[trfortin69]

I've had Porsche's, BMW's, Audi, Mb's and that's the order of preference. IMO

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by RPM90

But, MB and Audi are larger car companies and can afford to create more special models that BMW can't afford as they are a smaller company with a more limited number of offerings.

How are you defining size? Looking at the worldwide sales numbers from 2011, BMW was the biggest:

BMW Group - 1.67M BMW, Mini and Rolls Royce vehicles
Mercedes-Benz - 1,362,908 MB, smart and Maybach vehicles.
Audi - 1,302,659 vehicles (could argue Bentley should be included, but would not affect order)

(BMW was also the top luxury brand in the US, barely edging out MB. The earthquake/tsunami troubles knocked Lexus off the #1 spot for the first time in 11 years).

[BrokenVert]

Originally Posted by jkoral

How are you defining size? Looking at the worldwide sales numbers from 2011, BMW was the biggest:

BMW Group - 1.67M BMW, Mini and Rolls Royce vehicles
Mercedes-Benz - 1,362,908 MB, smart and Maybach vehicles.
Audi - 1,302,659 vehicles (could argue Bentley should be included, but would not affect order)

(BMW was also the top luxury brand in the US, barely edging out MB. The earthquake/tsunami troubles knocked Lexus off the #1 spot for the first time in 11 years).

He meant that the Daimler group and VAG are bigger than simply BMW which is an independent essentially.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by BrokenVert

He meant that the Daimler group and VAG are bigger than simply BMW which is an independent essentially.

Fair enough. I assumed he must have meant that, although his statement "MB and Audi are larger car companies" is somewhat misleading (on the surface).

[sonicbimmer19]

Originally Posted by jkoral

Fair enough. I assumed he must have meant that, although his statement "MB and Audi are larger car companies" is somewhat misleading (on the surface).

WOW. Audi's sales figure is darn close to MB, huh? that's scary. When I was young and growing up (I'm still in 20s lol), it was BMW and MB undisputed. All other brands including Audi and even Lexus and Infiniti weren't even mentioned as luxury cars.

In theory, Audi will catch up to both MB and BMW at least as far as technology and engineering because they share stuff with Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.
But as far as brand goes, I don't think Audi will ever take over MB and BMW. Not in our lifetime at least.

[jkoral]

Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19

WOW. Audi's sales figure is darn close to MB, huh? that's scary. When I was young and growing up (I'm still in 20s lol), it was BMW and MB undisputed. All other brands including Audi and even Lexus and Infiniti weren't even mentioned as luxury cars.

In theory, Audi will catch up to both MB and BMW at least as far as technology and engineering because they share stuff with Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.
But as far as brand goes, I don't think Audi will ever take over MB and BMW. Not in our lifetime at least.

In yesterday's news, the 2015 forecast for BMW/Audi/MB: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...delsblatt-says

From earlier in the year, Audi US sales: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...grab-lead.html

[sonicbimmer19]

Originally Posted by jkoral

In yesterday's news, the 2015 forecast for BMW/Audi/MB: http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...delsblatt-says

From earlier in the year, Audi US sales: http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-0...grab-lead.html

I had no idea Audi sold more than BMW and MB in Western Europe. And China. That's a big WOW.

[bmw1racer]

Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19

And China.

The four rings in the Audi logo must have positive feng shui for the Chinese.

[eezzee]

Audi design is like those Russian dolls - different sizes of the same design. Having owned models from both makes, the Audi feels more solid but offers a numbly competent drive. BMW has better balance, steering feel and more emotional designs.

[UAxDEATH(NYC)]

my 2 cents

my friend bought a brand new Q7 when it just came out. If I say he had a nightmares with her - almost I said nothing. Car was a such crap, that he managed to bring Audi guys from factory to take his car apart. Which they did. he was waiting 3 months for it to be putted a back in 1 piece. 2 Years past. And he bought a second Q7 limited edition S-type (or something like that). Paid twice more money. Everybody already knew him at the Audi so they promised him a completely different car. Guess what ?? same shit.

When I drove it it felt like a BIG mama wagon to me.

BMW aren't the cake either when it comes to the quality of build. There is some questions too. The rattling noise - is fucking killer. The suspension noise annoying. Very cheap design inside. Not even mentioning the "n54 story"

But yet my heart is with bmw.

[nickdpp]

never like audi, alway support BMW, audi's interior design is rubbish (sorry audi fans)

[splitcross]

Just bought a bmw recently. Tried the A4 and compared it to the 328. BMW is truly a driver's car and Audi's are more for luxury + toy gadgets to play with.

[BOSSBMW]

ive been looking at a used '10 A4 Quattro. While the turbo is enjoyable, I still really think my current '06 325I is more fun to drive, not to mention, faster.

[EYE4SPEED]

I've owned 3 A4's (1.8T and 3.0) and 2 S4's (both V8's). Their Quattro awd is much better than the xi/xdrive. The interiors, even on the older B6's blows away the plain BMW interior. The S4 is suppose to compete with the 335xdrive. I test drove it when it came out and happily kept my S4.

So why did I come over to BMW - it had a diesel sedan offering for the US market. If they ever offer an Audi diesel sedan (maybe the A6), I would probably switch back.

[Terraforce1]

It all boils down to personal preference. I for one love Audi's and BMW's. I've owned an A4 and RS4 - which I actually sold to buy my current car, an M3. Despite currently driving a BMW, I would still buy an Audi.

I've never owned a Merc so I cannot comment, but I do feel they are generally targeted at the older crowd even though they have the SLS and AMG models which are beautiful, I haven't seen guys under 35 driving them.

[Shahdog]

What's an Audi?

Strange word...

Not even an acronym

Coolest words are acronyms

FBI
CIA
LOL
DMV

Hence

BMW

[mmm def]

A lot of you guys bashing on Audi are talking about older cars, they have come a LONG way in the last couple of years. I do believe BMW makes a more engaging, exciting car than Audi, but the gap in performance has narrowed recently. They sure do know how to build an interior too. Both have their + and -, both make excellent cars.

[ATX78703]

Unfortunately, Audi is doing in the States what it has long done in other countries - slowly eating into BMW/MB marketshare. That is a fact and quite frankly, it is well deserved.

Lexus/BMW/MB have owned the US market for a long time, but I think Audi is really on the rise.

recent reviews (like C&D) have better liking for Audi's EPS and use of the ZF 8AT better than BMW's. This coming from the car mag, which has notoriously been criticized as being a bimmer-fan-boy. I'm sure we can all tell they have been showing more preference for audi lately.

[Gravitron]

Originally Posted by ATX78703

Unfortunately, Audi is doing in the States what it has long done in other countries - slowly eating into BMW/MB marketshare. That is a fact and quite frankly, it is well deserved.

Lexus/BMW/MB have owned the US market for a long time, but I think Audi is really on the rise.

recent reviews (like C&D) have better liking for Audi's EPS and use of the ZF 8AT better than BMW's. This coming from the car mag, which has notoriously been criticized as being a bimmer-fan-boy. I'm sure we can all tell they have been showing more preference for audi lately.

I think this high-competition scenario is very fortunate. The more of a threat that Audi becomes for BMW and Mercedes, the more that the two big dogs will have to up their game. In the end that means better cars for us, right? Personally the only reason I went with a 135i is because the S3 doesn't exist in the states. If it ever came over I would trade my 1er in the next day. The N54 engine is really fantastic, but the quality of the interior is a joke. I have driven $13,000 econo-boxes that had less rattles and squeaks. Styling-wise, I'm also not a big fan of where BMW is going. Their only saving grace at the moment is stuffing RWD and a twin turbo 3-liter engine into an a-segment car.

[TSM330i]

A good friend of mine jumped the BMW ship when he was looking to upgrade his e46 330. He has a 2011 Audi S4.
We went to Lime Rock last month and we were both in the intermediate/advanced group as we are pretty close in skill level. He does have about twice as many track days as I do, but it just came naturally to me.
Anyway, once we got out on the track it was VERY apparent that his S4 was NOT up to speed. He was just constantly pointing people by and not enjoying himself at all. He pointed me by and I was just gone!
He elected to move down to the beginner group since they were slower cars and not as many on the track. He said at least he could keep up with the other cars where in the intermediate/advanced group he was just watching his rear view mirrors the entire time. This is in no way a reflection of his driving ability. When we go carting, he's usually a tick quicker than me because he weighs about 20lbs less than me.
In the end, I think his new Audi S4 is slower than his e46 330 with coil-overs. I was still quicker than his e46, but it seems the S4 is slower. It just looked ponderous on the track (nose diving and rolling over).

[vwong]

Originally Posted by TSM330i

A good friend of mine jumped the BMW ship when he was looking to upgrade his e46 330. He has a 2011 Audi S4.
We went to Lime Rock last month and we were both in the intermediate/advanced group as we are pretty close in skill level. He does have about twice as many track days as I do, but it just came naturally to me.
Anyway, once we got out on the track it was VERY apparent that his S4 was NOT up to speed. He was just constantly pointing people by and not enjoying himself at all. He pointed me by and I was just gone!
He elected to move down to the beginner group since they were slower cars and not as many on the track. He said at least he could keep up with the other cars where in the intermediate/advanced group he was just watching his rear view mirrors the entire time. This is in no way a reflection of his driving ability. When we go carting, he's usually a tick quicker than me because he weighs about 20lbs less than me.
In the end, I think his new Audi S4 is slower than his e46 330 with coil-overs. I was still quicker than his e46, but it seems the S4 is slower. It just looked ponderous on the track (nose diving and rolling over).

Maybe he wasn't used to the car yet. I've personally taken both my cars (E92 335i and B8 S4) to 3 different tracks, and the S4 was quicker in all 3.

[TSM330i]

Originally Posted by vwong

Maybe he wasn't used to the car yet. I've personally taken both my cars (E92 335i and B8 S4) to 3 different tracks, and the S4 was quicker in all 3.

Nope. This was his third time at the track with the car (10th day) and he drives it daily. He just said he couldn't go any faster with the car.

He was NOTICEABLY slower than most of the cars in our run group. Definitely not the driver.