluded:
- This car is heavier and slower than an AWD M3, sounds worse, will be super unreliable, and doesn't have the option for a MT like an M3
- It will get its lunch eaten in cornering and overall driving feel compared to a Giulia QV or the M3
- It will be slower and drink gas compared to a Model 3 Performance

So where exactly is the "progress" here? It's like they took the shittiest aspects of ICE and EV and combined them. Again, I think sales will be still be fine since people who buy such cars value branding over the Xs and Os. But Mercedes really just holding a lotta Ls here.

[heavyD^2]

This car is the answer to a question that nobody asked. They took the worst parts of an EV (weight) and ICE (4-cylinders) and made an AMG out of it.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

This is what I've concluded:
- This car is heavier and slower than an AWD M3, sounds worse, will be super unreliable, and doesn't have the option for a MT like an M3
- It will get its lunch eaten in cornering and overall driving feel compared to a Giulia QV or the M3
- It will be slower and drink gas compared to a Model 3 Performance

So where exactly is the "progress" here? It's like they took the shittiest aspects of ICE and EV and combined them. Again, I think sales will be still be fine since people who buy such cars value branding over the Xs and Os. But Mercedes really just holding a lotta Ls here.

It is kind of like the AMG ONE, a technological marvel but a letdown in terms of purism, excitement and performance.

[GERMAN M3]

Originally Posted by stein_325i

The new Mercedes-AMG C 63 S E PERFORMANCE: the dawn of a new era

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Dang stein_325i …..That WAGON!!

[Theruleslawyer]

I'm interested what the driving experience will be like.

How are they going to blend the EV power train and what has to be a huge laggy turbo together?

How much reserve can you actually get out of the EV part before it cries uncle?

I perdict this will probably end up a terrible track car, but the AMG fans will only care that it has a big HP number and good magazine times.

[AlexFL]

BMW is trying too hard with their new extravaganza exterior designs and Merc is trying too hard by totally overengineering their cars. Sometimes less is more, lol.

[M3WC]

Originally Posted by AlexFL

BMW is trying too hard with their new extravaganza exterior designs and Merc is trying too hard by totally overengineering their cars. Sometimes less is more, lol.

BMW is going hybrid with the next gen M5, M3/M4 is rumored to go that way as well.

So get use to over-engineered powertrains.

[AlexFL]

Originally Posted by M3WC

BMW is going hybrid with the next gen M5, M3/M4 is rumored to go that way as well.

So get use to over-engineered powertrains.

It will be a V8 plug-in hybrid based on the S68 and not an overboosted four banger with some exotic Formula 1 turbos.

[Darth One]

My reactions:

Wow it looks good on first view. It's crazy how big a deal that is to a prospective buyer (could be just me). If it doesn't look good on first viewing i read everything else halfheartedly

Powertrain seems extremely complicated. And hard to envision how it drives tbh. All bets are off until I can experience that

You guys make good points on the weight and overengineering

AMG's have historically had an expensive-to-maintain reputation. Wonder how much more extra this would be

[swagon]

Originally Posted by Germanauto

I disagree actually. I think the majority of C63 customers just like Mercedes and the image the AMG projects. They don't care what is powering the car. Some may renounce the brand but most will be return customers with the new model. AMG customers have also never cared about weight or handling in my experience.

Probably a geographical & social difference.

Come to a major German or UK city and you'll find many fuckboys & douchebags in their C 63s doing real dumb stuff, and all have loud pipes too. They care about the AMG badge just as much as they do about the 4.0/6.2 V8. The crazy power of this boat of a C-class might still attract them, though.

I don't see those cars at the track, but I see quite a lot of AMG GTs being tracked. Bit of a different customer base for that one.

I could not have been any less interested in a C 63 than this one. Holy shit does it look uninspiring and akin to a C 200 AMG Line. But that's also due to melted-banana-look of the base car (and the previous gen sedan/wagon). Current-gen Merc design language is a miss, imo.

[billnchristy]

I had the 302hp X2 m35i and felt like that engine was a bit strung out, I can't imagine how it must be in this AMG. The bmw pushed almost 23lb of boost so I figure 35+ for this beast? Seems like a recipe for reliability disaster IMO.

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by billnchristy

I had the 302hp X2 m35i and felt like that engine was a bit strung out, I can't imagine how it must be in this AMG. The bmw pushed almost 23lb of boost so I figure 35+ for this beast? Seems like a recipe for reliability disaster IMO.

Depends on the size of the turbo, the bigger it is the lower the pressure it needs to deliver the same power. I think one publication said it makes peak torque at 5250 rpm so that is not a little turbo, pretty big turbo imo and laggy as fuck.
The complexity of this drivetrain would make me only want to lease the car, owning it after warranty would be asking for trouble.

[brad850csi]

Originally Posted by forcefed

Depends on the size of the turbo, the bigger it is the lower the pressure it needs to deliver the same power. I think one publication said it makes peak torque at 5250 rpm so that is not a little turbo, pretty big turbo imo and laggy as fuck.
The complexity of this drivetrain would make me only want to lease the car, owning it after warranty would be asking for trouble.

AMG put in that little bump in torque around 5000rpm to make the car feel more exciting close to the redline and more N/A, the boost threshold definitely isn't much higher than any other turbo engine

[forcefed]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

AMG put in that little bump in torque around 5000rpm to make the car feel more exciting close to the redline and more N/A, the boost threshold definitely isn't much higher than any other turbo engine

Ah ok didn't see that graph, seems similar to the s58 but that torque bump is something, normally it should start falling at that rpm. That's definitely that eboost stuff working is magic, the first curve is the eboost and the second one is the actual turbo maybe?

[RM7]

Originally Posted by brad850csi

AMG put in that little bump in torque around 5000rpm to make the car feel more exciting close to the redline and more N/A, the boost threshold definitely isn't much higher than any other turbo engine

Max torque is available in most modern turbos around 1500rpm. To do this, they are typically spinning smaller turbos (one or more), with twin scrolls, tapping right off the exhaust valves/manifold, hot-Vs, etc.