[BTM]

Originally Posted by mklimis

VISA and Mastercard are publicly traded companies. A company deciding whom to do business with based on the interest of a small group or government is fundamentally wrong on many levels. Not to mention a governments ability to silence those they cannot defeat in court with intimidation and technological extortion. Anonymous is fighting what they have for a long time, Censorship and Net Neutrality.

Wikileaks is just a messenger and not the culprit. So why are we shooting the messenger?

I don't have stock in any of these companies. I use them as they are widely accepted forms of payment, but beyond that I'm unaffected. They can absolutely act in the interest of a small group - that small group is themselves and their shareholders. Pressure from the government, interest groups, lobbyists, whatever it is, they are free to make their own decisions on who to do business with. The reasoning behind which is only relevant to those with something to lose from it, the employees and shareholders. Being publicly traded doesn't change anything, no one is forcing you to invest in them.

If they had been successful in causing the financial disruption they intended to, anonymous would've effectively "censored" millions of individuals and businesses right to conduct business at their own will, under a mutually agreed upon contract for payment. Their reasoning behind these hacks contradicts their entire purpose. When a member of anonymous or 4chan successfully runs their own international micro-lending institution, they can do so as they see fit.

[Kroy]

Originally Posted by stimpy

Any other IT nerds out there find it funny that the same guy who asks why 4Chan is still up - is talking about how DoS attacks aren't complicated to do? :P

Can I get a link to the Anarchists Cookbook?

found a link on google for you. i read it as a word document like 10+ years ago.

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/pdfs/...okbook2000.pdf

[stimpy]

Originally Posted by Kroy

found a link on google for you. i read it as a word document like 10+ years ago.

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/pdfs/...okbook2000.pdf

I was kidding :P but thanks.

[mklimis]

Originally Posted by BTM

I don't have stock in any of these companies. I use them as they are widely accepted forms of payment, but beyond that I'm unaffected. They can absolutely act in the interest of a small group - that small group is themselves and their shareholders. Pressure from the government, interest groups, lobbyists, whatever it is, they are free to make their own decisions on who to do business with. The reasoning behind which is only relevant to those with something to lose from it, the employees and shareholders. Being publicly traded doesn't change anything, no one is forcing you to invest in them.

I simply pointed that out because you referred to those companies on the first page as private and thus somehow justifying their actions. Private entities are allowed to support whatever the fuck they want
I'm sorry that you see nothing wrong with how these companies are handeling this agenda.

Originally Posted by BTM

If they had been successful in causing the financial disruption they intended to, anonymous would've effectively "censored" millions of individuals and businesses right to conduct business at their own will, under a mutually agreed upon contract for payment.

Anonymous targeted online transactions and the corporate domains. I don't believe they attacked or wanted to disrupt the use of the network that handles authorization of credit card charges for retail applications.

Anonymous is trying to punish these financial institutions by hurting them where it counts, their wallets. As a biproduct of such actions, consumers may be limited in spending power for the time being but surely it is a small price to pay to insure that you can spend your money where you please as you please.

Originally Posted by BTM

Their reasoning behind these hacks contradicts their entire purpose. When a member of anonymous or 4chan successfully runs their own international micro-lending institution, they can do so as they see fit.

Their reasoning of supporting Net Neutrality?
Their reasoning of fighting Censorship?
Their reasoning of not condoning the actions of governments taken against Wikileaks to stop the spread of "embarrassing" documents?

[bmwmthree]

Originally Posted by ideliver

clearly there are some capable individuals there...all they needed was a little direction...

they're probably using their work's servers so i wouldn't say "talented," more like resourceful.

[bmwmthree]

Originally Posted by Vanity

No they don't lol. DoS attacks aren't exactly "complicated" to do. It's just sending a bunch of junk and overloading the servers. But I'll tell you know, a Multi-billion dollar financial institution sure-the-fuck is going to find where these 4Chan hackers are coming from and most likely arrest them.

exactly.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by mklimis

I simply pointed that out because you referred to those companies on the first page as private and thus somehow justifying their actions. Private entities are allowed to support whatever the fuck they want
I'm sorry that you see nothing wrong with how these companies are handeling this agenda.

I don't. They can make whatever decisions they fell are best for them. Based upon these, I will make up my own mind about whether or not I will still use them. At this point I will. Just because a company is publicly traded does not mean they are not a private company. Public = gov't, private = else.

Anonymous targeted online transactions and the corporate domains. I don't believe they attacked or wanted to disrupt the use of the network that handles authorization of credit card charges for retail applications.

Anonymous is trying to punish these financial institutions by hurting them where it counts, their wallets. As a biproduct of such actions, consumers may be limited in spending power for the time being but surely it is a small price to pay to insure that you can spend your money where you please as you please.

If they are trying to hurt their wallets, they are attacking every transaction, for which the companies reap a small (believe 1.5% give or take) fee for. I am not defending the companies' decisions, rather their right to make it. I actually agree with both of anon's missions, but I will not condone their actions. Part of allowing net neutrality is letting entities with their own agenda, good or bad, act within said agenda, and not have to worry about a band of self righteous hackers jamming shit up.

It's like this - If you're mad enough at your car, you don't buy the same one one. If you're mad enough at your credit company, you don't use them again.

[mklimis]

Originally Posted by BTM

I am not defending the companies' decisions, rather their right to make it. I actually agree with both of anon's missions, but I will not condone their actions. Part of allowing net neutrality is letting entities with their own agenda, good or bad, act within said agenda, and not have to worry about a band of self righteous hackers jamming shit up.

Your arguement doesn't make sense.

Censorship is suppression of speech or other communication which may be considered objectionable, harmful, sensitive, or inconvenient to the general body of people as determined by a government, media outlet, or other controlling body.

Government censorship = Supported by Credit Card Company X = is still censorship.

That's like you saying that you are against a company scamming its employees but support the company's right to do it for personal gain or agenda. And then if they don't like it then they can find another employer.

Originally Posted by BTM

It's like this - If you're mad enough at your car, you don't buy the same one one. If you're mad enough at your credit company, you don't use them again.

No. Those are very poor analogies.

How about this, let's say that VISA and MASTERCARD say that they will no longer do business in the area of Lakeview CHICAGO and Wrigley Field because this area is referred to as "Boystown" and they do not want to been seen as supporting or condoning any gay activities.

Not everyone has the luxury of switching credit cards so easily. Even if all these people could what if the rest of those few credit card companies do the same?

[Spool]

Collins what is the source of your signature...is there a longer vid to it? that dude looks like he's seriously hurt after getting shoved like that..lol

[radix]

Originally Posted by ideliver

clearly there are some capable individuals there...all they needed was a little direction...

now if only they good hack BMWFS and make the rest of my loan go away

Originally Posted by bmwmthree

they're probably using their work's servers so i wouldn't say "talented," more like resourceful.

They're using LOIC. It's not hard, it doesn't take talent, and it doesn't mean they're particularly capable.

[BTM]

Originally Posted by mklimis

Government censorship = Supported by Credit Card Company X = is still censorship.

Companies make politically motivated decisions all the time, as well they should. It's a very real consideration. And AFAIK the official statements cited terms of violation use similar to what Amazon stated.

How about this, let's say that VISA and MASTERCARD say that they will no longer do business in the area of Lakeview CHICAGO and Wrigley Field because this area is referred to as "Boystown" and they do not want to been seen as supporting or condoning any gay activities.

Well this is a poor analogy too. Not only is Boystown a very specific part in Lakeview, but not everyone who lives there is guaranteed to be gay, rather homosexuality prevails at a higher rate than elsewhere in the city, where homosexuality exists as well.

On the contrary, wikileaks is (was?) a very specific target, with questionable dealings and a history of negative perception. Sort of like people with bad credit. Credit cards won't authorize one with bad credit - they would be a bad customer. Wikileaks also became a bad customer, so they cut it off.

[CollinsE90]

Originally Posted by Spool

Collins what is the source of your signature...is there a longer vid to it? that dude looks like he's seriously hurt after getting shoved like that..lol

I havent been able to find it, it appeared on Tosh and he got up after but idk where the original vid is, pretty sure the gif is sped up to appear much worse

Originally Posted by radix

They're using LOIC. It's not hard, it doesn't take talent, and it doesn't mean they're particularly capable.

Im really scared of what you could do if you were mad at a company or person

[mklimis]

Originally Posted by BTM

Companies make politically motivated decisions all the time, as well they should. It's a very real consideration. And AFAIK the official statements cited terms of violation use similar to what Amazon stated.






Well this is a poor analogy too. Not only is Boystown a very specific part in Lakeview, but not everyone who lives there is guaranteed to be gay, rather homosexuality prevails at a higher rate than elsewhere in the city, where homosexuality exists as well.

On the contrary, wikileaks is (was?) a very specific target, with questionable dealings and a history of negative perception. Sort of like people with bad credit. Credit cards won't authorize one with bad credit - they would be a bad customer. Wikileaks also became a bad customer, so they cut it off.

[BTM]

Or because you have no rebuttal. Thank you, come again.

[mklimis]

Originally Posted by BTM

Or because you have no rebuttal. Thank you, come again.

Haha I just don't have the energy anymore to argue with you

[BTM]

Originally Posted by mklimis

Haha I just don't have the energy anymore to argue with you

That didn't take much, you just started. TBH I was pissed you bumped this I gotta better things to do posting in lolpic thread

[mklimis]

Originally Posted by BTM

That didn't take much, you just started. TBH I was pissed you bumped this I gotta better things to do posting in lolpic thread

I do enjoy the LOL Pic thread

[brocken]

What's really stupid about the attack is their motivation is because of "censorship"...
I guarantee you the services that were pulled because that knob violated terms of service.

Leaking classified information is treason. Even if some guy feels he is entitled to sharing that information. It's very simple, it's called a LAW.

And the low tech denial of service is created by a bunch of nuthugger lemmings.
If you actually wanted to stand for something and fight for the freedom of speech "you're doing it wrong!"

And I find it really funny that somebody correlated this even to our Nation's revolution...
There's a principal of freedom worth fighting for in the right situation... and then there's a bunch of halfcocked morons looking for an excuse to vent their nerd frustration.

[Year's_End]

Originally Posted by quagmire

I agree. People need to grow up.....

+1234567890

[ideliver]

Originally Posted by radix

They're using LOIC. It's not hard, it doesn't take talent, and it doesn't mean they're particularly capable.

but this is the first thing they have saw anything out to completion...point being, that they have matured from sharing porn and beating level 13...

nothing is impossible in this world from a person who is motivated and given the necessary resources and time...

[radix]

Originally Posted by ideliver

but this is the first thing they have saw anything out to completion...point being, that they have matured from sharing porn and beating level 13...

nothing is impossible in this world from a person who is motivated and given the necessary resources and time...

They did ruin the life of Dusty the cat's tormenter.

[Mighty M]

Anonoymous / 4chan is awesome. Much win. Go dudes go!