[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by quagmire

BMW is as guilty for stealing design cues as much as GM is( the Lexus LS like rear on the new 7 series). Every car maker steals cues from each other. It's a fact of life.

Yeah look at the Bangle Butt. Everyone hated it, yet all carmakers eventually mimicked it. It happens all the time. If car companies were only allowed to use ideas that originated with them, we'd have nothing but shit to choose from.

[Seminole]

Originally Posted by Neon01

Keep in mind I said "quality of materials". I'm not talking about all the extra features and such, but to my hand the leather feels more supple, the steering wheel more rich, the fit and finish just a bit better.

And yes, I have been in a CTS-V. Not sure I care what you think about my credibility. The arguments are there. If you want to quibble over this minor detail which has nothing to do with the Camaro anyway, considering the CTS-V is about twice the price, fine.

C'mon man, first you quipped about doubting the handling prowess of the Camaro:

Originally Posted by Neon01
Not sure why this is somehow going to be the magic bullet for GM. I've got my money on a slightly cheaper and slightly lighter (with chintzy interior to match) version of the G8 or former GTO. The weight loss will be nice, but somehow I'm doubting this will suddenly become the cornering monster that it's presumed to be in this thread.

The fact that everyone who has tested it and it's ring lap prove it is good in the corners.

Then you switched to interiors (and you brought up the CTS-V vs 128i). Oh, and you never mentioned quality.

Look at the old F-bodies, they didn't handle for shit. Straight line acceleration is something else, but domestics don't have a great record of making great numbers with hp. Unless this thing is about 3100 pounds, I'll believe the 4.7 0-60 when I see it. Otherwise I'll just assume it'll compete directly with the Ford Mustang, just like it used to.

Also, the doubting of the 4.7 second 0-60 is stupid. Why would GM lie, could you imagine the backlash if it didn't live up to the stated numbers? I bet if BMW came out and said so and so car gets to 60 in X amount of seconds you would take them for their word. And not one single component is shared with the old F-Bodies. Why the hell would you even mention what a 10 year old car handles like when the new Camaro has an entire different chassis, suspension, everything.

[Neon01]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

How you saw a parallel (besides the cheap interior, which on old f-bodies and even current Corvettes is indeed an issue) between a vette and a V-6 Maro is completely beyond me.

Same numb steering, same shifter feel, same seats, same cockpit layout, better gauges, sat lower, much more power, better turn in and much less body roll, much more grip at the limit. I'm not sure what to tell you, but I was dead set on buying one (had spoken to the dealer about putting down the deposit after the test drive) and I walked away from the test drive without giving it another thought. I understand they really improved the steering feel a year or two later though, so maybe that would have changed things. No question they present tremendous value though.

Originally Posted by ragingclue

I tell you what, though, I would get a CTS-V in a heartbeat over an ///M3.

Agreed, if for no other reason than the performance difference and aesthetics. That said, there are some things I like about the M3 better (EDC and DCT to name a few)

[mike-y]

The camaro is all about cheap power. What other car can you get with 400+hp for $30k? While the interior may not be up to german luxury quality, that car is going to haul balls, and that's what camaros are supposed to do. Would I buy one? probably not, as I don't need/want a car like that right now, but there is a big market of people who want to go fast for cheap, do it with a a big tried and proven V8, and don't care much about stroking the dashboard and running their hands on supple leather surfaces.

The car is meant to look cool and go fast. its not meant to be a bmw competitor or a luxury coupe. I should handle well enough, as it's time on the ring suggests, but the people who buy this car aren't as concerned about lap times as they are with 1/4 mile times. Look at how many mustangs there are on the road, and they don't handle particularly well. you can talk about turns until you turn blue in the face, but unless you track your car often, get used to looking at Camaro tail lights

[ragingclue]

Originally Posted by Neon01

Same numb steering, same shifter feel, same seats, same cockpit layout, better gauges, sat lower, much more power, better turn in and much less body roll, much more grip at the limit. I'm not sure what to tell you, but I was dead set on buying one (had spoken to the dealer about putting down the deposit after the test drive) and I walked away from the test drive without giving it another thought. I understand they really improved the steering feel a year or two later though, so maybe that would have changed things. No question they present tremendous value though.



Agreed, if for no other reason than the performance difference and aesthetics. That said, there are some things I like about the M3 better (EDC and DCT to name a few)

OK well I guess I wouldn't buy or consider a Corvette unless performance was my only interest. I personally didn't mind the shifting, but I agree the steering could have been better. But, overall, as a performance automobile, it's batshit fast. And that's all I would care about when shopping for one.

[mike-y]

Originally Posted by Neon01

Same numb steering,

... I understand they really improved the steering feel a year or two later though, so maybe that would have changed things. No question they present tremendous value though.

Actually, I have to agree with Neon here. The earlier C6 had a vague steering feel. Some of it might have been the runflats, but I drove my friend's '06 (I think) at Willow Springs, and it took me a while to get a feel for the limits of the car because the steering didn't communicate very well what was happening with the tires. it has grip, just not the initial confidence I felt in my track car or some other cars I have driven. I haven't driven a newer C6 yet, but I read they changed out the rack completely, and improved feel tremendously.

[Crimson92]

Originally Posted by methodtim

The only way I'm buying a Camaro is if that shit transforms into Bumblebee, he and I become BFF, and he gets Megan Fox to ride my knob.

Alright, I'll take any two of the three.

[Neon01]

Originally Posted by Seminole

Then you switched to interiors (and you brought up the CTS-V vs 128i). Oh, and you never mentioned quality.

Taken in context:

While recent models from GM have been getting better than previous models from an interior quality standpoint, there's no way you can honestly say that they compete with German or even Japanese makes. Even the high dollar CTS-V does not have an interior as fine as a 128i, similarly equipped (leather for leather, etc).

Given that the preceding sentence was all about quality, I kept going with that thought. I even put in the example, viz a viz "leather for leather" to attempt to make it more clear. In retrospect, I shouldn't have mentioned this at all because it's 100% irrelevant to a thread devoted to the Camaro.

Also, the doubting of the 4.7 second 0-60 is stupid. Why would GM lie, could you imagine the backlash if it didn't live up to the stated numbers? I bet if BMW came out and said so and so car gets to 60 in X amount of seconds you would take them for their word. And not one single component is shared with the old F-Bodies. Why the hell would you even mention what a 10 year old car handles like when the new Camaro has an entire different chassis, suspension, everything.

I'm not saying they're lying, but lets face it, no matter what they claim today, they can wiggle out of by claiming they're referring to pre-production test units. US and Japanese automakers aren't known for underrating their specs, whereas German makes are. Ford certainly got nailed with the whole "320 hp" Mustang thing, and the blow back wasn't devastating. And yes, I absolutely doubt everything BMW says too until the test units are production models that have been in the hands of customers and reviewers all over the country.

I never said the new model wasn't going to handle well, but people are already predicting it'll be an M3-killer (which is no slouch) in Z28 trim without even seeing a production model. Who knows if the Z28 will even have different suspension, they never did before, did they? I also explained that the f-bodies of 10 years ago were largely competitive with the mustangs of their day. Perhaps the new Camaro will come out and simply dominate the current Mustang, as so many in this are implying, but all I'm saying is "lets see".

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by mike-y

The car is meant to look cool and go fast. its not meant to be a bmw competitor or a luxury coupe. I should handle well enough, as it's time on the ring suggests, but the people who buy this car aren't as concerned about lap times as they are with 1/4 mile times. Look at how many mustangs there are on the road, and they don't handle particularly well. you can talk about turns until you turn blue in the face, but unless you track your car often, get used to looking at Camaro tail lights

This is the simple reality of the situation. Everyone here likes to talk lap times as if they're the more important aspect of a fast street car, but the simple truth is the percentage of BMWs that actually pull track duty on an regular basis is extremely small, even among enthusiasts.

As you said, the Camaro will hold it's own in the turns, and will SHINE in the Stoplight Grand Prix.

All that said, I can't wait to demonstrate to some of the new owners what a BMW looks like with a JB3 strapped to the ECU.

[Neon01]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

As you said, the Camaro will hold it's own in the turns, and will SHINE in the Stoplight Grand Prix.

Agree 100%

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by 92tripleblack

Will be in a straight line. First curve would tell a different story.

How do you know? The Camaro SS beats the crap out of the 335i on the ring.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by Seminole

You lost all credibility there. You probably have never sat in a CTS-V or you have to be blind. Every car mag (and from my own personal experience) talks about what a great interior the car has. To say a 128i is better is a joke.

Anyone who calls themselves "BMW Nut" isn't going to have a very valid opinion when discussing other brands.

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by runnerx

The new Camaro makes 20" wheels look like 16"s... It is another big fat boat from Chevy.

One that would tool a 330i on the track easily.

[Couch]

I like the fact that I can have the feel/growl of an big V8 and get the same mileage I get in the 335.

Can't wait to take a test drive.

[Dumb Bass]

Originally Posted by ragingclue

Yeah look at the Bangle Butt. Everyone hated it, yet all carmakers eventually mimicked it. It happens all the time. If car companies were only allowed to use ideas that originated with them, we'd have nothing but shit to choose from.

You are probably right about that. Thank goodness plagiarism in automobile industry is not as strict as the book industry. I guess it is best we wait until we can actually test drive this car before we make an opinion on how cool or how lousy it is.

[jayely1]

Any info on quarter mile times yet?

[jbimmer3]

I really dont see what the hype is about this car. Every camaro before this has been a POS with cheap materials. Shitty gaps. Unruley styling. Why should this be any better. Cause it has a good motor? I would not buy a cobalt with a vet motor and i would not buy this!


Maybe Bmw needs to hop on the bandwagon and the next 3 series can be a "Revised" E30, Screw going forward with designs, lets go backwards and soon we can all rock the "Model T" again. Yay!

[Fraxum]

Some here need to think out of the BMW box a bit more. For most the Camaro and 3 series will not be direct competitors. The Camaro is less about pretense and more about fun. 3s are also fun to drive but are over priced. They are of a higher quality and are more expensively engineered, as they should be given the price difference. But BMWs are no more reliable than a Chevy and maybe less so. The Camaro does give you LSD stock!

The Camaro SS is faster in all ways than a stock 335. Get yourself at least a JB+ and then it's even money.

The Z28 if they build it will be faster than all BMWs.

And lastly the Camaro will not save GM. They will have to start building more every day cars that people want to buy rather than huge trucks. We all should hope GM survives.

[jeremyc74]

Originally Posted by jhondas2

I really dont see what the hype is about this car. Every camaro before this has been a POS with cheap materials. Shitty gaps. Unruley styling. Why should this be any better. Cause it has a good motor? !

No, because people who have been paying attention know that GM is attempting to stage a huge turnaround, and is offering SERIOUS performance for the money. The days of the horrible interiors are gone. Every new model GM has released in the last 3 years has an interior that is on par with, or better than, anything else in it's price/performance range.

The styling is subjective. You say you don't like it, but I'm betting you never really gave it a chance anyway. It could look like a Ferrari and you'd still hate it becasue it's coming from GM.

For an individual who is looking for performance value for his dollar, you simple can not beat GM right now. They own the "Bang for the Buck" award in just about every single performance catagory in the marketplace where they choose to compete.

ZR1
Z06
Z51 Vette
CTS-V
Camaro SS
Solstice/Sky Turbo
Cobalt SS

If you're not interested in performance value for the money, their cars are probably not the right choice for you, but you should realize that there are a TON of people who are interested in them that are a little more open minded about the situation, and can see the turnaround for what it is.

[TTG]

Originally Posted by -=Hot|Ice=-

The new Chevy Camero has "White LED Halo rings" It looks hot!

That thing is a nice beast. Thoughts?


Offical Camero Site:

http://www.chevrolet.com/allnewcamaro/#




http://www.motorauthority.com/chevy-...camaro-rs.html

BTW, it is CAMARO...... I believe they call them CamEros in the trailer parks....

[NewSong]

Originally Posted by jeremyc74

No, because people who have been paying attention know that GM is attempting to stage a huge turnaround, and is offering SERIOUS performance for the money. The days of the horrible interiors are gone. Every new model GM has released in the last 3 years has an interior that is on par with, or better than, anything else in it's price/performance range.

The styling is subjective. You say you don't like it, but I'm betting you never really gave it a chance anyway. It could look like a Ferrari and you'd still hate it becasue it's coming from GM.

For an individual who is looking for performance value for his dollar, you simple can not beat GM right now. They own the "Bang for the Buck" award in just about every single performance catagory in the marketplace where they choose to compete.

ZR1
Z06
Z51 Vette
CTS-V
Camaro SS
Solstice/Sky Turbo
Cobalt SS

If you're not interested in performance value for the money, their cars are probably not the right choice for you, but you should realize that there are a TON of people who are interested in them that are a little more open minded about the situation, and can see the turnaround for what it is.

This post gives me faith that these forums are not doomed to be overrun by fanboys!

[Hula-Hula]

Originally Posted by NewSong

One that would tool a 330i on the track easily.

And a Ford Focus FYI
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