[swagon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

If they were worried about different climate extremes then you’d think they’d recommend different oil viscosity but it’s the same everywhere. S65 gets 10W60 regardless of the climates it sees.

I’m surprised the EU interval is 2 years or 12.4k miles whichever comes first. I’d be concerned about two year old oil in a car likely not driven long enough to burn off the moisture absorbed by the oil. I always think about my 8k mile or once/year OCI and whether I should use every 4k miles or twice/year OCI.

Or 0W-30 for the S58...

It's all about economics and cheaper monthlies within leasing periods.

36 months with a 10,000-km annual allowance, which is about the most popular here, means that your 330d nor M5 won't have to get serviced more than once.

I've seen G82s that had to have an oil change at 15,000 km per CBS or, on the contrary, 330e hybrids at 33,000 km. So the CBS does work, but your VIN will still say "service interval 2/30,000 km". Yours will say something else - they've got their own SA codes.

I change the engine oil no later than 10,000 km/6,200 miles.

Fiat Ducato vans (Ram Promaster in your ends) have got a interval of 2 yrs/40,000 km. All because of last-mile delivery companies that run them for a couple years and throw them away.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by swagon

Or 0W-30 for the S58...

It's all about economics and cheaper monthlies within leasing periods.

36 months with a 10,000-km annual allowance, which is about the most popular here, means that your 330d nor M5 won't have to get serviced more than once.

I've seen G82s that had to have an oil change at 15,000 km per CBS or, on the contrary, 330e hybrids at 33,000 km. So the CBS does work, but your VIN will still say "service interval 2/30,000 km". Yours will say something else - they've got their own SA codes.

I change the engine oil no later than 10,000 km/6,200 miles.

Fiat Ducato vans (Ram Promaster in your ends) have got a interval of 2 yrs/40,000 km. All because of last-mile delivery companies that run them for a couple years and throw them away.

What do you mean by “economics and cheaper monthlies within leasing periods”? You have to pre-pay for the maintenance during the lease period? I’m surprised this doesn’t have a major impact on the used car market. It feels like BMW wants to get a new car through its warranty period and then they could care less about the reliability and longevity of their used cars are. I thought the OCI were bad in the US but it’s far worse in the EU.

[swagon]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

What do you mean by “economics and cheaper monthlies within leasing periods”? You have to pre-pay for the maintenance during the lease period? I’m surprised this doesn’t have a major impact on the used car market. It feels like BMW wants to get a new car through its warranty period and then they could care less about the reliability and longevity of their used cars are. I thought the OCI were bad in the US but it’s far worse in the EU.

Yeah, maintenance can be an extra option sometimes.

That's exactly what it is, yeah, keep the customers in the loop for a new car every three years.

Even with the horrendous maintenance intervals, the engines do last a lot of miles, I'd say 100k miles at least before needing a good once over. What they look like inside after just four oil changes, that's another story. But a ton of 230,000+ mile E90s, F10s, F01s, G11s out there still going strong. Then they get exported to Eastern Europe, get clocked to show 120k miles instead of 230 and their lives go on

[co_440i]

Originally Posted by swagon

Yeah, maintenance can be an extra option sometimes.

That's exactly what it is, yeah, keep the customers in the loop for a new car every three years.

Even with the horrendous maintenance intervals, the engines do last a lot of miles, I'd say 100k miles at least before needing a good once over. What they look like inside after just four oil changes, that's another story. But a ton of 230,000+ mile E90s, F10s, F01s, G11s out there still going strong. Then they get exported to Eastern Europe, get clocked to show 120k miles instead of 230 and their lives go on

That's wild. I've leased from a couple of different companies (Toyota and Nissan) here in the US and nearly all maintenance was just included- it's explicitly one of the main benefits of leasing here! I can't imagine having all the restrictions of leasing AND having to worry about maintenance.

OP, I'm glad you were able to track this all down! But it definitely would have been a "fun" experiment you could have conducted on behalf of the entire community if the car had really only had one oil change in that much time lol.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by swagon

Yeah, maintenance can be an extra option sometimes.

That's exactly what it is, yeah, keep the customers in the loop for a new car every three years.

Even with the horrendous maintenance intervals, the engines do last a lot of miles, I'd say 100k miles at least before needing a good once over. What they look like inside after just four oil changes, that's another story. But a ton of 230,000+ mile E90s, F10s, F01s, G11s out there still going strong. Then they get exported to Eastern Europe, get clocked to show 120k miles instead of 230 and their lives go on

I was being facetious when I said BMW just wants to get their cars thru the warranty period. However, BMW was once known for their legendary NA I6 engines that would last forever. Now if it makes it to 150k miles it’s a miracle.

Really? Mileage rollback is known to happen with cars resold to Eastern Europe? 110k miles are rolled back - that’s crazy. It’s all generations and all models? I thought in newer BMWs, the mileage is stored in several modules/locations to prevent rollback?

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I was being facetious when I said BMW just wants to get their cars thru the warranty period. However, BMW was once known for their legendary NA I6 engines that would last forever. Now if it makes it to 150k miles it’s a miracle.

That’s not true.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

That is definitely a very long time! My guess is there was at least one change after the 3,000 miles during those 24k miles. It would be exceedingly unlikely a dealer would run a courtesy car that many miles without changing the oil. The odds of that happening are virtually nil.

Having said that I’ll tell a little story. I worked for a BMW dealer once upon a time and we had a little old lady return her X3 at the end of her lease with 36,000 miles and it had one oil change during her lease at 18,000 miles. For some reason that’s when her CBS system told her to get the oil changed. Because of this BMWNA required us to pull the valve cover and send them photos of the internals of the motor before they would agree to let us CPO the car. I got to look inside the motor. It was pristine!! It looked like it was brand new!! Not the slightest hint of wear or sludge anywhere to be seen. That really increased my confidence in the durability of fully synthetic oil.

My N52 went 17.6K on its factory oil. It's got 424,000 miles on it now.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

That’s not true.

Which part? Their reputation was build on their legendary engines or their engines don’t last the way they used to? The latter statement was based on discussions with my brother-in-law whose been a BMW tech for 35 years.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

Which part? Their reputation was build on their legendary engines or their engines don’t last the way they used to? The latter statement was based on discussions with my brother-in-law whose been a BMW tech for 35 years.

The latter. I’m starting to see reports of owners with B58 motors having 200k - 250k+ miles on a not infrequent basis. As it’s always been with BMW motors, keeping up with routine maintenance is the key.

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

The latter. I’m starting to see reports of owners with B58 motors having 200k - 250k+ miles on a not infrequent basis. As it’s always been with BMW motors, keeping up with routine maintenance is the key.

B58 is one of their better engines and that’s only one of the current engines available. However, turbo I4s and turbo V8s, regardless of maintenance, have really bad reliability. I6 reliability is better but not nearly as reliable as their NA I6s used to be.

[tturedraider]

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

I was being facetious when I said BMW just wants to get their cars thru the warranty period. However, BMW was once known for their legendary NA I6 engines that would last forever. Now if it makes it to 150k miles it’s a miracle.

Originally Posted by M3SQRD

B58 is one of their better engines and that’s only one of the current engines available. However, turbo I4s and turbo V8s, regardless of maintenance, have really bad reliability. I6 reliability is better but not nearly as reliable as their NA I6s used to be.

Okay, but you didn’t mention I4s or V8s (turbo or otherwise). I would agree that in particular BMWs V8 have never been bastions of reliability. You said if the turbo I6 motors make it to 150,000 miles it’s a miracle and that’s not true. From the posts I’ve seen, non-modified B58 motors are pretty close to bulletproof and I’m not even seeing reports of them having to have turbos replaced to go well over 150k miles. I’m also seeing a lot less reporting of chronic oil leaks with B58s. While most of BMW’s NA I6 motors may have been able to last for many miles it was pretty much a given there were going to be a significant number of oil leaks to be addressed during that time. I’m not saying the B58 doesn’t ever suffer from oil leaks, but I can say I have very little recollection of reading about them with any frequency at all. btw, I do count myself as one of the lucky ones. My E90 330i N52 never suffered a single oil leak. I was very thankful for that!!

[M3SQRD]

Originally Posted by tturedraider

Okay, but you didn’t mention I4s or V8s (turbo or otherwise). I would agree that in particular BMWs V8 have never been bastions of reliability. You said if the turbo I6 motors make it to 150,000 miles it’s a miracle and that’s not true. From the posts I’ve seen, non-modified B58 motors are pretty close to bulletproof and I’m not even seeing reports of them having to have turbos replaced to go well over 150k miles. I’m also seeing a lot less reporting of chronic oil leaks with B58s. While most of BMW’s NA I6 motors may have been able to last for many miles it was pretty much a given there were going to be a significant number of oil leaks to be addressed during that time. I’m not saying the B58 doesn’t ever suffer from oil leaks, but I can say I have very little recollection of reading about them with any frequency at all. btw, I do count myself as one of the lucky ones. My E90 330i N52 never suffered a single oil leak. I was very thankful for that!!

Yes. At one point they made only I4 and I6 and that’s what, and when, they developed their reputation, primarily on the I6, as an engine builder. Even the M1 had an I6. That’s when their reputation was established. Currently, they make I4s, I6s and V8s (and EVs & PEVs). Why would my statement about its reputation being built on I6s automatically preclude all other engine configurations? If their reputation had been defined by V10s, I would’ve only listed V10. Engine reliability isn’t limited to a single engine configuration. It applies to all currently produced engine configurations.

I have owned/own e21 320i, e30 325e, e36 M3, e46 M3, two e92 M3s, r56 Mini CS, f22 228ix, f82, f22 m240ix and g20 330ix. Of all of the different engine configurations and displacements, I’ve had only one engine consume oil between oil changes and it was 0.5 L/3500 miles. I’ve been very fortunate but I also followed the same break-in approach on all engines, even for S engines with their 1200 mile break-in service. I track all of my cars regularly and they still don’t consume oil, at least not enough to require adding oil. I’ve had no major, or even minor, engine issues except for preemptive RB changes on the e92 4 L V8 M3s. Based on my single data point, it would show BMW has 100% engine reliability but it’s only one data point; however, it covers every engine configuration except for V10 and V12.