[scottwww]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

I VOTE FOR TRINIDAD & TOBAGO! the cost of living is insanely low here! i live like a king for 2,500 US a month. but thats because my house and car is paid off already.actually, i could live here for 1400 a month like a king, but car insureance, health insureance, house insureance adds up. and so does the eating out almost every day. lol but ive got a house on the beach, my garage is INSIDE of the house,if u understand what im saying. like i walk out of my room, and across from me is a perfect, sexy, tempting Alpine white 320i E90. and my house is DIRT cheap. and yet looks amazing. it cost me (my dad) bought it @ 100K. the local food here is excellent, mostly indian, but alot of food is a fusion of spanish/arab, etc. because trinidad has.... i would say the most ethnical variety in such a small country. we have people from every single country here in large numbers. Trinidad is a tropical paradise! even the homeless are kind! they dont even harass you. and what i love is i can get a sack of a bunch of exotic fruits here for 1 US dollar. lol! lovely place trinidad is. i would not live anywhere else in the world. america is too fast paced. here, you can enjoy every single moment. IM A SOCA WARRIOR! hahaha we tried at FIFA. Only carribean country to make it in the World Cup, gj guys!

Originally Posted by findtom

Some pics of your place/area would be awesome.... life on the beach with a BMW in the garage sounds pretty good.

Yes. Post pictures please. And write something about life on the island.

[scottwww]

It is difficult to write about life in America, because it is all so obvious what the middle-class lifestyle is like. Though it may not be so obvious if you don't live here.

What is so great about being middle-class in the United States?

• Long life: Life expectancy is 77.9 years.
• Work 5 days a week and have two days off. Paid vacation and holidays.
• As a middle-class family, you can own your home and multiple cars.
• You can pursue your interests freely, whether that is pursuit of career, partying, shopping, protesting, cocooning.
• Individual sports: hunting, skiing, fishing, surfing, biking
• Competitive sports: golf, auto racing, tennis
• Team sports: volleyball, bowling, bicycling
• Spectator sports: football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer
• Recreational vehicles: many kind of motor boat and non-motorized boats, snowmobiles, all terrain vehicles, motorcycles
• Religious freedom: Christian protestant, Catholic, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, Mormon, new age, atheist, and many others.
• Clubs and civic organizations: Motorcycle and car enthusiasts, parent/teacher associations, charities
• Community entertainment: Concerts, theatre, movie films, comedy, dining, festivals
• Home entertainment: Sattelite and cable television, radio and recorded music, parties, video games, internet
• Keep pets: dogs, cats, birds, aquarium, rodents, lizards, snakes
• You can live in your choice of many very different climates: Tropical Hawaii, subtropical Florida, temperate California, Arizona desert, Washington rainforest, Alaskan tundra, Rocky Mountains, concrete jungle, and many other places.
• There is no restriction for what state you would live in. You can freely travel among the states. There are no tariffs between the states. The states retain many rights of self-regulation and taxation, so if you pursue it, there may be a perfect fit for you.
• Upward mobility: You and your children may be able to rise to higher class living standards.

In the American middle-class, you may not be able to enjoy all these things, but most should be accessible to you.

[Revlis]

Originally Posted by oneshare325

Seattle, WA. It is far enough from home but not too far! Plus I love rain!

This is kinda weird But I am a clean freak, in between Jerry Seinfeld and Monk, and for some reason I associate rain with clean!

Weird reasons huh??

I love the rain, I love it up here. I have Mountains 2 distinct ranges, and water alternating between those. All within 30 minutes. I can Ski and Surf in the same day.

Best part is that it's still kinda affordable and it's not full of Self absorbed Money obsessed crap heads. It's nearly perfect... So long as you don't mind rain.

So Yeah, I'd scale back a little and stay right where I'm at, it's nearly paradise.

[Kiemyster]

Originally Posted by scottwww

Yes. Post pictures please. And write something about life on the island.

MOST DEF.! i love promoting my country because it truly is a paradise. how to imbed pics on here? ill hook it up

[scottwww]

Originally Posted by Kiemyster

MOST DEF.! i love promoting my country because it truly is a paradise. how to imbed pics on here? ill hook it up

When you are posting your reply, or quote (not Quick Reply), then scroll down the page to the Additional Options section (if it isn't there, then click on the Advanced button and scroll down). Click on Manage Attachments. Click on Browse... and find the file you want to upload. Click on Upload. Once your attachment is finished uploading, scroll down and click on Close this window. Scroll down and click on Submit Reply.

[scottwww]

The best countries for the middle-class as of 3/16/2007 at 4:10 AM GMT are:

30 United States
17 Australia
13 Canada
8 Italy
8 Switzerland

World Grand Prix schedule

United States Grand Prix - June 17, 2007
F1 Australian Grand Prix - March 18, 2007
Grand Prix du Canada / Grand Prix of Canada - June 10, 2007
Formula 1 Italian Grand Prix - September 9, 2007
Bremgarten is where they used to race in Switzerland. There are no tracks today.

[daheechang]

Originally Posted by spacedogg

You don't own a jet black car that's why.

lol i own a jb e90 but i absolutely love seattle. would not live anywhere else. The rain is great but yea owning a black car is hard work in the nw but it's worth it.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by scottwww

It is difficult to write about life in America, because it is all so obvious what the middle-class lifestyle is like. Though it may not be so obvious if you don't live here.

What is so great about being middle-class in the United States?

• Long life: Life expectancy is 77.9 years.
• Work 5 days a week and have two days off. Paid vacation and holidays.
• As a middle-class family, you can own your home and multiple cars.
• You can pursue your interests freely, whether that is pursuit of career, partying, shopping, protesting, cocooning.
• Individual sports: hunting, skiing, fishing, surfing, biking
• Competitive sports: golf, auto racing, tennis
• Team sports: volleyball, bowling, bicycling
• Spectator sports: football, baseball, basketball, hockey, soccer
• Recreational vehicles: many kind of motor boat and non-motorized boats, snowmobiles, all terrain vehicles, motorcycles
• Religious freedom: Christian protestant, Catholic, Judaism, Islam, Hindu, Buddhism, Mormon, new age, atheist, and many others.
• Clubs and civic organizations: Motorcycle and car enthusiasts, parent/teacher associations, charities
• Community entertainment: Concerts, theatre, movie films, comedy, dining, festivals
• Home entertainment: Sattelite and cable television, radio and recorded music, parties, video games, internet
• Keep pets: dogs, cats, birds, aquarium, rodents, lizards, snakes
• You can live in your choice of many very different climates: Tropical Hawaii, subtropical Florida, temperate California, Arizona desert, Washington rainforest, Alaskan tundra, Rocky Mountains, concrete jungle, and many other places.
• There is no restriction for what state you would live in. You can freely travel among the states. There are no tariffs between the states. The states retain many rights of self-regulation and taxation, so if you pursue it, there may be a perfect fit for you.
• Upward mobility: You and your children may be able to rise to higher class living standards.

In the American middle-class, you may not be able to enjoy all these things, but most should be accessible to you.

Scott,

Some of those are true reasons, some are just wrong. Generally, I do believe that the US is the best place on Earth for the middle class -- the best balanced overall lives for the class. Other countries would not allow you the luxuries we can afford here. However, people are adaptable by nature and they do adapt. Fortunately for them, people in many other (less middle class friendly) countries live and enjoy their lived much better than we do.

So, here are some I disagree with:

Work 5 days a week and have two days off. Paid vacation and holidays.
Actually, many of European countries get at least twice as much of paid vacation as we do. Also, they get about 1 year maternity leave (VERY IMPORTANT in my mind) and a quite lengthy paternity leave (where we get a week or maybe two if your boss is cool.

As a middle-class family, you can own your home and multiple cars.

True, however, again goes with our culture. I greaw up in Europe and our family of 4 was just fine with a single car (VW Golf by the way). City transportation was well organized, and in the US it is rare -- you need a car to pick up the mail from your mailbox!

You can pursue your interests freely, whether that is pursuit of career, partying, shopping, protesting, cocooning.

Again, not true for the other side. You can do all those things in other parts of the world. Actually, your job is much more protected in Europe for example than here. In some countries in EU they cannot just lay you off and give you 1 wk pay per year worked -- you get much more over there. However, that also limits your ability to change jobs late in your career.

Individual sports: hunting, skiing, fishing, surfing, biking
I am not sure I get this one... Do we think those do not exist elsewhere? For example, when I go skiing -- Colorado, Whistler or NE, we usually do 4-6 nights tops. In Europe, I never went for shorter than 2 weeks...

Clubs and civic organizations: Motorcycle and car enthusiasts, parent/teacher associations, charities[*]Community entertainment: Concerts, theatre, movie films, comedy, dining, festivals
Actually, these two are much more common and emphasized elsewhere than here, I must say. And the second one -- I must say with much more taste than here.

You can live in your choice of many very different climates: Tropical Hawaii, subtropical Florida, temperate California, Arizona desert, Washington rainforest, Alaskan tundra, Rocky Mountains, concrete jungle, and many other places.

This is definitely the one we can solely claim -- but the way we keep fighting the wars, more choices could be added -- like bath in the oil pools, and stuff like that... JK

There is no restriction for what state you would live in. You can freely travel among the states. There are no tariffs between the states. The states retain many rights of self-regulation and taxation, so if you pursue it, there may be a perfect fit for you.
Not sure I get this one either. Are there really tariffs going from Quebec to Ontario??? Not that I am aware of any.

Again, most of the advantage the middle class in the US gets is because of the financial freedom and the NET money we take home. Our standard of living is probably the highest in the world. However, it is just the way we do it and the things that are called "fun" for the majority of our middle class that may be the turn off for many.

Here is an example -- my sister lives in a developing country in Europe (Serbia). The country (as some of us know here) went through a lot in the past decade, and it will take decades to recover. The average salary over there (PER MONTH) is about $300 (+/-). BMW328 would cost about $70k over there, a gallon of gas is $6. But, the loaf of bread is 50 cents, milk is cheap, and so on. So, people over there redefine the priorities. She drives a small (relatively new) car that goes at least 45 mpg. She (and her hubby) live in approximately 600 sf. flat that is plenty of room -- to sleep, shower and study or so. But, she gets 6 weeks ov paid vacation. She walks into the doctor's office, and walks out with no bill. She is NEVER at home -- enjoys her life more than I ever did or ever will. She has no worries on her mind -- the life goes day to day (I, by the way already have my ski vacation planned for December). People adapt and prioritize their lives. But again, we do have more options because of $$$. All comes down to $$$.
Oh, by the way she's never been on any anti-depressants or anti-anxiety stuff, she's never walked into the gym... Her life is less worrying and her excercise comes naturally --- walk everywhere and eat a real food, not this fake crap we buy in the stores...

OK, that is it from ne for now.

[scottwww]

Where is it best place to live if you are middle-class?

[mpimping]

hawaii

[scottwww]

Originally Posted by mpimping

hawaii

Tell about it. My next door neighbor moved his family back to Hawaii after leaving the military. After six months he moved back here. He said that prices are too high for everything there. What are the details that make it the best?

[mpimping]

Originally Posted by scottwww

Tell about it. My next door neighbor moved his family back to Hawaii after leaving the military. After six months he moved back here. He said that prices are too high for everything there. What are the details that make it the best?

define middle classed. if I had money to eat and pay rent/mortgage and money for some clothes ect and to go out once in a while hawaii would be great. the weather, the beach, "flowers", do you mean to retire?

[ZJP]

Brazil or Germany.

[scottwww]

Originally Posted by mpimping

define middle classed. if I had money to eat and pay rent/mortgage and money for some clothes ect and to go out once in a while hawaii would be great. the weather, the beach, "flowers", do you mean to retire?

I guess that it would mean middle class for the country where you would be living. Or it could mean middle class for the community where you would be living. Take it either way. It's just good to hear what's great for regular people in different places. If we were talking about where is the best place to be wealthy, we might have a different list.

[Year's_End]

I've been all over Europe, and Switzerland is by far the best in terms of how I percieved the middle-class. I love Australia too. I've been there 11 times.

My votes (and in this order):
1) Switzerland
2) US
3) Australia

[Neurorad]

Thinking about moving, Scott?