[supra93]

[The HACK]

Still waiting for an outlet to do a back to back between the Zupra and the MZ4 Coupe...

[supra93]

https://www.consumerreports.org/spor...-drive-review/

This reborn sports car is surprising, delightful, and entertaining

The Toyota Supra returns to the market after a two-decade absence with sharper reflexes, extroverted styling, advanced safety systems, and modern infotainment technology. This fifth-generation coupe is now more focused on being a great sports car. It's strictly a two-seater now, too.

The origin story for this latest Supra started as a partnership between Toyota and BMW to develop a shared sports car platform. BMW uses it for the recent Z4 roadster.

Each automaker uses the same platform and a version of a BMW powertrain: Toyota uses a 3.0-liter inline six-cylinder turbocharged engine here, paired with an eight-speed automatic transmission. (For its part, BMW offers the Z4 with a four-cylinder turbocharged engine, as well as the six.) Both cars are built in the same factory in Austria.

Once the core hardware was established, each automaker further developed and tuned their cars independently. The result is a pair of cars with very different personalities.

We were finishing our BMW Z4 road test when we had the opportunity to rent a pre-production Supra from Toyota. Based on our initial experience, the Supra is a better balanced car than the Bimmer. More than that, it is among the most thrilling cars we have experienced on the CR test track.

Below are our first impressions; below that is a taste of what we thought about the last Supra, way back in 1994.

What we drove: 2020 Toyota Supra 3.0 Premium
Powertrain: 335-hp, 3.0-liter inline six-cylinder turbocharged engine, eight-speed automatic transmission, rear-wheel drive
MSRP: $53,990
Options: $1,195 (Driver-assist package)
Destination fee: $930
Total cost: $56,115

What We Like . . . So Far
Right from the first step on the throttle, the engine is impressive. On paper, the 335 hp it creates may seem mild, but the secret here is that the maximum torque output occurs quickly, at a low 1,600 rpm, giving acceleration a strong urgency. And it remains at full force—365 lb.-ft. of torque—through to 4,500 rpm.

That turbo engine is coupled to a smart eight-speed transmission, creating linear power that delivers thrust on demand. The power, and high-caliber fun, is readily available at any speed.

The transmission delivers smooth, quick shifts, and the paddles behind the steering wheel enable drivers to fully override the automated gear selection when desired, without removing their hands from the wheel.

Sure, we’d welcome experiencing a Supra with a manual transmission, but we understand why it won’t be offered with one: The market is moving away from stick shifts. Don’t let that deter you from considering the Supra.

We love the mechanical symphony that the Supra produces, with engaging engine and exhaust sounds when it revs. Engage its Sport mode and the revs rise, the sound gets amplified, the steering feels even heavier, and the transmission tends to downshift earlier. At that point, the exhaust gives a satisfying, race-car-like bark during downshifts.

Out on the CR test track, the Supra had impressively tenacious grip. The short wheelbase, wide tires, rock-solid platform, 50:50 weight distribution, and fine-tuned suspension combine for truly sublime handling. The Supra has a hint more body roll than the Z4 does, and its steering isn’t as quick. However, the Supra is easy to race around the track with confidence, and its limits are quite impressive.

Our drivers unanimously agreed that the Supra is a more balanced and more engaging car than its topless mechanical cousin. In the right hands and the right place, the Supra is playful without intimidating drivers.

The interior reveals the BMW partnership, looking every bit like it came straight from one of the German automaker’s cars, iDrive infotainment system and all. And that's great. The cabin has a sophisticated, upscale feel—but it's not quite as nice as the Z4’s. It seems odd initially to see the BMW styling, graphics, and infotainment system, but anyone who has driven a Toyota recently will see this as a big plus. Toyota's infotainment systems tend to look dated, and the interiors often have disappointing elements, like hard plastics and small buttons.

The sculpted seats are comfortable, and they hold you in place well—key for a sports car. The torso bolsters adjust, enabling them to expand for larger drivers and snug up for track excursions. There is a padded, concave niche for the driver’s right knee that makes the narrow cockpit much more livable than it otherwise would have been. This is proof that small, clever ideas can make a big difference.

Visibility is not ideal, but it is better than drivers might expect, particularly to the rear. That small window in the hatchback, flanked by thick pillars, provides a decent view out the back.

What We Don’t Like
There is precious little to gripe about, especially once you accept that sports cars have inherent compromises.

For instance, getting in or out of the low-slung car favors the youthful. The door and center armrests are rather firm.

The ride is taut and busy, even on the highway. But the handling is so good that the payoff for the sports-car-typical ride is clear.

Visibility through the short glass is restricted but certainly workable. A greater nuisance is how unpleasant it is to have the windows down when driving at highway speeds, because that allows the wind to swirl and create an uncomfortable drone.

There is no sunroof. Instead, there are a couple of bumps in the roof to allow space for helmets. This has a practical benefit because it maximizes headroom and helps keep the car's weight low (powered glass panels are heavy), and it's also a nod to race cars.

What We’ll Keep Our Eyes On
It is firmly established that the Supra is a hoot to play with. It impressed us on the track and delighted us on local jaunts, but we are interested in seeing how it is to live with on a daily basis for an extended period.

There is no question that the Supra is quick, with ferocious acceleration always a throttle squeeze away. We are eager to see how it compares in our formal track testing to its sports car rivals, the Z4, and the previous-generation Supra.

Once testing is complete, it may be telling to see how frequently the staff signs out the Supra. Our test fleet has more cars than we have drivers, so the number of miles logged on a car compared with those of other vehicles we own amounts to votes in a popularity contest. And right now, we are seeing that the Z4 is often shunned for more comfortable rides.

We very much look forward to buying our own Supra, once they go on sale this summer.

[Alfisti]

Honestly for on road driving i'd take the vert EVERY time.

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by The HACK

Still waiting for an outlet to do a back to back between the Zupra and the MZ4 Coupe...

I'm waiting on a Supra vs M2C comparison.

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by glennQNYC

I'm waiting on a Supra vs M2C comparison.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...on-zero-to-60/

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...-drive-review/

Supra seems to lead in acceleration, skidpad, braking, price. M2 competition has a better top end. Going to come down to needing backseats and/or styling.

[R N M]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Using modern BMW ZF EPS feel as a benchmark is sort of like using Cadillac's median buyer age to talk about how woke your buyers are. I stand by BRZ steering feel sucking. Extensive road and track time with them does not impress me.

The rumor has been that Subaru had a decent setup in place to take advantage of the low center of gravity and rearward engine placement and then Toyota's dual mode injection and some other engineering snafus forced the motor to be mounted further forward than intended, causing the steering rack to move forward and the steering arms to be in the front, rather than the rear of the front calipers, the ideal setup.

Reviews of the current WRX and STI have commented how they have better steering feel than the BRZ. That's just sad. I of course haven't driven the Zupra, and realize it will have BMW's take on ZF EPS, but I'd hope it has better steering than the GT86.

You sound clueless.

I also had E92 335i which had the holy grail hydraulic steering.
So i speak from experience including my current F80 M3.

Please show me 1 review that says WRX has better steering or is more fun to drive than BRZ. The only valid criticism vs 86/BRZ is the engine is not special enough to be in such a great car. To me the proportions, Interior layout, visibility, usability are all much better than the Supra. Not to mention its half the price and comes with a manual.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by R N M

You sound clueless.

I also had E92 335i which had the holy grail hydraulic steering.
So i speak from experience including my current F80 M3.

Please show me 1 review that says WRX has better steering or is more fun to drive than BRZ. The only valid criticism vs 86/BRZ is the engine is not special enough to be in such a great car. To me the proportions, Interior layout, visibility, usability are all much better than the Supra. Not to mention its half the price and comes with a manual.

I am clueless. You find it yourself, genius.

[R N M]

^
So nothing to backup your drivel and several posters already disagreed with you in regards to BRZ....

[hellrotm]

Originally Posted by R N M

I also had E92 335i which had the holy grail hydraulic steering.

[The HACK]

Originally Posted by R N M

I also had E92 335i which had the holy grail hydraulic steering.

Hold my beer.

-Z4 M Coupe.

[aftercompletion]

Originally Posted by R N M

I also had E92 335i which had the holy grail hydraulic steering.

Alexa how do I destroy any credibility I might have had in one sentence?

[Gangplank]

Originally Posted by aftercompletion

Alexa how do I destroy any credibility I might have had in one sentence?

Q: Alexa, what's the wholly grail of steering feel?

A: e82

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by R N M

^
So nothing to backup your drivel and several posters already disagreed with you in regards to BRZ....

Nope. I think your baby's ugly. Sorry.

I have friends who used to own them, I've driven them on track and off and I've debated buying one a number of times. To the point that it's just about negotiating a price. I can't do it. The steering isn't awful, but it also isn't good. Your points of reference seem lacking so I can see how you deal with it. My standards are higher. Drivel away, sparky.

There's hope that Subie will develop another one, without Toyota's missteps. Perhaps that one will be good, as the current STI/WRX do indeed have good steering.

[supra93]

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyo...mparison-test/

TOYOTA SUPRA VS. PORSCHE 718 CAYMAN VS. BMW M2 COMPETITION: WHICH IS THE SPORTS CAR CHAMP?

Supra Bowl: The reborn Toyota sports car takes on titans from Porsche and BMW

Here in Los Angeles, we know a lot about the sometimes fickle nature of football franchises. The Rams have returned from their St. Louis affair, and somehow we stole the Chargers from San Diego—although our onetime resident Raiders are once again the noisy neighbors to the north. So, you can say L.A. is a football town, even if the history is patchy.

To continue the analogy, you could also say Toyota City, Japan, is a sports car town with an equally patchy history. It'll make performance cars, then stop, then start again. This year, we welcome a new hometown hero—albeit one with shared heritage with an old-school sports car town in Germany—in the 2020 Toyota Supra.

With its shared German-Japanese DNA, the Supra makes a natural rival with a pair of league stalwarts with many championships between them: the Porsche Cayman and BMW M2 Competition. And they aren't about to let the new guy show them up.

First things first: Does the Supra move like a German car or a Japanese one? It's not dead flat around a corner like a track car. There's body roll when you crack the wheel, but it's quick, perfectly controlled, and deliberate. Dashing though a slalom section of mountain road, the Supra shifts its weight side to side like a barrel racing champion. The steering is super quick and has absolutely zero dead spots, so every movement you make on the wheel directly translates into precision and accuracy on the road. It lacks the feel of the best sports cars, but that's its only concession.

The standard adaptive dampers do a phenomenal Jekyll and Hyde routine, compliant and comfortable on the commute then appropriately stiff when you press Sport on the center console. Rather than fade, the brakes like heat, though the rear end gets light under hard braking from high speeds. Getting up to pace is easy, too, because the power delivery is smooth and linear all the way up.

"This car requires quiet hands and a deft touch," road test editor Chris Walton said, "and this makes it fun to drive. You have to figure out how the car works to make it work near its limits."

This is key. The Supra wants to be driven a specific way. You don't throw it into a corner, you lay it in. That quick steering will bite you if you aren't smooth and precise. When it does bite, though, the car becomes a Formula Drift champion. The car's balance and predictability while oversteering are entirely responsible for the longest drift I've ever completed on our figure-eight track.

The BMW likes to hang its ass out, too, but like a drunk, not a drifter. "More work than fun," testing director Kim Reynolds said of the BMW's figure eight, but I knew that long before he told me. He'd blown the braking point and run off the west end of the course twice—and Kim never blows the braking point. The brake pedal is grabby at application then wooden as you add force. Assuming you've creased the floorboard deep enough with the pedal to get the car slowed for the corner, you then get to deal with terminal understeer that suddenly becomes wild oversteer as soon as you get the front tires to grip somewhere midcorner. Quick hands will stop it from spinning out, but it's no Formula Drift machine.

"While the BMW feels controlled," Walton said, "it doesn't feel settled—ever." And he didn't even drive it on the track. The standard, nonadjustable suspension is track-day stiff, and all you get for it is a lot of bouncing up and down. Same with the engine, which feels monstrously powerful compared with the other two but isn't any quicker. The transmission needs another setting between two and three that's neither lazy nor neurotic.

Road or racetrack, the M2 is like a shaken bottle of soda. You can see all the bubbles fizzing to the top, and you think if you crack the cap open slightly you might be able to bleed off the pressure without it exploding all over you, but you don't know for sure. All you can think about is how messy it'll be if you're wrong.

(You might be asking now, why didn't we run the Supra against the BMW Z4 it shares its DNA with? Our Chris Walton has already done a back-to-back comparison of the two in prototype form, and besides, the Z4 is a convertible, so the M2 coupe is a more equitable match to the Toyota.)

The Porsche Cayman, conversely, is on the complete opposite side of the handling equation. Confident, measured, and buttoned-down, it's everything the M2 isn't. The steering is light and direct with better feedback than either of its test-mates. The suspension is stiff but still compliant, soaking up road rot while keeping the body level and both ends firmly in place. The brakes are equally responsive.

"Around the figure eight, I was fretting about the understeer," Reynolds said, "but on the mountain road, that same understeer sense gives it a reassurance and stability that's much appreciated."

Understeer is all I remember about my own figure-eight laps in the Cayman. I can't remember another mid-engine car that so adamantly refuses to rotate. All you can do is wait for the front end to come back and try not to think about how much quicker the car would be if it would just bite.

When you're not thinking about steering, you're thinking the car could really handle a lot more power. The base engine is quick enough on paper, but on the road, the midrange power is soft, and you're left with the unrelenting impression the chassis could handle so much more. Then you remember the Cayman S exists and start working on ways to justify the $12,400 price jump. Underpowered or not, the base Cayman is a hell of a dance partner.

Despite their different personalities, their performance numbers are almost identical. We triple-checked the numbers to be sure.

Zero to 60 mph: 3.9, 4.0, 4.1 seconds— Supra, M2, Cayman.
Quarter mile: 12.4 seconds at 114.7 mph, 12.5 seconds at 111.2 mph, 12.6 seconds at 110.3 mph— M2, Supra, Cayman.
Skidpad: 1.01 g, 1.01 g, 1.03 g— Supra, M2, Cayman.
Figure eight: 24.0 seconds at 0.83 g, 24.0 second at 0.81 g, 24.1 seconds at 0.82 g— Supra, Cayman, M2.
The only major deviation? Sixty to 0 braking: 97 feet, 99 feet, and 106 feet—Cayman, Supra, M2.

Forget keeping up with the competition, the Supra is stepping on their toes, intentionally.

Price is just the Yamazaki 12 Years Old whisky toast at this Supra party. For $57,375 fully loaded, the Supra puts down the same performance numbers for 10 grand less than the BMW and 15 grand less than the Porsche. Sure, the Cayman S has more power, but it starts at $70,550 and rings in at nearly $79,000 equipped with the same performance options. For that $21,000 extra splash on a comparably equipped Cayman S, you could buy a ton of Gazoo Racing go-faster parts for your Supra.

Now, some of you are going to argue the Supra's value by pointing to equipment levels, but it's not a row you want to hoe. It's true the Cayman starts at $58,150, not $71,930, and you could knock some nonessential options off our test car, which is already light on amenities. In order to maintain performance parity with the Supra, though, you gotta keep the performance options, so you're still in the neighborhood of $65,000. Same with the M2, which could ditch a few convenience features and come down to about $65,000, as well. Problem is, this game works on the Supra, too, and it's already eight grand cheaper fully loaded. Strip it down, and you can save another five thousand bucks.

Like Namath and the upstart New York Jets planting an AFL flag in the backside of the 18-point favorite NFL establishment's Baltimore Colts, the Supra wins this comparison not in a blowout but by grinding down the opposition with better strategy. Namath didn't throw a single touchdown pass in Super Bowl III, and the Supra didn't here, either. Instead, it carefully studied the other teams and exploited their weaknesses. It ran a touchdown at the test track taking down any on-paper advantage the opposition might have had, then finished off the second half by nailing its field goals on the road.

The Cayman may have dispatched the M2 like the Colts crushing the Browns in the NFL championship game, but against the scrappy AFL, the outcome was a Supra Bowl.

[M Coupe]

Fox Alpha!

[alex2364]

It looks like C&D's 1/4 mile time wasn't a fluke since Motor Trend is within 2 mph and 0.2 seconds.

[D22M2]

I might give that BMW Supra a go - I kinda like it

[yousefnjr]

Originally Posted by supra93

https://www.motortrend.com/cars/toyo...mparison-test/

That’ll do. Great value on this little bimmer.

[FlexGT85]

Originally Posted by yousefnjr

That’ll do. Great value on this little bimmer.

Love this! I want an M2 next, but this is really making me reconsider. What's surprising to me though is that they did the comparison vs. the M2 CS and not the regular M2. Why is that?

[Joe240]

Originally Posted by FlexGT85

Love this! I want an M2 next, but this is really making me reconsider. What's surprising to me though is that they did the comparison vs. the M2 CS and not the regular M2. Why is that?

M2C is the only one sold now. The OG M2 was discontinued. Next gen M2 might follow the steps of the new M line with multiple tiers (base, competition, GTS??)

[FlexGT85]

Originally Posted by Joe240

M2C is the only one sold now. The OG M2 was discontinued. Next gen M2 might follow the steps of the new M line with multiple tiers (base, competition, GTS??)

Oh wow! News to me. No wonder I saw OG M2 on somebody's sig... I was wondering what that meant. I just assumed the base M2 would get a souped up B58 for 2020-21 and the M2 CS would get the S58. So are they keeping the S55 for M2 CS duty indefinitely?