[bumere90]

I grew up in a different country and moved to the U.S when I was 18. I have been here for over 7 years and have never seen an "aggressive dog" All dogs are friendly. Those that bark and seem dangerous, are actually very kind.
Dogs in America are totally different. I have been bitten so many times in my country, I have been attacked by dogs when I was returning home from school. I know when dogs are aggressive. That rottweiler was in panic and lost. He was confused what was going on and wanted to be with his owner. If it was my dog I know for sure the first thing he would have done is bite of one of the officers...
You are saying don't blame the officer...Come on man....Tell me?? Was it really necessary to fire multiple shots? He could've used taser or kicked the dog..or freaking release the guy..He ain't a criminal..just let him go

[jlstyle]

Originally Posted by Comet

It comes with the job, so yes, it is up to him to deal with it. They get paid more than enough to sit on their ass to give out speeding tickets while stuffing their faces with donuts.

Wow. Ignorant at the fullest. Have some respect for other people rather than sterotyping like a dumb ass high school student.

mental trauma.. wow.. poor little sensitive baby cop. Did the little bite scar you for life? How is a man who is afraid of a dog bite going to defend someone from an armed robber. sheesh.

Cops in America must be all Captain America.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

There's so many things the owner could have done to prevent the situation from happening and saving his dog's life. I can't blame the cop for what he did either. Rottweilers have one of the strongest jaws and can almost break a human hand or arm instantly so you don't just want to wait around and see if he does indeed bite you before taking action.

Can't blame the cop because the dog was a Rottweiler? You going to shoot a pit bull that is running toward you because of it being perceived as a violent breed of dog when in reality, all it was trying to do was say hi?

The dog wasn't aggressive. It wasn't in any motion of tackling the cop and mauling him. Any time the dog went to bite the cop was when the cop approached it. Any other time the dog was just barking and not knowing what was going on. I don't see where others are thinking the dog was ready to tackle him and maul him.

Act on what the dog is doing, not because of a fear due to the breed of the dog. Cops should really be trained on dog mannerisms..... I don't see where the dog intended to attack the cops. Only acted in self defense when the cops approached it.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Only acted in self defense when the cops approached it.

By your own admission, this is where your argument fails. The dog was clearly interfering with the arrest. The cop had to try to move the dog away, and when the cop approached, the dog -- by your admission -- acted in self defense. So what should the cop have done? Let it potentially attack him? The cop does NOT have to wait for the dog to attack first; this isn't international "Rules of Engagement". If the dog presents a reasonable threat of imminent death or bodily injury (which clearly happened when it lunged at the cop), the cop has the right to respond with deadly force. This is the same legal right you and I have if an unknown large dog lunges at you or I or if an armed burglar breaks into your house.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by schoy

By your own admission, this is where your argument fails. The dog was clearly interfering with the arrest. The cop had to try to move the dog away, and when the cop approached, the dog -- by your admission -- acted in self defense. So what should the cop have done? Let it potentially attack him? The cop does NOT have to wait for the dog to attack first; this isn't international "Rules of Engagement". If the dog presents a reasonable threat of imminent death or bodily injury (which clearly happened when it lunged at the cop), the cop has the right to respond with deadly force. This is the same legal right you and I have if an unknown large dog lunges at you or I or if an armed burglar breaks into your house.

Cops should be trained in reading a dog. Does it look like if I leave it alone, all it will do is bark at me? Given the fact the dog won't be aggressive unless approached, means the cops had time to think what to do. There wasn't a life or death split second decision to be made. He had time to USE HIS TRAINING to deal with the situation. Taser the dog. Given the person the idiot they were arresting wasn't of a violent nature or would put into a dangerous situation if they uncuffed so he could secure the dog( with police escort so he couldn't run), that was a viable option.

Instead he kept on trying to approach the dog until finally he was scared enough to panic and shoot it. The dog wasn't doing anything until approached. It didn't look like it was getting ready to attack the cop.

[schoy]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Cops should be trained in reading a dog. Does it look like if I leave it alone, all it will do is bark at me? Given the fact the dog won't be aggressive unless approached, means the cops had time to think what to do. There wasn't a life or death split second decision to be made. He had time to USE HIS TRAINING to deal with the situation. Taser the dog. Given the person the idiot they were arresting wasn't of a violent nature or would put into a dangerous situation if they uncuffed so he could secure the dog( with police escort so he couldn't run), that was a viable option.

Instead he kept on trying to approach the dog until finally he was scared enough to panic and shoot it. The dog wasn't doing anything until approached. It didn't look like it was getting ready to attack the cop.

It wasn't just barking. The dog actually JUMPED out of the car and APPROACHED the officers. It probably would have jumped into the police car when they put the owner there as well. The officers had NO idea what the dog's intent was. It sure looked like the dog was protective of the owner, and clearly presented a danger to themselves. They couldn't just leave it alone.

Also, are you sure the officer was trained to taser a dog? Are you even sure the officer was carrying a taser in the first place?

Finally, let me ask you this: if you were walking outside with your toddler, and someone's Rottweiler approached your kid barking, would you just leave it alone? And if it leaped at you or your kid, and you had a gun, would you not discharge it?

[bumere90]

^I wouldn't...
You are comparing a completely different situation...Come on be real man. It's like comparing a Ferrari with a 3 series.
Even if you jump at me with a knife I would never use a gun against you. Even if it is Justifying to do so, I wouldn't do that.
Because I am pretty confident I can deal with that shit. I don't need a knife or a gun to protect myself. Killing someone is easy, but getting out of the situation takes some balls.
I am able to kick a dog and kill it. I would probably just kick it in the mouth or stomach area and that's it. Most of you have never been in close contact with an aggressive dog. They bark and shit but once you fight them, the back off. After you whack them, they realize they are not as strong.
Do you really have to be trained to taser dogs? No offense, but that sounds plain stupid. If you need a separate training to use your taser against animals, then you don't belong to forces. For your information, almost all 99.9% officers have a real gun and a taser. Do you know why? To use it in situations like that.
Your argument doesn't make any sense.
It is a dog, not a trained assassin. Therefore, you don't use deadly weapons against it, unless it is on top of you and bites the heck out of you.

[Vic311]

Originally Posted by bumere90

Your argument doesn't make any sense.
It is a dog, not a trained assassin. Therefore, you don't use deadly weapons against it, unless it is on top of you and bites the heck out of you.

Really?, so you would require LEOs to wait until they are being bit and attacked. This is what doesn't make any sense

Officers have split seconds to react, and we are talking about an animal not a person. Put any officer in that position and they will err on the side of caution. It wasn't as if they started blasting right when the dog popped out of the car.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by bumere90

^I wouldn't...
You are comparing a completely different situation...Come on be real man. It's like comparing a Ferrari with a 3 series.
Even if you jump at me with a knife I would never use a gun against you. Even if it is Justifying to do so, I wouldn't do that.
Because I am pretty confident I can deal with that shit. I don't need a knife or a gun to protect myself. Killing someone is easy, but getting out of the situation takes some balls.
I am able to kick a dog and kill it. I would probably just kick it in the mouth or stomach area and that's it. Most of you have never been in close contact with an aggressive dog. They bark and shit but once you fight them, the back off. After you whack them, they realize they are not as strong.
Do you really have to be trained to taser dogs? No offense, but that sounds plain stupid. If you need a separate training to use your taser against animals, then you don't belong to forces. For your information, almost all 99.9% officers have a real gun and a taser. Do you know why? To use it in situations like that.
Your argument doesn't make any sense.
It is a dog, not a trained assassin. Therefore, you don't use deadly weapons against it, unless it is on top of you and bites the heck out of you.

You kidding? I guess you are Bear Grylls. But do you think everyone can fight against an animal? People are more scared of wild animals than of dangerous humans. That is why me fighting against animals (with weapons or stick) fear humans less. I've been fighting against dogs, cats (more dangerous than you might think), rams, snakes, eagles and tried horses. Yes they leave you if you dominate them, but first you have to dominate them, and if you fail I sware you are in danger. I'd shit myself against a bull. Really don't expect everybody to know how to deal with animals in a confrontation.

If the police officer would kick the dog, and the dog would get silent, or if the police officer would tazer the dog, the public's reation would be the same, not expecting that there is a final solution, shoot it down.

[BMW269]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Cops should be trained in reading a dog. Does it look like if I leave it alone, all it will do is bark at me? Given the fact the dog won't be aggressive unless approached, means the cops had time to think what to do. There wasn't a life or death split second decision to be made. He had time to USE HIS TRAINING to deal with the situation. Taser the dog. Given the person the idiot they were arresting wasn't of a violent nature or would put into a dangerous situation if they uncuffed so he could secure the dog( with police escort so he couldn't run), that was a viable option.

Instead he kept on trying to approach the dog until finally he was scared enough to panic and shoot it. The dog wasn't doing anything until approached. It didn't look like it was getting ready to attack the cop.

Cops should be trained, but owners too should be trained. That is the problem with a nation letting others to do the job (government, army, police, judges) because they don't do it themselves, and when they work is badly done by those, all they can do is complain.

[Amini77]

I don't see anything wrong with what the cop did. The guy was asking for trouble..he comes blasting his music windows rolled down, stops the car (music still on), gets out of the car hiding behind his big dog and recording the scene..now there's nothing wrong with recording it but if you read the report he was yelling at the officers "where the black cops at?!" First of all why the hell are you messing with cops around Hawthorne, that's a tough area and cops crack down hard. Secondly, I know a couple black cops..the problem isn't that they don't hire black cops so what's the other problem? Think about it for a cool minute. Dude you're 52 freaking years old sagging your pants walking around like a penguin grow the hell up!!! So he got what he wanted after recording, he just wanted attention and to be arrested (maybe hoping to be the next Rodney King?) this dude's dreaming...immature as hell. In the end, the poor dog was being loyal to a stupid owner. It isn't the cops fault, he already has his gun out and there wasn't enough time to pull out his tazer or baton so what's your first reaction when you're being mauled by a 150lbs Rotweiler? Pop a few caps in him..its sad but that's the way it went down and you can't do anything about it. Suck it up and admit you 'barked' up the wrong tree messing with the cops that day.

Watch these guys, they're always unbiased and put things in a clear perspective:

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by schoy

It wasn't just barking. The dog actually JUMPED out of the car and APPROACHED the officers. It probably would have jumped into the police car when they put the owner there as well. The officers had NO idea what the dog's intent was. It sure looked like the dog was protective of the owner, and clearly presented a danger to themselves. They couldn't just leave it alone.

Also, are you sure the officer was trained to taser a dog? Are you even sure the officer was carrying a taser in the first place?

Finally, let me ask you this: if you were walking outside with your toddler, and someone's Rottweiler approached your kid barking, would you just leave it alone? And if it leaped at you or your kid, and you had a gun, would you not discharge it?

Yeah and all it was doing when it approached the cop was continue to bark unless the cops tried to approach it. Like I said, there was time to think how to handle the situation just as long as the cops didn't try to approach it( that is when it would try to bite them). I know the dog had to dealt with. Just shooting it was the wrong way to go because the dog wasn't attacking without provocation.

No I don't know if he was carrying a taser, but again they had time to think what to do. Release the owner to secure him was an option given he wasn't arrested for violent behavior or wouldn't run away leaving his dog.

And no I would not shoot the dog because it is simply barking at me or my kid. I would shoot it if it leaped at me or my kid. But, if all it did was bark like the dog in this video without provocation, I wouldn't shoot it. You do not approach a dog that is barking at you. I know the cops were in a different situation and had to do something to secure the dog. But, they had time to think on ways to secure it after approaching it the first time wasn't going to work.

Originally Posted by bumere90

^I wouldn't...
You are comparing a completely different situation...Come on be real man. It's like comparing a Ferrari with a 3 series.
Even if you jump at me with a knife I would never use a gun against you. Even if it is Justifying to do so, I wouldn't do that.
Because I am pretty confident I can deal with that shit. I don't need a knife or a gun to protect myself. Killing someone is easy, but getting out of the situation takes some balls.
I am able to kick a dog and kill it. I would probably just kick it in the mouth or stomach area and that's it. Most of you have never been in close contact with an aggressive dog. They bark and shit but once you fight them, the back off. After you whack them, they realize they are not as strong.
Do you really have to be trained to taser dogs? No offense, but that sounds plain stupid. If you need a separate training to use your taser against animals, then you don't belong to forces. For your information, almost all 99.9% officers have a real gun and a taser. Do you know why? To use it in situations like that.
Your argument doesn't make any sense.
It is a dog, not a trained assassin. Therefore, you don't use deadly weapons against it, unless it is on top of you and bites the heck out of you.

Yeah if a person is coming at me with a knife I am shooting him..... That isn't even completely a similar situation.

Originally Posted by Amini77

It isn't the cops fault, he already has his gun out and there wasn't enough time to pull out his tazer or baton so what's your first reaction when you're being mauled by a 150lbs Rotweiler?

I don't see where the dog was mauling the cop.....

[bumere90]

I don't know, I have this thing where I'd rather not see or want anyone get killed. Because there is always another option that can be taken instead of just killing. In that particular situation, you are right the cops had time to think other possible options and try other things first instead of just firing multiple shots.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by bumere90

I don't know, I have this thing where I'd rather not see or want anyone get killed. Because there is always another option that can be taken instead of just killing. In that particular situation, you are right the cops had time to think other possible options and try other things first instead of just firing multiple shots.

It's not that I want to kill a person, but if someone is coming at me with a knife intending to harm or kill me(or a loved one), I will have no problems defending myself and shooting him. My goal is simply to stop him. The shot may or may not kill him. I won't lose sleep over him dying if he does(he did try to harm me after all). If he lives, fine. Go rot in jail.

[Templar]

Originally Posted by bumere90

I don't know, I have this thing where I'd rather not see or want anyone get killed. Because there is always another option that can be taken instead of just killing. In that particular situation, you are right the cops had time to think other possible options and try other things first instead of just firing multiple shots.

Wow...

You'd rather let a criminal live than yourself. You obviously value your own life very much.

[Mr Tonka]

Originally Posted by Vic311

^
Do you live in the same America I do? Sorry but in the real world when you screw with the authorities like this you get the short end of the stick sometimes.

He had no need to be hanging around there playing beats, video taping them, questioning their presence ..etc..And in the end he went too far and his dog paid the price for it.

No, i don't believe i live in the same America you do. Nothing you said the dog owner was doing is illegal. If you're content with authorities being able to arrest you for doing nothing wrong; i don't want to live in your America.

Police exist to make sure people abide by the laws we have. If we don't follow the laws they arrest you and you get your day in court. If the police ask you to stop doing something that is within your rights to do, you don't have to comply with the officers request. Most of the time this will result in an arrest anyway, which is what happened here. When that happened the dog owner complied without resisting.

Once the dog was out of the car the writing was on the wall.

You are correct though, dog owner pushed his luck and the pup paid for it.

Originally Posted by scorcherjf

There's so many things the owner could have done to prevent the situation from happening and saving his dog's life. I can't blame the cop for what he did either. Rottweilers have one of the strongest jaws and can almost break a human hand or arm instantly so you don't just want to wait around and see if he does indeed bite you before taking action.

Yep, dog owner could have made several different decisions that would have resulted in his dog being alive.

[mike the snake]

I feel sorry for the dog. He was the only one there doing nothing wrong.

The owner was an idiot, and must take partial blame.

The cops were pussy assholes, and probably didn't need to cuff-and-stuff the dog's owner. They were even bigger assholes for shooting the dog that was clearly confused and not totally aggressive, he was just protecting his owner.

The cops could have used pepper spray, or tazers before resorting to shooting/killing the dog. And for those who might think "what about after the dog gets tazed or sprayed, then what?" well, I'm sure the dog would have preferred being tazed multiple times or pepper sprayed and tied up, than being shot dead.

This should have gone down very differently IMO. Even after the dog jumped out of the car, they could have let the owner put the dog back into the car. The owner was not a criminal, he was being arrested for being an idiot. The cops were not in danger of losing control of the situation.

This is not an isolated incident. If you look on youtube, there's many vids just like this one, some even worse.

[WillC310]

Originally Posted by quagmire

Given the fact the dog won't be aggressive unless approached, means the cops had time to think what to do.

I would disagree that dogs won't be aggressive unless approached. Two examples:

1. I had a friend back in grade school that was at someone's house for a birthday pool party. He went in the house to use the bathroom when their dog saw him, ran at him, and attacked (yes, attacked) him. The dog ended up biting him repeatedly and hanging off his lower lip..

2. There was a kid on my street who had a beagle and I used to go over to his house all the time. The dog was never mean or vicious to me, never barked, nothing. One day I was outside talking to his mom while she was out walking the dog and he jumped up and bit me close to my crotch. I was not doing anything but standing there talking to her.

There's plenty of news stories where people (even infants) get attacked in provoked attacks. Google it sometime.

[quagmire]

Originally Posted by WillC310

I would disagree that dogs won't be aggressive unless approached. Two examples:

1. I had a friend back in grade school that was at someone's house for a birthday pool party. He went in the house to use the bathroom when their dog saw him, ran at him, and attacked (yes, attacked) him. The dog ended up biting him repeatedly and hanging off his lower lip..

2. There was a kid on my street who had a beagle and I used to go over to his house all the time. The dog was never mean or vicious to me, never barked, nothing. One day I was outside talking to his mom while she was out walking the dog and he jumped up and bit me close to my crotch. I was not doing anything but standing there talking to her.

There's plenty of news stories where people (even infants) get attacked in provoked attacks. Google it sometime.

I didn't say all dogs. I was talking about the dog in this case.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by Mr Tonka

Not so sure i agree this time. Most of these incidents are justifiable by the police. And once the dog lunged at the cop there might not have been much more that could have been done, but the cops knew that the guy had a car there, with a dog in it. It could have been handled better from the start. Of course starting with the dog owner minding his own business.

I'm quite sure the law is much more lenient and loose when it comes to shooting a large breed dog when being "threatened". I'm sure they go over these things often and i'm willing to bet there is a very small percentage cops who hope they come across this so they can shoot something in the line of duty without getting in trouble.

My point is that this cop could have used a taser or pepper spray or done something different, but they went for their gun first.

If the situation the cops were in was so intense, why did they have time to take their attention away from it to arrest a guy for doing what seemed like nothing from the video. The guy gave him self up immediately at the first order to do so. The cops could hear the dog getting more agitated. A little bit of situational awareness could have prevented the shooting. If i were a police officer and i decided i was going to arrest someone, from that moment on i would be playing out possible scenarios in an effort to be prepared as much as possible. Having decided to arrest a guy holding a 110# Rot on a leash would have put all possible dog scenarios in my head as well. The instant he put that dog in the car i would have analyzed the car to see if the dog was secure in there so i could eliminate the dog from the equation. LEOs can correct me if i'm wrong but i'm sure that type of analyzation is part of their training.

Pissed or stressed or what ever there didn't seem to be a good reason for arresting this guy in the first place. And with the behavioral training cops get they were probably suspicious that he was baiting them to arrest him in the first place. Yet they let their emotions get the best of them even though the dog owner was nonviolent.

I'm sure i'm alone here but i think for the most part cops are better trained and more professional that what was portrayed in that video. The dog owner was not violent nor was threatening anyone before or after he was handcuffed. There was a better way to do this.

For the record, i believe both the dog owner and the police are in the wrong. And i'm sad for the dog.

You are right on the money.

From another thread!

Originally Posted by ******
If you watch closely, the officer tried to befriend the dog and acted on impulse out of fear. That dog was anything but a threat and you can see the dog was scared. Not only that but the dog had a leash that he was dragging. I don't see how this is anywhere justifiable under what else was he supposed to do. Great way to create distrust in your community. Now you got one pissed off resident without a dog because of an officer who was too trigger happy.


Agreed.

The police could have easily taken the dog out without killing it. If some guy running from the police can easily take out a trained police dog without killing it, I see no reason why trained police officers could not take down a dog without shooting or killing it. There was two of them against one dog. Pathetic and weak minded police. REGARDLESS of what the owner did or how he left his dog in a car with windows down. He was clearly getting ready to leave.

If these police were on my force, I would suspend them without pay, pending a thorough investigation. WE do not need trigger happy high school educated police doing crap like this, period, end of story.

[stealth.pilot]

We kill other species, why not dogs. I am fully supportive of the cops in this case. Dogs are animals.

[Endless619]

Originally Posted by Amini77

I don't see anything wrong with what the cop did. The guy was asking for trouble..he comes blasting his music windows rolled down, stops the car (music still on), gets out of the car hiding behind his big dog and recording the scene..now there's nothing wrong with recording it but if you read the report he was yelling at the officers "where the black cops at?!" First of all why the hell are you messing with cops around Hawthorne, that's a tough area and cops crack down hard. Secondly, I know a couple black cops..the problem isn't that they don't hire black cops so what's the other problem? Think about it for a cool minute. Dude you're 52 freaking years old sagging your pants walking around like a penguin grow the hell up!!! So he got what he wanted after recording, he just wanted attention and to be arrested (maybe hoping to be the next Rodney King?) this dude's dreaming...immature as hell. In the end, the poor dog was being loyal to a stupid owner. It isn't the cops fault, he already has his gun out and there wasn't enough time to pull out his tazer or baton so what's your first reaction when you're being mauled by a 150lbs Rotweiler? Pop a few caps in him..its sad but that's the way it went down and you can't do anything about it. Suck it up and admit you 'barked' up the wrong tree messing with the cops that day.

Watch these guys, they're always unbiased and put things in a clear perspective:

You are the minority. How old are you? You sound very young.