[Murf the Surf]

Originally Posted by gblansten

Yes. When you lease from Tesla (and I am doing so) you do not have the option to buy the car at the end of the lease. You have to give the car back. This is standard for Tesla.

Given the depreciation alone I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy any EV at the end of a 3 year lease.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by M5Rick

Never took on any vehicle on a lease, does that mean you must own it for 3 or so years then hand it back. I'm a newbie to this lease thing.

I've leased for years but am no expert on the broad industry. I believe that most of the car companies allow you to buy the car at the end of the lease. I think Tesla is a definite outlier. Since my lease cost is partly a business expense I have always wanted to turn the car in and lease another. So I don't particularly care about the Tesla caveat on this.

[Car-Addicted]

Very interesting.
Toyota’s Leaked 1:6:90 Rule Reveals Why It’s Not Wasting Lithium on EVs
02/24/24
Toyota recently revealed it 1:6:90 rule, and this guideline for lithium allocation makes sense.
But to “mine” it we dig holes in salt flats, fill them with water, let the water evaporate, pile up the slightly more concentrated lithium slush, and often do it all over again. It is slow, bad for the local environment, and not an easy task for often underpaid workers.
The CEO of Mercedes warns EVs may double in price. The CEO of Stellantis worries there isn’t enough lithium on Earth to swap our massive automotive fleet for EVs–at any price point.
Enter Toyota: A leaked document reveals the automaker told its dealership network that the lithium and other rare materials required to build an EV could also be enough for six plug-in hybrids. Or, it could make 90 hybrids. What’s more, swapping 90 internal combustion cars for hybrids is much better for the environment than building one full EV. Much, much better. Toyota: “The overall carbon reduction of those 90 hybrids over their lifetimes is 37 times as much as as single battery EV.”
These numbers line up with my previous reporting. The Tesla Model S Long Range uses enough lithium to make more than 11 PHEVs. The Rivian R1T uses up enough lithium for 20 PHEVs. And the Hummer EV hogs enough lithium for 24 PHEVs. To get these numbers, I’m using the battery in the last generation Prius Prime PHEV. It got 25-miles of all electric range out of 1.5 kg of lithium. That’s enough range that the average American driver would only fire up the gasoline engine on long road trips.
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/toyota-lithium-evs/

Akio Toyoda delivers a truth bomb the green grifters will not like.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Murf the Surf

Given the depreciation alone I can't imagine why anyone would want to buy any EV at the end of a 3 year lease.

A lease is basically paying for the vehicle depreciation on a monthly basis. At the end of the lease, generally you are offered the vehicle at current market value. Sounds simple until you have a vehicle that has a greater depreciation than the lease was designed to handle. The finance provider holds the paper so they are the ones holding the bag in most cases. Even free government cheese will not fix this in the future.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

They've known this all along and it made zero difference to the Green Insanity.

I think you may be giving these folks too much credit. I've gone toe to toe with quite a few of these global warming, EV's will save the planet folks over the years and I seldom see any sign that they have really thought things through. I think they are way more interested in the opinion and respect of their peers than facts and common sense.
Now Akio Toyoda IS thinking things through.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

When Tesla had the EV market to themselves it made sense because their vehicles held value very well. Now it is biting them in the ass because they most certainly are not holding value well and Tesla must reflect that in the residuals for new leases, which make them less attractive to lease.

I'm pretty stoked on my next S Plaid lease being much cheaper.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by gblansten

I'm pretty stoked on my next S Plaid lease being much cheaper.

Your cup is always half full isn't it?

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Your cup is always half full isn't it?

If I am driving a car with 1000+ hp then the cup is large and full baby.

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

Your cup is always half full isn't it?

Some people don't make their car buying choices based on politics. I personally buy cars I like and can afford, period. I love my model 3 and none of the politics in here change the reasons I love it so... the answer to the original thread title is still yes!

Speaking of depreciation... if my Cayenne hadn't depreciated like rock I'd probably sell it and get a Model X or S.

[Car-Addicted]

Originally Posted by dreamingat30fps

Some people don't make their car buying choices based on politics.

If you took the government rebate to purchase your car you should thank the ICE taxpayers that helped you out.
If you drive on the roads you should thank ICE fuel buyers that helped you out.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

If you took the government rebate to purchase your car you should thank the ICE taxpayers that helped you out.
If you drive on the roads you should thank ICE fuel buyers that helped you out.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx

No rebates when I bought it, but 100% would take it if offered. Got 3 ICE vehicles so I'll be sure to thank myself.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

If you took the government rebate to purchase your car you should thank the ICE taxpayers that helped you out.
If you drive on the roads you should thank ICE fuel buyers that helped you out.

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.
Groucho Marx

I will take advantage of every single penny I can legally get back after looking at my tax return every year. Zero tears. Zero.

[G30M]

i now want a Hyundai Ioniq 5 N

best toy ever made

(also got a M5 Comp on the wish list)

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

So, for the thousands and thousands of EV's being dumped in fields by the rapidly bankrupting Chinese EV firms, just curious who handles the responsible recycling of these cars? Hahahahahahahaha, good one! I suppose they'll just join all the other hazmat dumped randomly across China. Ain't the Green Insanity the most contumelious elitest idea every created.

Your Saturday fun so far?

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

So, for the thousands and thousands of EV's being dumped in fields by the rapidly bankrupting Chinese EV firms, just curious who handles the responsible recycling of these cars? Hahahahahahahaha, good one! I suppose they'll just join all the other hazmat dumped randomly across China. Ain't the Green Insanity the most contumelious elitest idea every created.

Their fields are big enough in the most populated country on earth to eventually swallow up the unwanted EV's with no greenie laws there.

[gblansten]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Sometimes the Green Insanity makes me bucky.

Hope you find ways to decompress and enjoy the greatest time humanity has had in history.

[Efthreeoh]

Originally Posted by Car-Addicted

A lease is basically paying for the vehicle depreciation on a monthly basis. At the end of the lease, generally you are offered the vehicle at current market value. Sounds simple until you have a vehicle that has a greater depreciation than the lease was designed to handle. The finance provider holds the paper so they are the ones holding the bag in most cases. Even free government cheese will not fix this in the future.

Not on a close end lease. The residual is set up front at the start if the lease. Most personal automobile leases are closed end leases.

[M5Rick]

BYD has built their own big enough transport ship to export Chinese cars over to a Dutch port, Rotterdam probably to distribute their ev's across Europe including Britain, there's already one of their ev's in my next street.
Subscription clip so cut off but main story is there.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/a...omy-elite.html

[Efthreeoh]

So, amusing. Yesterday my brother and his wife came down from Northern Virgina to my neck of the woods (really it is in the woods). They are looking for some mountain property to build a house on as a weekend place and came down to check some local properties that recently came on the market.

The driving distance is about 85 miles from their house to mine; 1 hour 45 minutes with no traffic. My sister-in-law has a very nice Mustang Mach E. I think it is a Premium, but I don't know which battery she has nor the drivetrain config (AWD vs. RWD). She charges at home with a hardwired L2. I was hoping they were going to bring the Mach E so I could test drive it. They have a 2nd car, which is some 2018 Infinity SUV (a QX50 I think) with the obnoxious V6, which my brother fricking HATES, and that is the vehicle they brought. They had a short time window because they had a dinner engagement planned for later in the evening in N. Virgina, so no time for a few hours charge plugged into a 120V outlet. I have a 240V-50-amp circuit for my stick welder in my shop she could have used to charge, but I'm not sure if Ford provides a NEMA 10-50P adapter (old school) for the MME's mobile charger. She is a degreed architect-engineer, so she knows her shit about electricity and electrical circuits.

We probably drove around my hood maybe 35 miles total, so their total trip miles would have been around 205 miles. However, there were a few steep inclines on gravel roads, which I'm sure would have snatched a few more electrons than normal. Yesterday it was cold and rainy too, just around 40 deg. F. There are no DCFC stations anywhere near where I live. There is one Tesla destination charger (i.e. L2) at a local winery nearby, a neighbor says the charging station does have an L2 CSS charger too, but I've not confirmed it.

The MME with the standard range battery and RWD is rated at 250 - 264 miles depending on chemistry; I'm pretty sure my sister-in-law's MME has the older chemistry battery so it should be at least a 264 mile version.

But the point is I'd say their trip yesterday was a typical weekend use case for a couple. A 200-mile trip out to the country to visit family. They went with ICE because of the time window; no time to charge. And on the way out my brother did mention they had to refuel the Infinity on the way back.

[carseatsm5]

“EV Startups Struggled to Build Cars. Now They Struggle to Sell Them.”

https://www.wsj.com/business/autos/e...?siteid=yhoof2

[M5Rick]

Originally Posted by Weather Man

Hard to believe the EU would allow the Chinese to dump EV's and destroy the domestic auto industries, but the Green Insanity indoctrination is strong there.

EU has a limited time span before their ivory towers in Brussels are turned into flats to make some proper use for them and the more ons that are in there now are bumped back to earth and get proper jobs.

[eugenebmw]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

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It's well known I have more than one car, but I've never claimed I bought one of them because it saved me money. In truth it's the complete opposite.

Same deal over here. I owned multiple cars and they are my toys to have fun. I don't think there is a hobby in the world doesn't cost money