[c1pher]

I think they are becoming borderline clickbaity with their material and really stopped watching them after their M2 review.

At the end of the day they are getting paid to do these reviews, whether it’s from views or by the manufacturers themselves. The manufacturers want positive reviews. Hyundai probably offered them some future exclusive review of a future car and that’s how they end up where they do. That way they can say they aren’t paid by Hyundai but indirectly they will make revenue off the views. But what do I know.

[c1pher]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Modern cars suffer from three things, weight/bloat, complication and needless intrusive tech.

There was some value in the 70s when manufacturers went back to basics because cars were becoming too expensive and inefficient. I would love to see cars with basic features that can perform. Manufacturers make a lot less money that way so there’s not a lot of financial incentive. Plus people are willing to go deep into debt overpaying for cars.

[Burrcold]

Originally Posted by c1pher

I think they are becoming borderline clickbaity with their material and really stopped watching them after their M2 review.

At the end of the day they are getting paid to do these reviews, whether it’s from views or by the manufacturers themselves. The manufacturers want positive reviews. Hyundai probably offered them some future exclusive review of a future car and that’s how they end up where they do. That way they can say they aren’t paid by Hyundai but indirectly they will make revenue off the views. But what do I know.

They are no more clickbaity than any other high(er) production YouTube channel. Who out there is being "real"? Expectations from manufacturers is real for all content creators, whether it's car reviews or any other product. You're also talking out of both sides of your mouth if you stopped watching because of their negative review of the M2...are you trying to say BMW didn't pay them enough or incentivize future content potential, so they poorly reviewed the M2?

[afadeev]

Originally Posted by IanH

My experience driving EVs that my family have bought is that they are boring as sin.

Originally Posted by BlkGS

I think a lot of people would argue there aren't really many interesting vehicles left, EV or not.

Do yourself a favor and go to test-driving Audi GT or GT RS.
Let me know if your opinion changes afterward.
'nuf said.

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Modern cars suffer from three things, weight/bloat, complication and needless intrusive tech.

I generally agree.
But we've been drifting down that road since late-80s, with safety standards and electronics revolution enabling all sorts of things that E30s could only dream about.

On the other hand, every subsequent generation of a car (e.g.,///M3's) is quicker, faster, and more luxurious than the predecessor. At the expense of weight and complexity.

Originally Posted by FC4

Some people will believe anything. They're sheep.

Confession accepted.

Originally Posted by FC4

Just follow the money. George Soros is a major investor in Google and he pulls all the strings. He controls the narrative and he's the one behind the push for EVs so he can eventually control the population. I bet anyone who can't connect those dots also believes in "science" too.

You forgot the bits about the space lasers and microchips in vaxines.
You are welcome!

In other notes, dude, maybe it's time to adjust the dosage on the meds?

[BlkGS]

Drove the e Tron GT. It was fine, not worth the money at all though. Like, literally in any way, lol. I feel bad for people buying them.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Drove the e Tron GT. It was fine, not worth the money at all though. Like, literally in any way, lol. I feel bad for people buying them.

The have nutty deals. Last I checked you could get 0% financing and 20k off msrp starting negotiations.

[Donatello.]

Originally Posted by R N M

^
They picked Ionic N not Elantra.

So 2 dudes that drive hardcore manual cars chose an EV SUV as Car of the Year - definitely not by choice.

This.

[gatorfast]

Originally Posted by FC4

Some people will believe anything. They're sheep. Just follow the money. George Soros is a major investor in Google and he pulls all the strings. He controls the narrative and he's the one behind the push for EVs so he can eventually control the population. I bet anyone who can't connect those dots also believes in "science" too.

Can’t tell if this is serious or great satire.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by c1pher

There was some value in the 70s when manufacturers went back to basics because cars were becoming too expensive and inefficient. I would love to see cars with basic features that can perform. Manufacturers make a lot less money that way so there’s not a lot of financial incentive. Plus people are willing to go deep into debt overpaying for cars.

The closest right now is Mazda, and their sales have been increasing. They are not selling basic transport, they have a higher trim quality than your Toyotas of the world but they keep it relatively simple.

[kudos]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

The closest right now is Mazda, and their sales have been increasing. They are not selling basic transport, they have a higher trim quality than your Toyotas of the world but they keep it relatively simple.

Mazda also has great reliability.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by IanH

The have nutty deals. Last I checked you could get 0% financing and 20k off msrp starting negotiations.

It needs to be like 50% off MSRP and 0% financing. Starting price of 110k for a not quite midsize sedan is just absurd. You could have a RS3 and a crappy Model 3 as a commuter for that much.

[IanH]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

It needs to be like 50% off MSRP and 0% financing. Starting price of 110k for a not quite midsize sedan is just absurd. You could have a RS3 and a crappy Model 3 as a commuter for that much.

Yeah, i guess I should've finished the thought, the residuals on leases are still way over what the car actually drops to. So you can lease it for incredibly favorable terms with the above discounts.

I completely agree it would need to be greater discount for purchase.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by R N M

As I said before I like Throttle House, they are probably one of the best right now. But their whole brand is being hardcore enthusiasts.

There is zero way that they drove an S/T and not thought it was the best car by far. Matt Farrah was begging Porsche for allocation after he drove one, the car is that good.

The Car of the Year is not based on if car is easily obtainable but if its the best. The S/T is a million times better than Ionic N. I don’t mind if Car&Driver chooses it as they are more mainstream but not the guys from Throttle House. This is how you kill your reputation that you worked years to create. I honestly was very put off by their selection.

What I get from their compendium of videos is they like cars that are fun to drive, that excite them. So, how did they described the Ioniq 5N? Here are some quote paraphrasing from this video:

"Actually really fun to drive. Not fun for an EV, but just fun, period."
"The Ioniq 5N being an EV? Don't care, as fun as gasoline cars"
"Genuinely exciting even on the street."

The main criteria for hardcore enthusiasts is the fun to drive factor. This goes back to days when Road & Track (self-described as a car enthusiast publication) selected mostly BMW's in comparison tests and COY even those other cars had better numbers, but they preferred the BMW because they were most fun to drive. Same thing here, it's not a new thing.

Re the Porsche S/T, they specifically said: "It doesn't get 1st place because you can't get them and it's overpriced"

You can certainly argue that attainability should not be a decision factor, but to them it is and, frankly, it makes sense because if it's not attainable, what's the point? But this is their list so they get to make the rules. If you disagree, you're free to make make your own list with your own rules.

[IanH]

I would say that they have to make a cutoff for obtainability, there are any number of cars that are impossible to get either due to rarity or price that would be included if it wasn't. They also haven't driven every car in that category and it's unreasonable to to expect them to.

[ShocknAwe]

I dread the day that manuals are no longer sold and I can't drive my antiques anymore because they're deemed not road legal.

I think I'd rather sit in a self driving car.

I can't draw a sensible connection to their real opinions and their COTY reveal. Other than $$$.

[Alfisti]

I just watched the episode and yeah two things stand out. 1) They actually conceded the S/T is a "better" car but both the price AND the allocation issue means it's really a bit stupid. 2) They actually, very clearly say, "don't buy it because you will lose 40K in a week" due to depreciation of EV's.

So Hyundai dropped of a huge cheque for them to say "don't buy it"? Right.

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I can't draw a sensible connection to their real opinions and their COTY reveal. Other than $$$.

Their big complaint with EV vehicles, other than the still tricky ownership compromises, is the weight. They relentlessly bang on about weight and the 5n is the first EV performance car to come in below 5,000 lbs and is tossable. A M5 is now 5400 lbs for reference and the AMG just under 6,000 lbs.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

Their big complaint with EV vehicles, other than the still tricky ownership compromises, is the weight. They relentlessly bang on about weight and the 5n is the first EV performance car to come in below 5,000 lbs and is tossable. A M5 is now 5400 lbs for reference and the AMG just under 6,000 lbs.

My X5 M50i is 5500lbs for reference. My Trailblazer SS with a 6.0L V8 and AWD is 5200. My V8 F150 Crew Cab with 4x4 and a 5' bed was like 5100 pounds (aluminum body).

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by G30M

.
.
.
.
.
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is the Ioniq 5N

Glad I didn't click the video.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

Gotta make their employers happy. When your boss says "the investment bank that owns the media conglomerate that owns us says you have to push EVa or you're fired", you do it. That's what happened at Jalopnik, and C&D, and Donut, and it's gonna keep happening.

Also, they drove stuff like Miata and old Alfas. Not exactly "hardcore", they drove super lightweight low powered cars. Not like, Shelby Cobras or anything.

Please go on - I believe this entirely but I want to know more. I've long believed the EV media push was an aggressive propaganda effort. It was crazy how many pro telsa articles and websites popped up over night, and outlets/personalities who barely knew what a car as suddenly were reviewing them, declaring them the best car ever.

I knew it was the beginning of the end.

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by R N M

As I said before I like Throttle House, they are probably one of the best right now. But their whole brand is being hardcore enthusiasts.

There is zero way that they drove an S/T and not thought it was the best car by far. Matt Farrah was begging Porsche for allocation after he drove one, the car is that good.

The Car of the Year is not based on if car is easily obtainable but if its the best. The S/T is a million times better than Ionic N. I don’t mind if Car&Driver chooses it as they are more mainstream but not the guys from Throttle House. This is how you kill your reputation that you worked years to create. I honestly was very put off by their selection.

I beg to differ on being the best. I prefer the smaller channels with home made builds. Best Motoring was the best at enthusiast car reviewing - stuff that spun off from doughnut and Gears and Gasoline do great with stuff enthusiast really want to see.

All these channels are is advertisement for the highest bidder which is Hyundai. Crap cars, crap company

[AmuroRay]

Originally Posted by ASAP

i feel like all online reviewers these days have some sort of bias that is skewed by whether they will get more of the manufacturers cars or not...

that being said... a single car of the year has always been a bizarre thought to me... i would break this out as ICE vs EV and then down into categories, sports car, luxury car, suv etc

Fred is a mouth breather and probably a French Canadian, so that's like 10000 strikes against him. But I enjoy it when he goes after Tesla with his very effeminately aggressive manner that he does.

He used to post on some other places and he was insufferable to speak to.