[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by chassis

Cyber truck will be squashed by F-150 Lightning. Ford will let no company trespass on its franchise.

Semi is a nothing burger revenue- and profit-wise. A dozen or more companies are ahead of Tesla in Class 5-8 eCVs. Added to this, the market size (units) in Class 4-8 is less than 10% of the market size of light vehicles (Classes 1-3). CV customers (large fleets) buy reliability, total lifecycle cost and support and not tennis shoe wearing goofball California personalities.

The competition level is rising and TSLA is not equipped financially to weather the storm. Market cap does not equal liquidity to fuel product portfolio investment. VW, Stellantis, Toyota and Ford will slowly surround Tesla and fence it into a corner.

I think the bigger issue is a competitive, cheap car in China to challenge that big brand I can’t remember the name. Teslas are still too expensive.

[antzcrashing]

Omg you guys are so boring. Following what the herd says. Tesla isn’t going anywhere. They will benefit from stimulus. The challengers will hit ceilings and Tesla will continue to innovate faster than them. Shorts will be squeezed (again). Added to my position today. It’s a small position less that 2% of my portfolio.

Come at me

[Tyga11]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Omg you guys are so boring. Following what the herd says. Tesla isn’t going anywhere. They will benefit from stimulus. The challengers will hit ceilings and Tesla will continue to innovate faster than them. Shorts will be squeezed (again). Added to my position today. It’s a small position less that 2% of my portfolio.

Come at me

Down to 4% of mine (was 28%)

I’m not a hater at all. I’m a buyer under $90 and that’s where I see it going. I follow Gary Black on Twitter

[chassis]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Omg you guys are so boring. Following what the herd says. Tesla isn’t going anywhere. They will benefit from stimulus. The challengers will hit ceilings and Tesla will continue to innovate faster than them. Shorts will be squeezed (again). Added to my position today. It’s a small position less that 2% of my portfolio.

Come at me

Please comment:
- F-150 Lightning
- Investment onslaught from VW + Toyota + Ford + Stellantis + GM

[dradernh]

I read a recent Car and Driver magazine review of the BMW i4. In it, the author wrote that "it makes the Tesla Model 3 and Model S, in particular, look shockingly crude." Ouch!

This has nothing to do with the stock price, of course.

[tom2021]

Most stocks go lower, however, BMWYY keeps rising recently.
Is there something going on here?

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by chassis

Please comment:
- F-150 Lightning
- Investment onslaught from VW + Toyota + Ford + Stellantis + GM

The ford is a major competitior for the cyber truck, but I think the uniqueness of the CT will still get some buyer share. Ford is a slow moving automaker, so Tesla can out innovate it. Things like infotainment, software, autonomous Tesla has an edge. Ford will win in quality category.

The companies you mentioned can invest all they want, their Achilles heel is that they bean count profits and the costs of parts in these cars is high. Tesla doesn’t do their accounting that way bc they are a Silicon Valley tech company. To truly compete with Tesla they would have to spin off their EV division.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

The ford is a major competitior for the cyber truck, but I think the uniqueness of the CT will still get some buyer share. Ford is a slow moving automaker, so Tesla can out innovate it. Things like infotainment, software, autonomous Tesla has an edge. Ford will win in quality category.

The companies you mentioned can invest all they want, their Achilles heel is that they bean count profits and the costs of parts in these cars is high. Tesla doesn’t do their accounting that way bc they are a Silicon Valley tech company. To truly compete with Tesla they would have to spin off their EV division.

Compete = market share, is this what you mean? If company A out-competes company B, company A would be the one with a larger share of the market?

[2008M36MT]

I'm sorry but LOL at anyone who genuinely thinks the software and infotainment in a Tesla is good. All these years spent on technology and it is dull, complicated, unintuitive and full of menus. Worse, it does not integrate with something that is the most intuitive and widely used infotainment, our phones.
The basic CarPlay interface is better than Tesla's offering. Let me know how that fares once the full CarPlay ecosystem starts being integrated into the F150.
Interior Advantage: All manufacturers > Tesla.
Now talk about exterior. You're telling me that the design, er the absence thereof, make the Cybertruck appealing? It's basic as any Soviet era Lada, though consistently basic like the rest of Tesla's offerings.
Exterior Advantage: All manufacturers > Tesla.

You didn't address any arguments made by Tesla detractors. None of them said Tesla would go away. But to think that Tesla will somehow justify it's astronomical price and continue growing exponentially? C'mon. Talk about living in a dream world.

[2008M36MT]

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/fo...ng-01672928931

EV sales more than tripling...and that's just one manufacturer. Sure hope Tesla's non-vehicle innovation continues, recent news seems to be confirming what those of us with common sense are thinking regarding vehicle competition and market share.
I'm off my Tesla soapbox.

[antzcrashing]

Originally Posted by chassis

Compete = market share, is this what you mean? If company A out-competes company B, company A would be the one with a larger share of the market?

Let me state it this way: to take Tesla off the map and obsolete their cars (which is what many of today’s tesla critics imply)

I am saying Tesla has survival skills, and I think it can grow from here. The majority opinion seems to be that Tesla can only shrink and possibly collapse from here. I disagree

[chassis]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Let me state it this way: to take Tesla off the map and obsolete their cars (which is what many of today’s tesla critics imply)

I am saying Tesla has survival skills, and I think it can grow from here. The majority opinion seems to be that Tesla can only shrink and possibly collapse from here. I disagree

No one said that. You are creating a strawman argument.

Is market share an outcome of competition?

[XutvJet]

Elon Musk has said multiple times that Tesla is not a car company, it's an energy and innovation company. He knew long ago that other automakers would eventually catch up and that Tesla may eventually not build cars, but rather be a major supplier of the powertrains, batteries, and tech for the other automakers so that Tesla could shift its focus to other "energy" markets.

The unfortunate part to all of this is that Elon has gone off the deep end and has let his ego get the best of him. He's not a personable guy and needs to remove himself large social exposure and basically keep non-tech thoughts to himself.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by chassis

No one said that. You are creating a strawman argument.

Is market share an outcome of competition?

Bingo. I don't think anyone here has said nor believes that Tesla will fail. However, we are saying that if their strategy is largely dependent on automotive manufacturing (as antzcrashing seems to suggest), then Tesla stock is currently overvalued (certainly was at $400/share) and will not increase to some astronomical figure like $1K/share on THIS basis. He conflates margin with demand. Yes, Tesla is light years ahead on margin, but that is irrelevant if they lose market share due to competition. Recent data seems to be showing exactly that. And what's going to happen if demand goes down? Margin will erode as well. Even if Tesla is currently the most innovative auto manufacturer, consumers clearly want more choice. 4 cars in 5 colors that almost all have the same stale and bland interior and exterior designs, with terrible ICE/software is in my opinion not innovative. I haven't seen Tesla the car manufacturer do anything innovative in the last 2 years to justify the run up to $400/share.

I am genuinely curious in understanding the counterpoints to my posts, but at this point I feel like a nagging "basic" GF, who is making "hater" comments.

Originally Posted by XutvJet

Elon Musk has said multiple times that Tesla is not a car company, it's an energy and innovation company. He knew long ago that other automakers would eventually catch up and that Tesla may eventually not build cars, but rather be a major supplier of the powertrains, batteries, and tech for the other automakers so that Tesla could shift its focus to other "energy" markets.

The unfortunate part to all of this is that Elon has gone off the deep end and has let his ego get the best of him. He's not a personable guy and needs to remove himself large social exposure and basically keep non-tech thoughts to himself.

I agree with you. If we are to see Tesla succeed as a company it's because of this, not because they are such an innovative automotive manufacturer. 10 years ago? Sure. 2 years from now? Heck no, unless they bring something to the automotive market that nobody else can. But I don't think they can.

[XutvJet]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

I agree with you. If we are to see Tesla succeed as a company it's because of this, not because they are such an innovative automotive manufacturer. 10 years ago? Sure. 2 years from now? Heck no, unless they bring something to the automotive market that nobody else can. But I don't think they can.

They could be wildly successful if they'd make a Prius sized car with a single 200hp motor and a Ford Maverick-type unibody truck with single and dual motor options with a max power of 300hp.

Tesla and all the other automakers continue to focus on selling high-end, over-powered, and expensive EVs. It makes no sense to me if you are really trying to make EVs more attainable to the masses. 600hp+ in a street car is just stupid and dangerous, IMO. Most drivers already rarely use the power they have in a 200hp-300hp vehicle and many have trouble controlling the acceleration at WOT. If most EVs weren't AWD, I can only imagine how many wrecks there would be.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by XutvJet

They could be wildly successful if they'd make a Prius sized car with a single 200hp motor and a Ford Maverick-type unibody truck with single and dual motor options with a max power of 300hp.

Tesla and all the other automakers continue to focus on selling high-end, over-powered, and expensive EVs. It makes no sense to me if you are really trying to make EVs more attainable to the masses. 600hp+ in a street car is just stupid and dangerous, IMO. Most drivers already rarely use the power they have in a 200hp-300hp vehicle and many have trouble controlling the acceleration at WOT. If most EVs weren't AWD, I can only imagine how many wrecks there would be.

Yup. I’d say the odds are stacked against Tesla since it’s them vs. against every other manufacturer, and surely regardless of who does it first, the others won’t be far behind. Perhaps people like me have driven this way off topic.
Is Tesla a good at a good point to enter as a long term investment? I’m skeptic right now, but then again, I have 975 shares of AAPL right now which seems to be getting worse by the day, especially when Wedbush analysis are revising their numbers down.

[2008M36MT]

Originally Posted by XKxRome0ox

Nice
Now do it again

Sold 950@$132.65 for a ~$2900 gain.

[chassis]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

Yup. I’d say the odds are stacked against Tesla since it’s them vs. against every other manufacturer, and surely regardless of who does it first, the others won’t be far behind. Perhaps people like me have driven this way off topic.
Is Tesla a good at a good point to enter as a long term investment? I’m skeptic right now, but then again, I have 975 shares of AAPL right now which seems to be getting worse by the day, especially when Wedbush analysis are revising their numbers down.

Re: is TSLA a good investment. Where will they grow?

China? Likely not, have a look at BYD and consider the Chinese foreign investing climate.

Europe? Ask VW about that.

US? Maybe but remember the many billions of dollars that F, GM and STLA are investing. Growth might be possible, but the growth rate will be lower, which will pressure the TSLA's p/e lower. And the little nippers like Rivian and Vinfast, which could turn into big nippers if they execute well.

[floridaorange]

MULN

[2008M36MT]

I’m back in 275@$129.02 AAPL.

[XKxRome0ox]

Originally Posted by 2008M36MT

I’m back in 275@$129.02 AAPL.

rinse and repeat

[2008M36MT]

If you're listening to CNBC this morning, post CPI release, the sentiment is that the economy is healthy and it's blue skies ahead for the markets. Recession is less likely and one commenter said the burden of proof for a recession is shifting to its proponents. Their sentiment shifts so profoundly just because the CPI drop is in line with economists' expectations.