[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by alex2364

The problem with Cayman GTS vs Supra is that a similar spec Cayman GTS will be $100k compared to loaded $55k Supra. I could buy almost 2 Supras for 1 Cayman GTS.

$20k of options on a GTS gets you well beyond any available options on a Supra. Using a $70k Cayman S, or an $80k GTS, you'd get out for under $85k with a similar setup to a Launch Edition Supra, although $3k of that is a PDK I'd personally skip. Add in that a Supra will likely have a stupid dealer markup for six months to a year and you can get a Cayman for a few grand over invoice without trying and your price delta is still amazingly large, but it isn't nearly as big as some folks are making it out to be.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

$20k of options on a GTS gets you well beyond any available options on a Supra. Using a $70k Cayman S, or an $80k GTS, you'd get out for under $85k with a similar setup to a Launch Edition Supra, although $3k of that is a PDK I'd personally skip. Add in that a Supra will likely have a stupid dealer markup for six months to a year and you can get a Cayman for a few grand over invoice without trying and your price delta is still amazingly large, but it isn't nearly as big as some folks are making it out to be.

A base Cayman GTS doesn't come with:

Auto climate control
Auto dimming mirrors
Rain sensing wipers
Heated seats
Power seats
Memory seats
Power folding exterior mirrors
Keyless entry and go
Navigation
Apple CarPlay
Upgraded sound system
Auto high beams
LED headlights
Heated steering wheel
Automatic transmission
Lane change assist

I get all of these things on a $55k Supra. I can easily option a Cayman GTS for $100k+ with these options. Wait 6 months and Toyota dealers will be giving these away at invoice.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by alex2364

A base Cayman GTS doesn't come with:

Auto climate control
Auto dimming mirrors
Rain sensing wipers
Heated seats
Power seats
Memory seats
Power folding exterior mirrors
Keyless entry and go
Navigation
Apple CarPlay
Upgraded sound system
Auto high beams
LED headlights
Heated steering wheel
Automatic transmission
Lane change assist

I get all of these things on a $55k Supra. I can easily option a Cayman GTS for $100k+ with these options. Wait 6 months and Toyota dealers will be giving these away at invoice.

Most of that fluff is part of a $1700 option package. And yeah, the PDK is expensive. But you're still not going to get near $100k just putting that stuff on. Not even $90k.

And why pay for both Apple/Android and Nav? I like that Porsche lets you leave off the overpriced nav.

Picking nits, but Lane Change is still an option on the Launch Edition. Fact is that the real delta is under $30k. Still a humorous 50+% premium, but no where near the 100% that you started with.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Most of that fluff is part of a $1700 option package. And yeah, the PDK is expensive. But you're still not going to get near $100k just putting that stuff on. Not even $90k.

And why pay for both Apple/Android and Nav? I like that Porsche lets you leave off the overpriced nav.

Picking nits, but Lane Change is still an option on the Launch Edition. Fact is that the real delta is under $30k. Still a humorous 50+% premium, but no where near the 100% that you started with.

That "$1700 option package" is actually $1970 and it requires the sports seats with memory for $3030 so it's a total of $5000. Now you're already at $89k. Add everything else on the list and you'll be at $100k. You obviously aren't very well versed in Porsche options.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by alex2364

That "$1700 option package" is actually $1970 and it requires the sports seats with memory for $3030 so it's a total of $5000. Now you're already at $89k. Add everything else on the list and you'll be at $100k. You obviously aren't very well versed in Porsche options.

I'm familiar with their options and their discounting. You keep trying to play one side of the argument. You can add each of those options piecemeal and still save from the total option package.

I've conceded that the Cayman will be more expensive, no one's arguing that. But spending $100k on a non GT4 Cayman is just silly. And of course that's sticker price, which again unrealistic. We'll see what Supra pricing does, but you're definitely not getting a Launch Edition for sticker or even close to it. And we don't know individual option prices to know if they're discounting the LE package.

[alex2364]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

I'm familiar with their options and their discounting. You keep trying to play one side of the argument. You can add each of those options piecemeal and still save from the total option package.

I've conceded that the Cayman will be more expensive, no one's arguing that. But spending $100k on a non GT4 Cayman is just silly. And of course that's sticker price, which again unrealistic. We'll see what Supra pricing does, but you're definitely not getting a Launch Edition for sticker or even close to it. And we don't know individual option prices to know if they're discounting the LE package.

You keep coming up with new arguments how pricing isn't what I've said but you haven't come up with any supporting evidence to your argument. There are in fact many Toyota dealers selling the Supra at MSRP today. There is even a thread about it on a Supra forum if you know how to use Google.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/u-s...mark-ups.1599/

You've gone from "beyond any available options on a Supra" to "spending $100k on a non GT4 Cayman is just silly". Well I would argue majority of Cayman GTS buys want highly optioned cars. Of all the 136 new Cayman GTS on Cars.com today, 102 of them are $90k+ MSRP, and 25 them are $100k+ MSRP.

[NickyC]

No comment regarding people who would pay over MSRP for this thing.

[pukicabuki]

Toyota is telling dealers they're not allowed to use ADMs on the Supra. The Toyota dealer my father used to work at is telling people MSRP and taking deposits.

Not saying there aren't dealers that won't try it but that's the info I've been given by the GM of one of the largest Toyota dealers in the region..

[Dog Face Pony Soldier]

Originally Posted by alex2364

You keep coming up with new arguments how pricing isn't what I've said but you haven't come up with any supporting evidence to your argument. There are in fact many Toyota dealers selling the Supra at MSRP today. There is even a thread about it on a Supra forum if you know how to use Google.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/u-s...mark-ups.1599/

You've gone from "beyond any available options on a Supra" to "spending $100k on a non GT4 Cayman is just silly". Well I would argue majority of Cayman GTS buys want highly optioned cars. Of all the 136 new Cayman GTS on Cars.com today, 102 of them are $90k+ MSRP, and 25 them are $100k+ MSRP.

My personal Cayman GTS build has a ~$35k delta from my Supra build. These are retail prices, and I'm sure we all agree you're going to get a better discount on the Cayman for at least the rest of 2019.

Now only if I could fit a set of clubs in the Porsche... 😒

[WestRace]

I would wait a few months. The Supra is not something exotic or special but a mass produced vehicle. You will probably get a discount at below MSRP eventually (same probably true for the Z4).

[D22M2]

Originally Posted by NickyC

No comment regarding people who would pay over MSRP for this thing.

Or any car..

[supra93]

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by pukicabuki

Toyota is telling dealers they're not allowed to use ADMs on the Supra. The Toyota dealer my father used to work at is telling people MSRP and taking deposits.

Not saying there aren't dealers that won't try it but that's the info I've been given by the GM of one of the largest Toyota dealers in the region..

I hope this is true. It's part of what killed the Focus RS. I know a few of multiple dealers that were still trying to sell them for far above MSRP for quite a while. Deep into last year.

Add in that nearly all Ford dealers weren't allowing test drives, bye-bye AWD hot hatch.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

I hope this is true. It's part of what killed the Focus RS. I know a few of multiple dealers that were still trying to sell them for far above MSRP for quite a while. Deep into last year.

Add in that nearly all Ford dealers weren't allowing test drives, bye-bye AWD hot hatch.

Well, and in the meantime the ones in customers' hands were busy eating their head gaskets and Ford was denying there was a problem.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Well, and in the meantime the ones in customers' hands were busy eating their head gaskets and Ford was denying there was a problem.

And Ford made it right. You can't expect a company to start a recall when they've only seen a few failures, with no investigation into affected VINs to find a beginning and end to the problem.

[Red Bread]

Originally Posted by OkieSnuffBox

And Ford made it right. You can't expect a company to start a recall when they've only seen a few failures, with no investigation into affected VINs to find a beginning and end to the problem.

They did, and it actually sounds like it was a faulty supplier, not a bad design. But when played against comical dealer mark ups it made it really hard to have any interest in that car.

[OkieSnuffBox]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

They did, and it actually sounds like it was a faulty supplier, not a bad design. But when played against comical dealer mark ups it made it really hard to have any interest in that car.

My big thing was that they wouldn't let me take it for a test drive unless I signed a sales contract. Then said, we could take it around the block, and if I didn't like it we could tear up the contract.

Yeah, I'm going to sign the sales contract on a $43k car (most of the dealers in OKC didn't have markup on them at the end of 2017).

I left and went and drove an '18 SS 1LE and an '18 STi. I walked into the Chevy dealership with my helmet and said, "I want to see how I fit and I want to take it for a drive."

They went and got the keys and off we went. The ergo's of it were perfect for me, but damn so hard to see out of compared to the '13 Mustang GT I had before.

[supra93]

[R N M]

Had a chance to see the new Supra in person at the NY Auto Show, here is the video of it.

[supra93]

[supra93]

[supra93]

https://www.carthrottle.com/post/hks...r-with-700bhp/

HKS is the latest company to build a 2ZJ-powered version of the new A90 Toyota GR Supra, and it'll be drifting its way up Goodwood hill next week

You didn’t think Daigo Saito’s A90 drift car would be the only 2JZ-powered Supra, did you? We’re already on our third - the second being a car fielded by Saito’s fellow D1 GP drifter Kawabata Masato - with this latest effort coming from HKS.

The Japanese company - which supplied to parts to both previous 2JZ A90 Supra efforts - has revealed its own entry into this new tuning niece ahead of a public debut at next weekend’s Goodwood Festival of Speed. There, it will slide its way up the famous hill climb with official HKS driver Nobuteru Taniguchi at the helm.

The setup sounds quite similar to Saito’s car. The 2JZ-GTE in this one has the same 3.4-litre HKS enlargement kit and an HKS GTIII-4R turbocharger. Power is slightly lower at just under 700bhp, but that’ll be plenty for Taniguchi-san to light up the rearmost Yokohama Advan A052 tyres while he’s sitting in the Bride driver’s seat.

The HKS A90 drift monster sits on Hipermax dampers and has been given a dramatic wide-arch conversion. The finishing touch is a giant rear wing.

We can’t imagine there’s a whole lot of stock A90 Supra left in there, but who cares when the resulting car looks like this?