[black335i]

I had a sunseeker and was happy with it, sold it because I didnt use it much and was being charged for a space at the port.
Nice boat and was hi tech.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

I had a "small" 41' Sea Ray for a few years. Beautiful boats, easy to navigate in and out of Dana Point Harbor.

I ended up selling it because I couldn't justify the maintenance and upkeep fees when I was only out on the open sea 5-8 times a year. It made more sense for me to just rent a boat every blue moon when I got the urge.

Seriously consider the upkeep cost, the general rule of thumb for a boat in your size range (40 to 60 feet) is 2%-5% of the purchase price of the boat PER YEAR. On my Sea Ray, that was about right.

So for a $300,000 boat, expect around $6,000 to $15,000 per year in annual maintenance alone (minus mooring fees, daily use cost, etc). Obviously a lot cheaper if you do the work yourself, but that may not be an option yet for you if you're new to boating.

So where does the money go?

Big ticket items:
- Engine overhaul every 2000 to 3000 hours of running.
- bilge pump maintenance
- Anything that goes through the hull and into water. Make sure it is sealed properly and nothing is rusted, if it isn't, expect to pay big bucks to fix it.
- Replace batteries
- Gas! Unless you intend to dock your boat until 4th of July or memorial day. These things drink gas like a Ferrari, maybe faster.

Medium cost items:
- hoses (check for cracks, replacement)
- thru-hull fittings (check for leaks, closes easily)
- Yearly electrical system maintenance
- water impellers
- Oil change
- hull cleaning

Etc items: Upholstery, canvas replacement, engine parts, other electronics, chargers, belts, out drive parts, engine parts, cetol, lubes, anti-fouling paint, minor gelcoat repairs, replacing docklines, sail and diesel/saildrive maintenance, watermaker membranes, re-galvanizing the anchor chain, replacing anodes, light bulbs etc.

Also remember, these cost continue to go up as the boat ages

Example of cost for simple usage minus maintenance:

$550/year insurance including towing
$2000 to $3000/year moorage
$100/day average expenses while on the water including gas
So if you are out on the sea for 70 days, or 20% of the year = $7000 (for a bigger boat, this goes up a lot).

If you have to hire a captain and mate, add another $100+ per hour for daily operation.

You're over $10,000 a year and that's without all of the previously mentioned maintenance issues.

It also depends on how you want to maintain your boat. If you are a casual boater who just wants to hang around in the harbor drinking beers with buddies, you probably will pay a lot less. But then you have to ask yourself why you want to buy a $300,000 boat.

If you are going to do any serious boating, where you will be traveling to different ports along the coast, or hitting open ocean, then I'd say the cost could even be a smidge higher. So it all depends on how you use the boat, and how well you want it to perform for your own purposes.

Well said.

[Vic311]

You might as well throw your money into the ocean. Boats have absolutely zero resale value.

[daviddn]

LOL, people on here are filthy rich...My question is what are you doing with a m3?

[MediaArtist]

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Just out of curiosity, what kind of income and (liquid?) net worth is needed to comfortably afford a $300k boat? Is a boat in this range considered a reasonable investment or a commodity?

I know nothing of boats and I've always been curious. My gut feeling tells me that buying a boat is more similar to buying an exotic car, for example, than it is to buy a second home/condo (and rent it out) for investment purposes.

Do boats like this depreciate to the extent that cars do, or do they hold their value pretty well (or do they generally appreciate in value?)

How risky is it to purchase a boat like this as an investment (your main intention is to rent it out as often as possible), and what would one typically charge to rent it out ($X for renting the boat for Y days/hours)

Let's just say a lot.

If you're not buying it cash, you probably need a high six digit salary to even qualify for the loan (assuming you have a house mortgage, and normal living expenses).

No, boats never appreciate. They eat your money faster than two ex-wives.

Exotic cars are much cheaper to maintain than boats. For a Ferrari, it's about $1 per mile for yearly maintenance. For a boat, it's easily triple that annually, maybe more.

Only buy a boat, seriously, if you love the ocean and open water, and you have sea water in your veins... or... you have so much money you no longer know what to buy besides an expensive boat.

When I sold my boat, I ate about $60,000 and my boat was well maintained and less than 5 years old. That's a brand new M3 coupe.

[Mr Tonka]

Some people buy a shit ton of yacht to offset profit in their corporation. Use it for entertaining their clients and get the cost of maintenance, fuel, etc... as a business expense. And even better, the depreciation.

Seriously, not many days are better than the day that your CPA tells you that you need to spend $700k on a yacht to lower your tax burden.

[NemesisX]

Originally Posted by MediaArtist

Let's just say a lot.

If you're not buying it cash, you probably need a high six digit salary to even qualify for the loan (assuming you have a house mortgage, and normal living expenses).

No, boats never appreciate. They eat your money faster than two ex-wives.

Exotic cars are much cheaper to maintain than boats. For a Ferrari, it's about $1 per mile for yearly maintenance. For a boat, it's easily triple that annually, maybe more.

Only buy a boat, seriously, if you love the ocean and open water, and you have sea water in your veins... or... you have so much money you no longer know what to buy besides an expensive boat.

When I sold my boat, I ate about $60,000 and my boat was well maintained and less than 5 years old. That's a brand new M3 coupe.

Oh wow. Yeah, that's kind of what I had in mind after reading about the depreciation and maintenance costs for boats like this.

For me personally after reading all of this I wouldn't buy a boat that's more than maybe 5-10% of my liquid net worth. Sounds like a huge money sink.

Anyways, thanks for the information!

[dvpouldar26]

Originally Posted by kscarrol

It is worse then buying your M3 as an investment. It is NOT an investment, it is a rapidly depreciating asset with high ongoing operating expenses. Can't answer your question on income/net worth needs...

+1. Can't find a worse investment. Buy a yacht only if you really are going to use it and enjoy its use. Most people don't take into account the costs of maintenance, cleaning the salt off it, fuel, moorage (where you dock your boat), etc.

My close friend had an 83' yacht for 1 year. While it was great fun, the thousands to fuel up, maintain and store it was not worth the use every month or two. He bought the yacht new and after only a year, he sold it and it had depreciated significantly (1.5 million new and sold for 980,000) ... Only buy one if you're really going to use it and spend time on it and can afford the maintenance, storage, etc costs.... a decently used 53' could be found for much cheaper but, again, take into account running costs.

[Boo-E]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Lol. If I find a super deal id buy it. For sure. And if I could make a profit selling it right away. Its sold. After a bunch of trips out that is. That quotes almost as good as the if it flies or floats quote haha

Beemerdude, I'm curious what you do for a living. BTW if I win the powerball tomorrow I'll buy both of us a boat

[beemerdude5150]

Originally Posted by dvpouldar26

+1. Can't find a worse investment. Buy a yacht only if you really are going to use it and enjoy its use. Most people don't take into account the costs of maintenance, cleaning the salt off it, fuel, moorage (where you dock your boat), etc.

My close friend had an 83' yacht for 1 year. While it was great fun, the thousands to fuel up, maintain and store it was not worth the use every month or two. He bought the yacht new and after only a year, he sold it and it had depreciated significantly (1.5 million new and sold for 980,000) ... Only buy one if you're really going to use it and spend time on it and can afford the maintenance, storage, etc costs.... a decently used 53' could be found for much cheaper but, again, take into account running costs.

<3 thank you for looking out. Again. You guys give me faith in the human race. Well most of you. Lol

I will definitely consider all the words of advice and wisdom you guys have kicked my way. I might put a feeler ad on CL one of these days to see how many people inquire to rent from CL alone a boat like the one Im stalking. Ill post pics soon as I can.

[beemerdude5150]

Originally Posted by Boo-E

Beemerdude, I'm curious what you do for a living. BTW if I win the powerball tomorrow I'll buy both of us a boat

Haha. Im a film maker. I produce. And when im not doing that I let my money make money. Wont go into detail. What about you?

[Comet]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Jk. Im not even married yet.

My real question is.....are there any members on here that own any yachts? Im looking to buy one in the near future. Nothing crazy maybe like a 52' footer. 200-300k budget. And all goofy comments are welcome and appreciated. I love the humor. Humor me. But any advice on what to look for is greatly appreciated too.

Family owns 3 boats. Sail, speedboat (formula), and yacht (steel, not fiberglass).

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Having some sails might help me save gas. But I mainly was just going to party on it. Most likely will never go on long expeditions. I was also going to rent it out to cut the costs. Small parties. Honeymoons. Dates. Fishing trips...

Look, if you're looking into cutting costs, and saving on money, yacht owning is not for you. It's bitchy to say, but it's true.
I personally would never rent out any of my boats primarily because you don't know what kind of asshatted shenanigans the people you are renting it to will pull or stuff they will end up breaking which costs a shit ton more.

Originally Posted by Boo-E

Lol...shouldn't be too hard to convince a stripper to party on a boat.

Actually harder than you think, lots think you will murder them out at sea, and the ones who will hang out, won't do it for free, and when they know you have a boat, wow do prices go up.

Originally Posted by bosster hymen

you don't need a boat, just a friend with a boat

Tell that to all my friends, I think they'd disagree with you on that.

Originally Posted by kscarrol

Old saying... "Two happiest days in a man's life, the day he buys the boat and the day he sells the boat."

Old saying by people who don't have salt water in their veins

Originally Posted by M3LISSA

So true Ken! Im STILL trying to sell the Formula.. You think with all the boats people lost in Sandy they would want one, lol.

I also have a Formula, love mine

Originally Posted by NemesisX

Just out of curiosity, what kind of income and (liquid?) net worth is needed to comfortably afford a $300k boat? Is a boat in this range considered a reasonable investment or a commodity?

I know nothing of boats and I've always been curious. My gut feeling tells me that buying a boat is more similar to buying an exotic car, for example, than it is to buy a second home/condo (and rent it out) for investment purposes.

Do boats like this depreciate to the extent that cars do, or do they hold their value pretty well (or do they generally appreciate in value?)

How risky is it to purchase a boat like this as an investment (your main intention is to rent it out as often as possible), and what would one typically charge to rent it out ($X for renting the boat for Y days/hours)

Boats are not an investment.


They are amazingly fun but cost hell loads. If you don't plan to use them, just like cars, they will go bad.
To give you an idea on fuel prices, I took this:

To the left is HALF my tank of fuel for my speed boat (roughly 1hour of fun?)
The guy to the right? I have no fucking clue.
Those prices are in Euro.
My dad has a sign hung up that says "My boat runs on gas and oil but it burns cash".

Try it out. For some, boating is worth every penny, and I would never blink twice for my boats. Others try it and figure it isn't for them.
It is a hobby meant for the people with the means to enjoy it. You can't half ass it just because you can afford the boat. It is all about enjoying the trip, enjoying the sites. If you just want a patio to drink on in the water to enjoy, then boats are not for you. Go hang out at a beach resort. It'll be the same.

To me, it's all about waking up to this:

(taken from the deck, from the marina at dawn)

Sailing out to this for a morning swim:


And then speedboating my ass to that:


And lounging on my deck:


it also depends if you have the water to enjoy it. It sounds stupid, but the same way a road can be fun, and others boring, the same can be said about the sea. Some places are just "fun" to navigate, others make you wish you were still berthed.
One of my boat buddies said it best: "Boats are for people who want to relax, take it slow, and forget everything." You can't go on your boat and say "shit, this is going to cost me that much, and I need to budget a weekend for it".
it is a feel, a state of mind. You just say "my week was hell, I need to go sailing to clear my head."
The cost of owning one shouldn't come up if you are ready to properly own one IMO.


Basically it needs to dawn on you like that!

I find people who enjoy boating the most are the ones who don't worry about cost.
Everything in a boat breaks, and I mean EVERYTHING.
The second you worry about the cost of owning one, that's when it isn't for you.

[beemerdude5150]

Comet:

You are thee man. Just the type of encouragement I need. Im just going to make more money so I wont dread the purchase. And you are an inspiration to boat dreamers like myself. And youre absolutely right. I just need to make more money. And save more money. Thank you for posting a worthy word of encouragement. I needed that. Alot of people on here are just trying to give me their opinions and I appreciate both aspects of advices given. im still very young but i plan to be a millionaire. Its coming. And when i get there i want to feel how you feel on your boat. Btw the pictures are amazing and just soothing.

When or if i get my boat I was planning to rent out with a crew. Captain and whoever. Im excited with the thoughts. But I will tread slowly and carefully towards this dream. Im aiming high. But either way im happy as a freed man with nothing or everything. Thank you again.

[grimlock]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

i plan to be a millionaire.

had us trolled

[beemerdude5150]

Originally Posted by grimlock

had us trolled

Haha. I dont come from money. Im not one of those brats. Ive worked hard to get where I am. So please.

[Boo-E]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Haha. Im a film maker. I produce. And when im not doing that I let my money make money. Wont go into detail. What about you?

Nice. I have a few friends in your biz down in LA. I own an electrical business.

[pgviper]

Both my uncles have boats, they use them every weekend and love them!!!

Not every investment needs to give you a monetary gain. Understand the risks and if you decide to go through with the boat/yacht then think of it as an investment in your personal and family enjoyment (you mentioned nephews and nieces). This value differs by the individual so depending on how much you think that's worth, make your decision on what to get.

I may be young but since I recently started my career, I have the money to enjoy things but not the time so sometimes I bite the bullet and use the mindset I stated above as a way of convincing myself that not everything is about making money. You still have to live your life.

Best of luck on your decision and keep us updated!!!

[Boo-E]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Haha. I dont come from money. Im not one of those brats. Ive worked hard to get where I am. So please.

+1. Came from nothing and done ok in life(only 33 lol) and enjoy when I am able to splurge a little.

[M3LISSA]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Im serious. I have the means and the ends to own my own boat. Most of my friends are well off too. And I have good credit. Ive never burned any bridges. I am the type that goes way out of the way for everyone (except snakes). I treat people the way I want to be treated. I deserve it all imo.

But! I will consider all this great advice about upkeep costs. Do any of you owners rent out your boat for events and what not to help keep with upkeep costs? Thanks everyone.

hey ok, thats great that your serious, based on the topic here I didnt know. I do not rent mine out. I have a 46 Fairline Phantom, we use it all summer long. Think of it as a investment in a summer home, except it floats, and is way more fun. yes fuel is expensive, actually paid $3.69 a gallon in the Highlands this weekend which is good (diesel). We go everywhere with it. I guess it depends where some people are at in life and what you want to actually use the boat for..

[M3LISSA]

Originally Posted by beemerdude5150

Melissa:

Please post a pic if you could we would love to see your boat.

hey, sorry I just read the whole thread, ill try to post a pic, i never seem to have any luck putting pictures on this stupid forum.... i want to bang my head on the wall every time...

Originally Posted by smohr33

Have you ever driven a boat of that size? A 50' boat isn't the type of thing you just hop in and pull away from the dock. Try docking it in a 20mph wind. Plan on spending lots of time cleaning and maintaining, or paying someone else a ton of money to do it.

How about fuel? A 50' boat will drink at least 50GPH. Diesel is over $5 on the water here right now, so are you ready to pay over $250/hr for just fuel? Probably well over $1k per weekend in fuel if you are putting any time on it. Docking? I think the least expensive private marina around here is $150/ft for the summer, and at least $30/ft for winter storage, probably more. $9000/yr just to keep it somewhere... so now you're in $10k over the purchase price before you even pull away from the dock the first time, and that's if you already have lines, bumpers, life jackets, and all that good stuff. And that's before something breaks or goes wrong, which WILL happen.

The boating market is severely deflated, and has been since 08. There is way too much supply and very little demand, new boats are routinley sold at a loss by dealers and used boats are worth literally pennies on the dollar compared to what they were bought for in the late 2000's. No matter how good of a deal you get, expect very little return when you go to sell, depreciation that makes a Ferrari look like a great investment.

People do "rent" boats, its called chartering. Maybe you should be looking into that to get a grip on it and decide if its worth the investment before you dive in.

Ill agree boating is an expensive hobby, but so worth it.. Like someone said you have to have it in your blood, and veins.. But I did pay 3.89 a gallon in NJ, then they took off 0.20$ a gallon for cash, so we filled up from about less than half costing roughly $920. That will last my boat, with Volvo Pentas 500 diesels about 3 weekends maybe more depending on where we go. The generator also runs off of one engine, which sucks it out faster.
To the other Formula owner... Heyyy!!! Awesome boats right!???

[Comet]

Originally Posted by M3LISSA

To the other Formula owner... Heyyy!!! Awesome boats right!???

why rolling your eyes?
we've had ours since 1992 and the thing is still in great condition (able to break 60knots)
IMO they are some of the most well built speed boats for their price range.

[M3LISSA]

Originally Posted by Comet

why rolling your eyes?
we've had ours since 1992 and the thing is still in great condition (able to break 60knots)
IMO they are some of the most well built speed boats for their price range.

wow so observant. wrong smiley. Anyway, I mine is a '97, and I agree one of the best made boats as well. I bought it in 2002, I still have it, but now im selling it.