[KoenG]

BMW, you have become a brand abused by a management of morons. The Z2 will probably be a sales success since girls will buy it, but the brand is diluting and will end up, after one decade, on the level of the Koreans and Chinese. This means most probably, I'll never buy a Bimmer again and will prefer driving a VW Passat soon.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.

You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?! Can't wait!!




Seriously though, the roadster should be the purest car in a manufacturers lineup, a tribute to the past, a car that romanticizes the driving experience, it should be something that makes your arm hair raise. The last car that BMW produced that really did it for me was the Z4M. It was the perfect example of what a modern roadster should be like. While I have no doubt that the Z2 will be a bite the back of your hand beautiful car just like the Z4, it will be a disappointment because it will be a boulevard cruiser just like the Z4.

Now Scott you say that a small RWD roadster is coming, but until I see a prototype I have to assume that what you are saying is false. I hope you understand that it is not personal.

[vasmir]

Originally Posted by ES_TRADER

There are plenty of people in this world that will buy this for the look, price, and/or brand and have no clue what the difference between fwd and rwd is. BMW knows this and they know how to make money

Yep, sales figures don't lie!
http://www.nasdaq.com/article/bmw-de...3#.UPIFUKVtI70

Hey, I'm all for BMW making another small, light, roadster - though I agree, FWD isn't my cup of tea. Then again, I also prefer 3 pedals, and we all know BMW's view on that.

I remember the backlash before the first BMW SUVs came out, as well as the hideous looking GT cars. As long as some of that money being made goes to M vehicles and future super cars, all the better.

For me, as long as BMW keeps making cars like the 1 Series M, M3, and the M5, I don't mind things like this either.

[ozinaldo]

I actually had a very good day until I saw this. It makes me sad.

Looks like maybe I am not going to find any justification (not that I am looking for anyway) to apart with my 1M.

A FWD Roadster from BMW? What is this they just hired people who watch Avatar as art movie and make plans for company's future in their spare time?

[Iron Man]

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

First of all lets get into the fact that BMW already make an fwd car called the MINI which gets rave reviews for its driving dynamics despite being FWD.
BMW have tapped into this by mirroring typical BMW dynamics and steering communication within the new UKL cars.

Having driven a mid-term prototype I can tell you that it will appeal to the driver who in the case of the Active Tourer could have sacrificed a 1er for more flexibility for their family will still have a car that looks,performs and drives like a BMW.

The Roadster plan is very much what I reported earlier - the Z1 is the FWD car. The original project that was to be the Z2 is still Rwd - only the name has changed.

There will be an M Performance Z4 but you need to be patient until BMW launch an M Performance 3/4er first.

I don't care if they make and sell 1 million FWD cars, and happy for them if they do, just don't put the roundel on them. Does Coach sell $50 purses? Does Morton's sell chicken nuggets? I know they need the volume to lower their costs and need FWD for CAFE requirements, but they can still do these things without selling a FWD roadster as a BMW.

[advantage20]

"There is no reason why a front-wheel-drive car can’t offer a similar dynamic experience to a rear-wheel-drive car. The advancement of various driving aids, with features such as electronic differentials, virtually eliminates the influence of drive forces on the steered wheels when done properly.”

Wow. Never thought they would have the nerve to state that...
Ok BMW now you have to answer which is true: whether you mesmerized us for decades with how better a RWD is and all that was bullshit (obviously as drivers we know this isn't bullshit), or all this sudden appraisal of the marvels of FWD is the piece of cr*p (obviously the right answer).
But unfortunately you are never anymore going to sound legit saying how much superior RWD to FWD is. Oh wait, it means there is no more reason to buy BMW over Audi.

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by Iron Man

Does Morton's sell chicken nuggets?

lol

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

You mean massive body roll, a steering system that is not connected to the front wheels, and the engine note played through the speaker system?!?!?!?! Can't wait!!




Seriously though, the roadster should be the most pure car in a manufacturers lineup, a tribute to the past, to romanticize the driving experience, it should be something that makes your arm hair raise. The last car that BMW produced that really did it for me was the Z4M. It was the perfect example of what a modern roadster should be like. While I have no doubt that the Z2 will be a bite the back of your hand beautiful car (as is the Z4) it will be a disappointment because it will be a boulevard cruiser (as is the Z4).

Now Scott you say that a small RWD roadster is coming, but until I see a prototype I have to assume that what you are saying is false. I hope you understand that it is not personal.

Forum statement of the year.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by RickyZone

I'm just going to put this out there. F'CK YOU BMW. You're losing it.

In the most recent years, BMW has done nothing but abandoned all of which represented the sole character of their brand. Buttery smooth straight six engines, rear-wheel drive, and being "The Ultimate Driving Machine". It's all gone/disappearing. BMW has lost their character, striving for market share and economic profit. With the exception of the BMW 1M (which no doubt is an amazing car), the same can even be said regarding the M-division. 2-tonne cars with artificial engine noise playing through the in-car speakers? Give me a break.

Somehow I don't think BMW is that interested in the opinion of someone whose car is now 3 generations old. I don't mean to attack you or make you feel bad for driving an E46, but you are not "the sole character of their brand" and as far as they're concerned you're not likely to be interested in buying the Z2 anyways, so why would they design it to make you happy?

This car would be aimed at the TT's slice of the market, and almost no one looking at a TT is interested in handling at the limit or even anywhere near the limit, weight balance and the added control of rear wheel drive are meaningless to this type of buyer so to them a FWD Z2 would be cheaper, lighter, more fuel efficient, maybe even quicker in a straight line thanks to lower drivetrain losses, and would have more space inside without a transmission and driveshaft running down the middle of the car.

[shanecarmaster1]

The new Lexus GS F Sport is looking pretty bangin' inside and out, and car reviewers tend to prefer it over the new 5 series. A lot of BMW's benchmark spots are being questioned at the moment, and some reviewers and buyers have switched over.

I think BMW makes fine cars, but not compared to what they used to do. I'm the owner of both an M Sport 2001 740i and a newer F02 750Li, I can't tell you how different the cars are and how much I prefer the e38 over the F02. Back in the day, you had the option of ordering a 7 series in Imola Red! It was simply a larger sports sedan instead of a Lexus imitation that makes you feel no passion for driving. Side by side, they're not that much different in length, so don't tell me how it has grown to the point of no return and that's why it's different. The new 5 is the same way. The new 3 is the same way. I had an F10 loaner the other day with TONS more body roll than my old 7 series - what's up with that? It was bouncy, lazy, but still managed to find mountain ranges of bumps to crash over. The only thing I enjoyed about that car was it was quite peppy and good on gas. Hopped into my e38 after and it was so playful, comfortable, and handled in a much more satisfying and raw way.

Back when BMW made cars that looked half decent, you didn't need to have a million dollars in options to make it drive as it should. It was raw, comfortable, sounded good, and had nice amenities with good looks to boot. The exterior design of the e38 started in 1988, and 24 years later, I'd still choose it over mostly everything out there.

I don't know how BMW can't look back and be jealous of what they used to be.

[///MD]

Originally Posted by Remonster

Somehow I don't think BMW is that interested in the opinion of someone whose car is now 3 generations old. I don't mean to attack you or make you feel bad for driving an E46, but you are not "the sole character of their brand" and as far as they're concerned you're not likely to be interested in buying the Z2 anyways, so why would they design it to make you happy?

This car would be aimed at the TT's slice of the market, and almost no one looking at a TT is interested in handling at the limit or even anywhere near the limit, weight balance and the added control of rear wheel drive are meaningless to this type of buyer so to them a FWD Z2 would be cheaper, lighter, more fuel efficient, maybe even quicker in a straight line thanks to lower drivetrain losses, and would have more space inside without a transmission and driveshaft running down the middle of the car.

well said

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Remonster

This car would be aimed at the TT's slice of the market, and almost no one looking at a TT is interested in handling at the limit or even anywhere near the limit, weight balance and the added control of rear wheel drive are meaningless to this type of buyer

Almost no one looking at any BMW cares about that either, but are you honestly going to tell me you would be fine with BMW not paying attention to those things on the other models? I mean why not if no one cares? See that is the problem with letting a company slide on its standards, it will slowly creep through the line up.


And I just want to touch on the first part of your statement even though it was not directed at me. I too own an E46, but I would hope that BMW is listening to me. This is because someday soon I will be looking for a small, sporty, RWD 2-door, so as a future customer BMW should listen to me. Just because we drive an older BMW at the moment does not mean we are unable to or will never buy a new BMW.

[ORIGIN M.]

Confusing to put it bluntly!

So simple english equates to this:

There will be no BMW Z2!

Z1 [FWD] Shared w/MINI

Z3 [RWD] was to be called z2

Z5 [RWD] Z4 moves up market /

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

First of all lets get into the fact that... The Roadster plan is very much what I reported earlier - the Z1 is the FWD car... The original project that was to be the Z2 is still Rwd - only the name has changed...

[PK2348]

if they can't make xdrive handle like a rwd , how are they going to do it to a fwd?
Interesting fact though, they have been profitable lately and showed some record results, so now thye're using this to expand into other segments. I would think it will devalue the brand somewhat. It might make our cars less expensive, that is if they're still making them, and still paying attention to how these cars should perform.
I am curious to what the new infinity G will be like. Anyone knows when its coming out?

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by PK2348

I am curious to what the new infinity G will be like. Anyone knows when its coming out?

It was just leaked today ahead of its Detroit debut, so soon. The Q50 is the successor to the G incase you didn't know that Infiniti redid its naming system.

http://jalopnik.com/5975472/2014-inf...q50-this-is-it

[TheBingoBalls]

This is what happens when you're an independent company and you have other companies like Audi who benefit from VW. Audi is able to create all-aluminum chassis' or chassis that use a lot more more aluminum because of a shared matrix vs. BMW who have to use an aluminum blend or steel because it's too costly for them.

[Remonster]

Originally Posted by bimmerjph

Almost no one looking at any BMW cares about that either, but are you honestly going to tell me you would be fine with BMW not paying attention to those things on the other models? I mean why not if no one cares? See that is the problem with letting a company slide on its standards, it will slowly creep through the line up.


And I just want to touch on the first part of your statement even though it was not directed at me. I too own an E46, but I would hope that BMW is listening to me. This is because someday soon I will be looking for a small, sporty, RWD 2-door, so as a future customer BMW should listen to me. Just because we drive an older BMW at the moment does not mean we are unable to or will never buy a new BMW.

If you have the financial means to buy a newer car but prefer to keep your current one, this likely means that you prefer the old car to what is now available, otherwise you would have been itching to trade up. I just meant that BMW's marketing strategy was less interested in people like you because there are less people like you.

I am actually glad BMW is willing to experiment to make cars that it thinks are better suited to a given market instead of blindly sticking to dogmas, if they were afraid to move away from straight six powerplants for the M5, the E60 and F10 would have been massively outgunned by the competition. If they had stuck to RWD, the X5 M and X6 M would not have been as great as they are (and believe me, they are truly great, people claiming they are not real M cars have never driven them).

I personally wouldn't buy a front wheel drive Z2, but I think such a car would be better in the eyes of its target audience.

[bimmerjph]

Originally Posted by Remonster

If they had stuck to RWD, the X5 M and X6 M would not have been as great as they are (and believe me, they are truly great, people claiming they are not real M cars have never driven them).

Fair points on the rest, but I do disagree with you here. Not with their technical achievement (because they would give Newton a headache), but that they would be worse with RWD. Personally I think think that would decrease a lot of weight and add to its fun factor. Granted it would loose some in overall performance.

[sonicbimmer19]

It's better for BMW to keep up with the new market and survive than to be stubborn about RWD and get into serious financial trouble.

BMW is premium luxury brand, they'd be more exclusive and prestigious if they only had 6/7 series but majority of us wouldn't have a BMW then.
Brands like Maserati and Jaguars, luxury brands with limited lineup have higher chance of failing and it's true; look at their history vs BMW.

I don't give a crap about Audi. That's a brand that started in the 90s.
But I respect and like Mercedes and they have FWD, A and B class.

As long as they still make pure-sex fun RWF roadsters, I guess which would be renamed Z3, it's cool.

We won't know for sure, but currently, BMW's plans with roadsters according to Scott26:

Z1: compact FWD, expand buyers and share cost with Mini. Smart business.(?) ~160inches length

Z3: this is the new (unconfirmed) name for the previously rumored Z2. It will be a soft-top. Market competitor to Mercedes SLK and Audi TT. ~165inches.

Z5: up-marketed/successor to current Z4. It will have hardtop and it will be more of a gran turismo than a pure roadster/sportscar (that's the current reputation of the Z4)
I'm not sure who this car would compete against.. I guess the SL? But I doubt it will be as big or as expensive as the SL

[VANOS]

What the hell is up with this FWD business?! If I wanted a FWD car, i would've switched over to Honda! Not a BMW. When I think of BMW I like to look at them as the Ultimate Driving Experience! The ultimate RWD and AWD sports car. A sports car was never mean't to be FWD. To begin with, FWD cars are not safe what so ever. They can't handle probably. The drive doesn't feel the same as a RWD or AWD sports car. To be honest, what the hell is the point of this car!?!? If you want to make more money, start thinking about bringing back the Z4M rather than a stupid sellout model like the Z2. Useless!! And change the engines with the M5 and M6!! Same bloody engine!! Why!!!!!????? If you wanted the M6 to be the top of the line M model... Why in the hell would you give it the same power and engine as the M5. Not that there is anything wrong with that specific engine, its great! But not for the M6! I expect more out of the engine for the M6! Like more power! Anyways, im getting carried away! But my point here is DONT BE SELLOUTS! -____---

[Gras]

Words 'FWD' and 'Roadster' on the same sentence?? Something's wrong..

[h46pilot]

Originally Posted by sonicbimmer19

It's better for BMW to keep up with the new market and survive than to be stubborn about RWD and get into serious financial trouble.

BMW is premium luxury brand, they'd be more exclusive and prestigious if they only had 6/7 series but majority of us wouldn't have a BMW then.
Brands like Maserati and Jaguars, luxury brands with limited lineup have higher chance of failing and it's true; look at their history vs BMW.

I don't give a crap about Audi. That's a brand that started in the 90s.
But I respect and like Mercedes and they have FWD, A and B class.

As long as they still make pure-sex fun RWF roadsters, I guess which would be renamed Z3, it's cool.

We won't know for sure, but currently, BMW's plans with roadsters according to Scott26:

Z1: compact FWD, expand buyers and share cost with Mini. Smart business.(?) ~160inches length

Z3: this is the new (unconfirmed) name for the previously rumored Z2. It will be a soft-top. Market competitor to Mercedes SLK and Audi TT. ~165inches.

Z5: up-marketed/successor to current Z4. It will have hardtop and it will be more of a gran turismo than a pure roadster/sportscar (that's the current reputation of the Z4)
I'm not sure who this car would compete against.. I guess the SL? But I doubt it will be as big or as expensive as the SL

Get into serious financial trouble? What in god's name are you talking about? BMW just had record sales this year, and it was certainly not due to the sales of a fwd car. I can't believe how people are able to conceive that BMW is doomed if they don't release a fwd car. And Audi was a brand that "started in the 90s"? I'm not even sure if you're trolling or if you're being serious here.

Objectively speaking, I think it's fair to say that BMW is focused (read: obsessed) on staying on top of the luxury vehicle sales market (ie in front of audi, mercedes-benz isn't worth being brought into the discussion at the moment, sales wise). I love BMW, they still make great cars, so does Audi and Mercedes who is stepping up its game as of lately. They're a business, they need to sell cars, I understand that. Hopefully they can retain segments that still appeal to the enthusiasts while they whore out other parts of the brand for sales, you know the cars who got people into the brand because of the driving experience. FWD Z1 that's cheaper and more accessible to people who just "want to own a BMW"? Fine. But give us a light-weight RWD Z3 to go along with it and don't try to sell us your silly claims that you've found a way to make a FWD behave like RWD. FWD cars have come a long way, but a RWD car is still a RWD car.