[supra93]

More pics

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by Red Bread

Does BMW offer an inline six and a manual once the F3x ends production? I realize the rumor is that the Z4 will have a manual, so it's certainly possible, but outside of the G8x and the Z4, BMW is largely out of the manual game. Oops, and the M2c (although I'm not sure if it will be in production any longer than the F8x.)

You’re on the right track with the M2 and M4. Those, along with the M240i Coupe (and I think the convertible too, not 100% sure) and 440i Coupe, will be BMW’s last remaining gasoline I6 powered vehicles with manual transmissions once the current 3 Series and M3 end production in October.

These, however, are all in the last half of their lifespans and use what are now legacy engines.

The B58TU will soon replace the original B58 and the S58 will soon replace the S55. There is no evidence of a manual transmission paired with the B58 TU, including not in the G20 M340i nor the G29 Z4 40i/M40i. There is a tiny chance it could happen in the G42 M240i and/or G22 M440i, but I would suggest that is unlikely. There is, however, a very good chance the S58 will get a manual transmission in the G8x M2, and it is still very possible the same could happen for the G80 M3 and G82 M4.

What this could mean, in a highly speculative context mind you, is that a Supra with a manual transmission would be a Supra with an S58. Frankly I think that combo, should it come to market, would be what could save this vehicle from ending up a footnote in the history books.

[supra93]

https://www.motoring.com.au/born-aga...tralia-113839/

Striking $2.7m concept car visits Oz; production version due for local launch in mid-2019

Toyota’s fifth-generation Toyota Supra has made its Australian debut in concept form, but the production version is yet to be officially confirmed for local release.

However, while Toyota Australia remains cagey about Supra details — including its local launch, pricing and specs — motoring.com.au understands the born-again Toyota Supra will be confirmed for the Aussie market at a European drive event in September.

The global rollout of the new Toyota Supra will begin in early next year and, depending on worldwide demand, the high-performance sports car should be available here from around mid-2019.

To maintain the hype, its launch has been preceded by the appearance of the one-off Toyota GR Supra Racing Concept, which premiered at the Geneva motor show in March, at special functions around the world – including the 2018 Goodwood Festival of Speed, where a camouflaged production version of the new Supra made its world debut.

Demonstrating just how important the Aussie market will be for the new tyre-frying, rear-drive coupe, the multi-million-dollar Toyota Supra concept was air-freighted directly from Goodwood for a brief viewing by media and enthusiasts at Toyota Australia HQ in Port Melbourne on Saturday.

Australians buy a disproportionately high number of high-performance cars and the GR Supra Racing Concept’s flying visit was designed to whet the appetites of Supra fans — and potentially a few Ford Mustang and Porsche Cayman owners too.

Toyota Australia’s public affairs manager, Brodie Bott, said the concept car’s arrival in Australia was “hugely exciting”.

“There are a lot of die-hard fans here in Australia when it comes to Supra, and to top it off it’s a $2.7 million concept. That would probably make it the most expensive Supra going round I’d say!”

Developed in tandem with the next-generation BMW Z4 roadster, which will be built alongside it at the Magna Steyr plant in Austria, the 2019 Toyota Supra coupe will become the Japanese giant’s flagship sports car.

We know the compact rear-wheel drive two-seater will weigh just under 1500kg, offer 50:50 weight distribution and bring the choice of either 195kW 2.0-litre inline turbo four-cylinder or 250kW 3.0-litre turbo inline six-cylinder engines.

Australian pricing for the new Toyota Supra is a hot topic, but Toyota is keeping mum for now.

Best guesses are that the 2019 Toyota Supra will be priced to compete with the Ford Mustang, with a sub-$60,000 price for the entry-level 2.0-litre version, but the jury’s out on the big-daddy six-cylinder Supra.

Depending on equipment levels, the fastest Supra should still cost well under $100,000.

Bott wouldn’t talk about local details, but when asked whether the 2019 Toyota Supra will be one of the brand’s most expensive models (the Toyota LandCruiser Sahara V8 diesel costs a smidge over $120,000), thus putting it out of reach for many buyers, Bott appeared unfazed.

“I talked to one of the Supra car club guys earlier and I said ‘Will you trade in the old one?’. He said ‘No I just need to find more room in the garage.’

“So I think with that in mind it’s pretty safe to say for most people they’ll want to get their hands on one, regardless of the cost.”

“We are getting lots of requests direct to us and via dealers,” said Bott, conceding that global demand for the first Supra in more than a decade will be significant.

This will make supply tight and could result in lengthy queues, not unlike the 12-month waits customers endured when the new-gen Ford Mustang first launched here in January 2016.

“We always push for as many cars as possible and we’re still crunching numbers at the moment, but something like the Supra is not always about volume,” offered Bott.

Toyota will invite automotive media to drive pre-production versions of the new 2019 Toyota Supra in Europe in September, which is when first Australian details will be announced, according to our sources.

There will be road and track testing in Spain but the exterior and interior of the new Toyota Supra will remain camouflaged until the brand decides to officially reveal the car.

It’s unclear when or where that will be, but there’s talk that the world’s biggest enthusiast and tuning expo, SEMA in Las Vegas, could be the place in early November.

The 2019 Toyota Supra revives an iconic sports car nameplate that stretches back to 1978 and has a cult following among enthusiasts and tuners.

Positioned above the Toyota 86 coupe ($31,000-$40,000), it will be a new halo model that’s expected to bring more customers into Toyota dealerships, providing a flow-down effect on sales of other models such as the all-new Toyota Corolla that here in August.

“The Supra represents a new chapter for Toyota and the new TNGA architecture is really helping us move the direction of Toyota forward as well,” said Bott.

“You see it in the C-HR, you’ll see it in the new Corolla. It’s lower to the ground, it’s a more rigid body, it has a sportier design. It is a really exciting time for Toyota.”

Stay tuned for more Supra details as they leak out…

[supra93]

[Mingwan]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

You’re on the right track with the M2 and M4. Those, along with the M240i Coupe (and I think the convertible too, not 100% sure) and 440i Coupe, will be BMW’s last remaining gasoline I6 powered vehicles with manual transmissions once the current 3 Series and M3 end production in October.

These, however, are all in the last half of their lifespans and use what are now legacy engines.

The B58TU will soon replace the original B58 and the S58 will soon replace the S55. There is no evidence of a manual transmission paired with the B58 TU, including not in the G20 M340i nor the G29 Z4 40i/M40i. There is a tiny chance it could happen in the G42 M240i and/or G22 M440i, but I would suggest that is unlikely. There is, however, a very good chance the S58 will get a manual transmission in the G8x M2, and it is still very possible the same could happen for the G80 M3 and G82 M4.

What this could mean, in a highly speculative context mind you, is that a Supra with a manual transmission would be a Supra with an S58. Frankly I think that combo, should it come to market, would be what could save this vehicle from ending up a footnote in the history books.

A Supra with an S58? That with a couple of overnight parts from Germany it should decimate all.

[supra93]

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/hav...s-engine.1357/

[Red Bread]

[IMG]https://www.wardsauto.com/sites/ward...?itok=cQ-fkCge[/IMG]

[wdb]

Too bad about the slab of plastic under the hood. I guess there's an engine in there somewhere...

[supra93]

http://blog.toyota.co.uk/new-toyota-...-or-not-to-see

There comes a time when new prototype vehicles have to escape the restricted access of a development facility and be tested on public roads. Spy photographers lie in wait for this moment, so prototypes are usually disguised, typically with extra body cladding and an optically confusing camouflage pattern.

Of course, this kind of masking cannot disguise the physical size of a car. But if you squint a little and use your imagination, it is possible to get a rough approximation of the vehicle’s shape or even hazard a guess at the manufacturer.

Toyota was aware that anticipation was high surrounding the long-awaited arrival of the fifth-generation Supra, and that it would be impossible to hide the existence of its prototypes in public. So the approach for this intriguing development phase was changed from being an attempt to hide final details from prying eyes to a way of ensuring that its audience of fans would notice the car.

Dan Beckett, Head of Art at Toyota Europe’s creative agency, commented: “As you get closer to launch you might want to tease the forthcoming model; you might want it to look more distinctive so that when spy shots are published it is memorable.

“So there is an opportunity there to create a camouflage that is a little more distinctive, something that has a memorable design that is not just the standard zig-zag or spiral pattern that many manufacturers use.”

Importantly, the masking still had to function as a way of hiding the finer details of the car’s form, but it also couldn’t blend into the background like military camouflage. How was this balance achieved in the design?

Dan goes on to explain: “During our research we looked at the dazzle camouflage applied to battle ships in the First World War. The effect of these bold, intersecting geometric patterns was not to hide the boat’s existence but disguise its shape and even the direction it was facing. So that was a great place to start…

“But we also drew inspiration from the Toyota Gazoo Racing livery, which uses large black-and-red trapezoidal shapes set on a white background. And the most recognisable visual cue in motorsport – the waving chequered flag. Finally we added the A90 chassis code so that people in-the-know would recognise that the car underneath was the next-generation Supra.”

A combination of these elements eventually came together into a carefully arranged pattern. But the attention to detail went further than that, as Dan revealed: “As we refined the design we adopted micro and macro pattern principles to ensure the camouflage would perform well at any distance: small individual cells for close viewing and larger element groups to confuse the shapes at a distance. In other words, so that the pattern doesn’t become an even tone and the camouflage effect fails.”

This functionality was initially examined on a computer-generated model of the FT-1 concept, before being tested in the metal on the similarly proportioned GT86. Vinyl panels with gloss and matt finishes were applied so that photography tests could be performed under different lighting conditions. In these it was discovered that a gloss finish was most effective in natural light. And as this was the environment the vehicle would most often be seen in, that’s what was presented for final approval with Toyota Motor Corporation executives in Japan and the new A90 Supra’s chief engineer Tetsuya Tada.

Interestingly, Tada was involved in the design process of this camouflage from the beginning, and it has been so well-received within the company and on social media that many have called for it to be made available as a cost option for future buyers. Only time will tell whether their wish will be granted.

[supra93]

Google Translate - Alain Dujardin-Toyota Gazoo Racing said:

Yes it actually plays a pretty important role because we actually started, new to Europe as well, with our motorsport activities. We are in the WRC rally, very important for the sale of the Yaris. Then of course we also have excellent results in Le Mans. For many years, finally tried number one. And we can immediately link these motorsport activities to the car market. For this we use the Toyota Gazoo Racing procedure. This is our new brand for sports car activities and the Supra is of course the flagship for this new activity. In Europe and the world. So the still stealthy Supra makes his first laps on the track of the festival. It's a really pure sports car. It's quite different from the GT 86 where we had to pay more attention to economic procedures and still have a vehicle that really gives driving pleasure. But this vehicle is of course something else. It is very extreme in driving conditions. We really tried to get the best out of it. Which of course is the claim, because we want to bring the past of the Supra back on the market. Construction is in cooperation with BMW. Under the hood is a 6-cylinder in-line engine and that's of course historically important, because the Supra was always present with a series 6-cylinder. In terms of performance, the Supra should offer more than 450 hp. The production starts early next year and you can expect the car in the summer, at the dealers in Germany.

[mkoesel]

...Under the hood is a 6-cylinder in-line engine and that's of course historically important, because the Supra was always present with a series 6-cylinder. In terms of performance, the Supra should offer more than 450 hp. The production starts early next year and you can expect the car in the summer, at the dealers in Germany.

I agree with that statement.

The question is, will it? So far, the evidence suggests no, at least not when it debuts. If a 450hp engine is indeed coming, how long will it be?

[supra93]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

I agree with that statement.

The question is, will it? So far, the evidence suggests no, at least not when it debuts. If a 450hp engine is indeed coming, how long will it be?

Yup, some people think that he was referring to the GRMN version and that the base straight six will be the 350hp B58. All I can recall is that insider A70TTR has said something a long these lines: "the GRMN is a very special car that will be launch at a later date".

Anyways, a look at trunk space.

[Red Bread]

Isn't it conceivable that a B58 plus some form of hybrid powertrain would easily get us to 450hp?

Not saying I like that solution, but if Toyota is going to contribute something to this project, that seems like the most likely answer.

[supra93]

Here is the latest from insider A70.

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/hav...-17#post-22715

Originally Posted by A70TTR

Finally heard back a few mins ago when I was away from a computer, but the engine in the Goodwood car is indeed the iron block engine refined by Toyota and ex-Yamaha powertrain engineers.

It was also stressed that trims and aesthetics are not yet finalized.

And there was something else, but I'll have to go back through later to see if I can find it; something about the 4cyl.

(Remember though, that my information is not to be relied upon in any way and is worthless)

https://www.supramkv.com/threads/hav...-18#post-22723

Originally Posted by A70TTR

I don't think so, I think it is only the iron block I6. I haven't heard of that expertise being applied anywhere else.

----------------------------------------------

I found out some specific new things about the 4cyl, but it was my eyes only unfortunately. Still no word on if US is getting it or not though.

EDIT: they did mention in a roundabout way about getting the Toyota 86 for $20k less though (hint hint)

[mkoesel]

An iron block makes no sense from a cost perspective, and it would also negate other weight saving measures. The sole reason an iron block even makes it into conversation is because of the 2JZ. But they aren't going to put money into a needlessly overbuilt engine that perhaps 3% of owners might ever benefit from. Furthermore it isn't 1991, and you don't even need an iron block to make big power. S55 builds have approached 800hp to the wheels, and the B58 has a closed deck block like the S55. It's a non-issue.

If it turns out that an iron block genuinely was prioritized over a manual transmission and an engine with enough power from the factory to keep from being embarrassed by a Mustang GT or Camaro SS (which, thanks to the NASCAR tie-in, is what this car will inevitably be measured against), then this is a real sh*t show. I give Toyota more credit than that.

[Never_Enough]

I'm so sick of this car & it's not even out.

[M3_WC]

Originally Posted by mkoesel

An iron block makes no sense from a cost perspective, and it would also negate other weight saving measures.

...

I give Toyota more credit than that.

It isn't a traditional iron block, it is rumored to be CGI.

[supra93]

[Red Bread]

Is it me or is it getting uglier?

[supra93]

I like it, looks fine to me. This guys sums it up pretty nicely when MKV members were crapping all over the leaked Z4 patents.

Originally Posted by gymratter

not surprised to see the amount of dislike towards the styling of the Z4 here. the design is catered towards the BMW crowd and not for you guys. like wise many on bimmerpost find the styling of the Supra to be over the top, cartoonish, too busy, overstyled and etc. personally i think both cars look fine and appears to please their target audiences. in the end its about personal preferences. the old saying different strokes for different folks. i think the Z4 is more subdued and elegant. the Supra is definitely stands out from the crowd by being more sporty and aggressive.

[mkoesel]

Originally Posted by M3_WC

It isn't a traditional iron block, it is rumored to be CGI.

Great, but that doesn’t change the fact that the existing BMW block is perfectly suited for the application. It would be a waste of resources to reinvent what’s already been developed, put into production, and made available for use under the terms of the partnership.

[Mingwan]

Looks like the hood will open clamshell style based on the render on that magazine. That’s pretty neat. That panel that makes the rear air scoop looks cheap though. I think it looks fine so far.