[Red Bread]

I think 10% is the new norm for power loss for autos and DSG. But that's still 370/470, which certainly better explains the impressive performance.

[GoneIn4Secs]

Originally Posted by hellrotm

So I guess we have the explanation for how C&D achieved 3.8sec 0-60 with the new 335 hp Supra.

They dynoed it at 339 whp and 427 wtq. Using a generic drivetrain loss of 15% nets 390 hp and 491 tq at the crank.

They also had m2c dynos at the beginning that were like 450whp and 600 wtorque

[supra93]

Here is the link the the C&D article.

Side note, does that mean the Z4 is pushing around 380hp to the wheel?

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...no-horsepower/

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by GoneIn4Secs

They also had m2c dynos at the beginning that were like 450whp and 600 wtorque

Car&Driver? Dynojet?

EAS M2comp Dynojet numbers were 397 whp and 437 whp.

(Edit: I am sure you are referring to Gpower dyno 439hp/607nm? Different type of dyno. By the way 600NM is 442 ft-lb.)

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I think 10% is the new norm for power loss for autos and DSG. But that's still 370/470, which certainly better explains the impressive performance.

It surely isn't lacking in torque. It is putting down M4(non-zcp) and M2comp Dynojet torque numbers.

[supra93]

[N54Yankee]

That video has it at 4.3 0-60 and that one dyno posted earlier has it producing much more then advertised power, more so then I recall others doing and the graph gets real hinky like an EKG above 3k rpm, very strange for a stock engine.
Maybe a ringer?

[OkieSnuffBox]

The torque is likely high because they didn't dyno it in a 1:1 gear.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

The torque is likely high because they didn't dyno it in a 1:1 gear.

They mentioned that it was corrected for that and they did test in 1:1 and it had similar numbers but wouldn't redline because of the speed governor, so they used the corrected other ratio.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Still waiting for all the people always complaining that cars aren't "tossable" or that they're too heavy to chime in with some kudos here. This thing might lack a MT but it definitely appears to be very nimble.

Still smh from all the people acting like any addition of BMW into a Toyota is anything but a good thing. Perhaps the Camry is more their cup of tea?

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

Still waiting for all the people always complaining that cars aren't "tossable" or that they're too heavy to chime in with some kudos here. This thing might lack a MT but it definitely appears to be very nimble.

Still smh from all the people acting like any addition of BMW into a Toyota is anything but a good thing. Perhaps the Camry is more their cup of tea?

Meh, its still a pig. It's just a powerful pig. If it had advertised hp and just weighed 400 pounds less it would be a lot more impressive. It's close in size to a Cayman and weighs about 12% more.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Meh, its still a pig. It's just a powerful pig. If it had advertised hp and just weighed 400 pounds less it would be a lot more impressive. It's close in size to a Cayman and weighs about 12% more.

How about 200 lbs less and same power? Would anyone buy that?

330hp, 3,200 lbs soaking wet, same MSRP. Same stiff chassis built in the same factory*.

Believe you me. People don't care about the weight. As long as it wears a Supra badge you'll get enough people to want to buy it for the name alone.

*11 years ago

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Meh, its still a pig. It's just a powerful pig. If it had advertised hp and just weighed 400 pounds less it would be a lot more impressive. It's close in size to a Cayman and weighs about 12% more.

A bare bones Cayman S PDK is 3054lbs and equipped like a Supra easily over 3100lbs so its not like the Cayman is a featherweight.

Add in the Supra has a far far far better engine and is $20k cheaper than a stripper S model I'd say the Supra is doing pretty well for itself and the weight is easily forgivable.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

A bare bones Cayman S PDK is 3054lbs and equipped like a Supra easily over 3100lbs so its not like the Cayman is a featherweight.

Add in the Supra has a far far far better engine and is $20k cheaper than a stripper S model I'd say the Supra is doing pretty well for itself and the weight is easily forgivable.

That's still 10%. I know most folks don't care. If they did the piggy GTR would have never sold. But it's fast, so it sold. For some folks that's all that matters.

[Socal_R8]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

A bare bones Cayman S PDK is 3054lbs and equipped like a Supra easily over 3100lbs so its not like the Cayman is a featherweight.

Add in the Supra has a far far far better engine and is $20k cheaper than a stripper S model I'd say the Supra is doing pretty well for itself and the weight is easily forgivable.

The 981 or the 718?

Both engines are seemingly bulletproof these days....and the both Cayman versions have a rep as being one of the best pure sports cars on the road.

I'd much rather have a base Cayman 981 or 718 over the hideous looking Supra

Looks are subjective, so some may like it, but most think it's fugly af

Looks nothing like what they used for the prototype....it's like one of those
Before and after pics of a meth user


But this is just my opinion


Before meth


After meth addiction

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by SoCal_NSX

The 981 or the 718?

Both engines are seemingly bulletproof these days....and the both Cayman versions have a rep as being one of the best pure sports cars on the road.

I'd much rather have a base Cayman 981 or 718 over the hideous looking Supra

Looks are subjective, so some may like it, but most think it's fugly af

But this is just my opinion

I was quoting brand new Cayman weights and prices.

Any regardless of "bulletproof" the Cayman engine is a turbo 4 banger vs an inline 6 for the Supra.
The inline 6 is a smoother better performing and sounding engine in every way possible with much more room for growth.

As for looks yeah the Cayman is a good looking car but is also generic in regards to the same basic porsche look they've had for decades.

The Supra is an acquired taste but its far from generic or common.

Personally I'd choose the better engine for $25k+ less all day long.
Heck I could buy a brand new Supra and then go buy a used 981, for the same price as a new Cayman S, and have my cake and eat it too!!!

[supra93]

I will admit that it isn't as sexy as the concept, and some areas could use improvement. (Mirrors, wheels, needs a wing & see through hood from the FT1 would be nice). However, at the same time it is a $50k car. Either way, imo, its no where near the hideous level of the R35 GTR.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by supra93

I will admit that it isn't as sexy as the concept, and some areas could use improvement. (Mirrors, wheels, needs a wing & see through hood from the FT1 would be nice). However, at the same time it is a $50k car. Either way, imo, its no where near the hideous level of the R35 GTR.

And it's a good bit lighter than that ugly thing too. Never understood the appeal of the R35. Love the R33 and R34, next year will be the first one to allow R33 imports.

[supra93]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

And it's a good bit lighter than that ugly thing too. Never understood the appeal of the R35. Love the R33 and R34, next year will be the first one to allow R33 imports.

GTR fanboys will say function over form.

The R35 owners that I have talked with admit its no beauty queen, but they brought it for the performance.

[psuibmw]

In the Bimmers enthusiasts forum, the most talked about vehicle is the Toyota Supra

[yco]

Originally Posted by psuibmw

In the Bimmers enthusiasts forum, the most talked about vehicle is the Toyota Supra

better than new X1 and its more than half BMW in the end..

[wdb]

C&D just compared the new base Z4 to a base Boxster and chose the Boxster. They noted the weight difference in particular. They also said the Z4 was a damned fine car and were it not for the excellence of the Boxster it would be a standout.

I find it odd that BMW chose to let Toyota go first with the big power.