[Neusser]

Originally Posted by vansonrider

Here is my take.

I lived in Germany for 5.5 years and lusted over a fast wagon. While living there I bought a very used Audi A6 Avant in 2015. It was so cool to me being from the US because it was different. Forbidden fruit to us North Americans. She didn't last long because of a catastrophic engine issues that was not worth fixing on a car that old. A few years pass and I want a fast car or wagon that I could afford and bring back to the US with me when I moved back. There was only one wagon option at the time. The MB E63 AMG wagon. Way out of my budget then. Nothing else was available at the time. So I bought a new 2018 M550 and had it modified by a German performance shop, 110K miles and going strong. It's been a great car but it lacks some utility. I'm not a SUV guy.

So here we are in 2024 and there are two options for fast wagons and the Volvo V60 isn't one of them. The RS6 and now the M5 Touring. The repair shop owner said the RS6 will be a maintenance nightmare, and yes I think it looks cool. They service BMW, Audi and VW. So I'm sure he knows what he's talking about. Plus it's priced too high for me. Plus I drive my cars a lot so putting a ton of miles on a RS6 no bueno! So here we are, I have one option and I want it, the M5 Touring. We'll see if I can get one. If you see a M5 Touring in North America in the future with two Yeti mountain bikes on it it's me!

Americans living in the US often have a weird thing about wagons. I think it is brain damage from the wood-paneled 70s Buick land whales or something.

They will say a wagon is boring and silly but then buy glorified breadvans from the same manufacturer--and do so by the bucket load. Some even with "motorsport" badging.

In most cases, I can no longer imagine getting the sedan version of a given vehicle over the wagon--and especially not an SUV. With a sporty wagon you can just about have it all.

[Crazy1323]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Americans living in the US often have a weird thing about wagons. I think it is brain damage from the wood-paneled 70s Buick land whales or something.

They will say a wagon is boring and silly but then buy glorified breadvans from the same manufacturer--and do so by the bucket load. Some even with "motorsport" badging.

In most cases, I can no longer imagine getting the sedan version of a given vehicle over the wagon--and especially not an SUV. With a sporty wagon you can just about have it all.

Shockingly, my local dealer has only had orders for Wagons.

[PaPaDrew G30]

Hopefully we get a full Tartfuo interior option when full interior is an option next year…

[midlifecrisis]

Originally Posted by PaPaDrew G30

Hopefully we get a full Tartfuo interior option when full interior is an option next year…

I’m with you! Tartufo would be killer.

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

The EU is not switching to NACS, they currently mandate CCS2, which is different (smaller and lighter) from the CCS plug in N. America. There is zero reason to be concerned about what type of plug a PHEV has, it doesn’t ever need to fast charge, even on a road trip. I have no concerns about the J1772 plug as that is what both of my current EVSEs have. You may not like the M5 itself, but please don’t spread misinformation regarding charging.

SAE/CCS vs. NACS EV Charging Ports

“Also, when asked, BMW executives told me that the G99 Touring will be shipped with the current recharging SAE J1772 connector plug, not the North American Charging Standard (NACS) that Tesla has and most European automobile manufacturers, including BMW, have committed to migrating to. G99's will not incorporate the NACS connector until the 2026 model year. Do you really want to order a new 2025 model year vehicle that will have an obsolete connector plug?”
__________________

TXSchnee & Crazy1323:

I stand by what I stated (quoted above), and it is not misinformation, but realize that it may not have been as clear as I had intended, so I will elaborate. First of all, I would not be surprised if around one half of all owners of new 2025 BMW G90/G99 M5’s will ever even open the charge port door and connect their vehicle to an electric charger. Because they really do not have to… Those owners who live in a free-standing home that can accommodate a charger may decide to purchase BMW’s charger for $1,000, plus professional installation costs.

My point is that the current charging system that BMW is using is the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Combined Charging System (CCS) with its J1772 standard charging plug. Over the past year, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, along with Ford, GM, Honda, Hyundai and Kia have all announced their intention and commitment to switch over to Tesla’s North American Charging Standard (NACS) port, using the J3400 plug. Most, but not all of these manufacturers have indicated that they will implement this change on their future cars, beginning with the 2026 model year. The NACS charging port handles both Level 1 and Level 2 AC charging, as well as the Supercharger network’s DC fast charging. Today, Tesla has more charger locations available than the non-Tesla networks in the U.S. which is geographic market I am discussing.

Yes, you and others who have existing non-Tesla EV’s or PHEV vehicles may purchase an adapter for your connector plug to eventually be able to access and utilize the NACS charging stations. When you are spending that much money for a new 2025 BMW M5 Sedan or Touring, do you really want to be saddled with a technology that has been superseded by one that will be far more available outside of your home’s garage/driveway and must deal with the hassle of having to always use an adapter? An analogy would be automobiles that still were being delivered with in-dash cassette players when the audio industry had migrated to CD’s and then subsequently to wireless streaming.

Unfortunately, for retrofitting a current EV or PHEV, it is not as simple as just swapping out a J1772 plug for a J3400 plug. Tesla made an engineering decision to share the same port pins for both AC and DC charging, making their plug more compact, but also more complex and expensive. Therefore, any attempt to change over from J1772 to J3400 there would need to be isolation and switching occurring inside the vehicle behind the actual port. FYI, one elegant solution is the option available today which is to purchase and install the $550 Tesla Universal Wall Connector since it has both a NACS J3400 connector and a CCS J1772 connector.

I think that the actual potential BMW customers who can afford to buy or lease the BMW M5 Touring and do not share my strong negative feelings about its exterior front and rear design, may possibly benefit by waiting for the next model year to avoid this issue entirely. Those who are in no hurry to get this M5 Touring may even decide to wait until the mid-cycle face lift in several years, which may also hopefully address the vehicle’s polarizing body design shortcomings….

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by AVB-AMG

SAE/CCS vs. NACS EV Charging Ports

“Also, when asked, BMW executives told me that the G99 Touring will be shipped with the current recharging SAE J1772 connector plug, not the North American Charging Standard (NACS) that Tesla has and most European automobile manufacturers, including BMW, have committed to migrating to. G99's will not incorporate the NACS connector until the 2026 model year. Do you really want to order a new 2025 model year vehicle that will have an obsolete connector plug?”
__________________

TXSchnee & Crazy1323:

I stand by what I stated (quoted above), and it is not misinformation, but realize that it may not have been as clear as I had intended, so I will elaborate. First of all, I would not be surprised if around one half of all owners of new 2025 BMW G90/G99 M5’s will ever even open the charge port door and connect their vehicle to an electric charger. Because they really do not have to… Those owners who live in a free-standing home that can accommodate a charger may decide to purchase BMW’s charger for $1,000, plus professional installation costs.

My point is that the current charging system that BMW is using is the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) Combined Charging System (CCS) with its J1772 standard charging plug. Over the past year, BMW, Mercedes-Benz, Volkswagen, Audi, Porsche, along with Ford, GM, Honda, Hyundai and Kia have all announced their intention and commitment to switch over to Tesla’s North American Charging [...]

I am aware of all this. I have a ‘23 Taycan CT 4S, had a ‘24 XM which I traded on a ‘24 Cayenne S E Hybrid. I am on a waiting list for the G99, and lack of NACS on a vehicle won’t deter me from buying a PHEV or BEV without one. There will never be a time where a PHEV, with current battery sizes, needs to fast charge. Also, you do not have to spend $1,000 on a BMW EVSE, buy a ChargePoint, GrizzelE or whatever you want, they all do the same thing (the actual charger is inside the vehicle, the EVSE is a fancy on/off switch).

[AVB-AMG]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

Shockingly, my local dealer has only had orders for Wagons.

Crazy1323:

That does not surprise me. I think that many of the potential purchasers of the 2025 BMW M5 Touring will be those who may have also considered choosing the BMW X5M or possibly the XM, but are intrigued with this new BMW station wagon model. It's low production, high cost and exclusivity may all contribute to form an appealing advantage to them as well. With only the Audi RS 6 Avant Performance as a true competitor that is currently available, and as we wait for the next generation of the Mercedes-Benz E63s AMG wagon, this niche segment of high-performance station wagons in the U.S. will truly be an inticing rarity.

As an American who has owned SUV's for the past 24 years, I am part of what I anticipate may be a growing group of automobile enthusiasts who are finally tired of being part of the vast pack of SUV owner’s in this country. For those of us who would like to drive a current model that meets our requirements for use as a daily driver, vacation road trip cruiser, utilitarian practicality hauler, while still providing grin-inducingt driving performance, and finally, visually aesthetically pleasing exterior and interior design, (to our personal tastes…), then these very few performance station wagons have a very strong appeal.

[vansonrider]

Originally Posted by Neusser

Americans living in the US often have a weird thing about wagons. I think it is brain damage from the wood-paneled 70s Buick land whales or something.

They will say a wagon is boring and silly but then buy glorified breadvans from the same manufacturer--and do so by the bucket load. Some even with "motorsport" badging.

In most cases, I can no longer imagine getting the sedan version of a given vehicle over the wagon--and especially not an SUV. With a sporty wagon you can just about have it all.

There is also a big misconception that SUVs are safer. One of my friends said she likes to sit up higher and see the road. I'm sure my M550 would fair better than her Mitsubishi Outlander in a crash. Plus over here in North America most don't know what it's like to pay European gas prices so we don't feel that pain and many are more likely to drive gas guzzlers. I know the M5 will not be getting Prius fuel economy but it will be more fun. Wagons here are deemed not cool. If and when I get an M5 Touring we'll see what they say. Tschuss.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by vansonrider

There is also a big misconception that SUVs are safer. One of my friends said she likes to sit up higher and see the road. I'm sure my M550 would fair better than her Mitsubishi Outlander in a crash. Plus over here in North America most don't know what it's like to pay European gas prices so we don't feel that pain and many are more likely to drive gas guzzlers. I know the M5 will not be getting Prius fuel economy but it will be more fun. Wagons here are deemed not cool. If and when I get an M5 Touring we'll see what they say. Tschuss.

Yes, a good point. The handling and high COG alone make most SUVs much more dangerous than any car.

Check out some of the videos of the famous German Elchtest ("moose test") emergency-avoidance maneuvers on YouTube. The SUVS often nearly tip over.

[Neusser]

Originally Posted by Crazy1323

Shockingly, my local dealer has only had orders for Wagons.

Progress!

[BimmerBahn]

Originally Posted by TXSchnee

The EU is not switching to NACS, they currently mandate CCS2, which is different (smaller and lighter) from the CCS plug in N. America. There is zero reason to be concerned about what type of plug a PHEV has, it doesn’t ever need to fast charge, even on a road trip. I have no concerns about the J1772 plug as that is what both of my current EVSEs have. You may not like the M5 itself, but please don’t spread misinformation regarding charging.

The PHEV is AC only, which isn't CCS... it's J1772 (Type1/NA) or Mennekes (Type2/EU). CCS Type-2 is essentially the Mennekes + DC, but without the AC pins..since well, you don't need them.

Once the move to NACS is completed...or at least implemented by BMW, I could see them transitioning to the NACS plug for AC charging...but it's probably a coin flip if it's really necessary. for J1772 cars, you need a NACS/J1772 adapter... for NACS cars, you need a J1772/NACS adapter...it's the way things are right now since we're transitioning.

[TXSchnee]

Originally Posted by BimmerBahn

The PHEV is AC only, which isn't CCS... it's J1772 (Type1/NA) or Mennekes (Type2/EU). CCS Type-2 is essentially the Mennekes + DC, but without the AC pins..since well, you don't need them.

Once the move to NACS is completed...or at least implemented by BMW, I could see them transitioning to the NACS plug for AC charging...but it's probably a coin flip if it's really necessary. for J1772 cars, you need a NACS/J1772 adapter... for NACS cars, you need a J1772/NACS adapter...it's the way things are right now since we're transitioning.

Yes, I know. The person I was responding to was claiming the EU & UK were switching to NACS, when even Tesla in those countries uses CCS2 for fast charging. A year and a half into owning my BEV, and have never needed to fast charge, level 2 is plenty for 99% of use cases for full BEV (for those with the ability to charge at home).

[msej449]

As the owner of a string of 5 then 3-Series Tourings I think it’s a shame that it isn’t just a regular 3 that’s being imported into the USA. Firstly, a 2024 3 Touring is as big as my first 5 Touring of 20 years ago. Second, here in Europe, what most people actually buy in Touring format isn’t the ‘M’ but generally the regular 3 litre version, perhaps in Sport or M Performance guise.

As mentioned, a lot of the target market are drivers who use the car alone/empty for much of the time, but also want reasonable passenger plus load-carrying capacity as well, and who don’t want an SUV. Yes, the M Touring is a ‘halo’ model but if it’s not meant as a teaser for people to try it out for the potential purchase of a more mainstream version, then I don’t see the point: it’s like selling an M5 sedan, but not any of the regular sedan models.

My previous 330d xDrive Touring

[img]

View post on imgur.com

carrying my MTB inside the car:

[img]

View post on imgur.com

And the view from the back seat:

[img]

View post on imgur.com

[mgamer5]

Crazy that they changed to f90 to g 90 to g99

[13 NF]

Just concerned the design language is so challenged by BMW’s current direction.

I haven’t seen this in the flesh, but it’s no looker on web, I have to reserve judgement but the early pics seem to suggest that dark colours have to be the choice to avoid the rear and side trims just cheapening the whole thing.

The performance will surely take a hit, with that weight, bring those reviews on!

I hope we got a absolute gem here, but it’s looking difficult to love and desire?

For a £110 k car in this economic climate it could be a difficult sell

3.9% apr to follow!

[TargaM2]

Why anyone would buy this hybrid tank over the cool M3 wagon is beyond me.

[stormhammer]

Originally Posted by TargaM2

Why anyone would buy this hybrid tank over the cool M3 wagon is beyond me.

simple. the US doesnt get the M3 wagon.