[aajami]

Originally Posted by Falafel Combo

Horseshit. Who writes these articles? And why would BMW divulge it's 2025 strategy to a mediocre auto publication? Not even a single quote from any BMW executive anywhere to be found, in this fine piece of auto journalism. For christsake, Yahoo autos writes better stuff than this!

Strategic leaks to get the public acclimated to a significant and controversial strategy. Easily deniable if things change, and gets people thinking about the strategy early if things don't.

It's the old "boiling the frog" trick. If you toss a frog in a pot of boiling water, he'll jump out right away. If you put a frog in cold water and gradually turn up the heat over a long period of time, he won't realize that he's sitting in boiling water.

BMW has done this regularly with news of turbos and AWD on M cars and FWD architectures. Hell, that's @Scott26's primary job description.

[focal]

the future will be

8-10 speed automatics
xdrive hybrids systems, running 100% electric w/ gas engine range extenders (2-4cyl)
extensive use of aluminum and CF
electronic nannies and automation

The only original BMW traits will be handling and superior power trains (lots of HP/Torque) compared to their pedestrian peers. Interiors will be state of the art electronics along with the usual luxury.

we are heading towards less about the driving but more about coddling and just awesome muscle cars. We have long ago passed real driving, or most people would buy Miatas and learn to maximize it's potential. There's more bragging about 0-60/power numbers, how much $$ you spent, the badge, style and fuel economy.

[EnI]

Guys, don't forget that by 2021 an AVERAGE FLEET CO2 emission has to be reduced to 95g/km. Meaning all the best-selling mainstream models will have to feature powertrains that with comply to that strict environmental standard.

Meaning: there will be LOTS of hybrids. Not only by BMW but also from all the other European carmakers. And not only in large cars, crossovers & SUVs & vans etc but also in compact & small ones. So, by 2021-25 (BMW is expected to meet 95g/km fleet average standard by 2024) most of European cars will be hybrids. And there will be a lot more BEVs, EREVs & BEVxs available than today.

The future is ELECTRIC. Period.

There will also be a lot more of Driver Assistance Systems - with (semi)autonomous driving (the level of driving autonomy will depend on legislative progress).

So, what that means for the Ultimate Driving Machine / Sheer Driving Pleasure ... Nothing special in particular. The paradigm & understanding of "driving" is changing rapidly, so ... In the future the Ultimate Driving & Driving Pleasure won't necessarily be associated with notion of active / engaging / fast driving. And BMW will offer such ultimate driving & driving pleasure as will be considered as such by majority at that particular time.

[puma1552]

Originally Posted by EnI

The future is ELECTRIC. Period.

What about the batteries?

[MalibuBimmer]

Future BMWs will also have 50-50 weight distribution (and modern renditions of the kidney grille). Equal weight distribution -- balance -- is another hallmark of the brand while others don't care very much about it.

[EnI]

Originally Posted by puma1552

What about the batteries?

The tech is there. Lithium solid state batteries ... lighter, more powerful, better autonomy, faster charging. What lacks are economies of scales - to make such tech affordable for mass-produced & high-volume cars. That will happen VERY RAPIDLY by 2025 - since carmakers are forced to meet the new environmental standards, and will (all of them) invest al lot to achieve proper economies of scale by that time! Consequently the hi-tech batteries will become (much more) affordable.

Same will happen to CFRP which will become much more used in automotive industry - helping to lower or retain the total vehicle weight despite electric / hybrid powertrain on board.

The electric grid & charging stations are also being under (re)construction & constant update. Electric suppliers, carmakers, municipalities, cites, sates etc all have planes to develop the charging infrastructure in the next years.

Legislators in US, EU & China are pushing & forcing carmakers & their suppliers (eg CFRP, batteries etc) to develop better thing quicker than expected, and produce them at cost-effective levels. Competition among carmakers, battery makers, CF(RP) makers etc also forces all the parties to invest in R&D and new production facilities to gain advantage over the rivals.

So, the development in EVs will be much quicker in the next 10 years than it has been in the last 10 years. Much, much, much quicker & steeper!

Expect an EXPLOSION & REVOLUTION when it comes to (PH)EVs. The next 10 years (and beyond) will be VERY EXCITING era in the automotive industry. The paradigm change is almost here!

[warzilla]

I'm keeping my gas powered BMWs forever.

[BD SM3RF]

Originally Posted by IB M

Only 8 years away, not really that long. I am sure the new cars will be high performance capable but I will still be holding on to my gas powered rear drive M3 thank you.

PS At least we can rest assured that making and disposing of batteries is environmentally friendly.

Ha Ha. So much symbolism over substance with the environment benefits of plug-in hybrids (coal fired cars).

1. How any new power plants and associated infrastructure need to be built?

2. Do we have a clue about the environment impact of batter technology? Not convinced its that much better than oil at this point. Can't wait to see the formation of Organization of Lithium Exporting Countries

I am not against new technology at and believe this my be something that will appeal to me but don't tell me that environmentally its that much better and gas which continues to become more efficient. I hope BMW isn't putting too many eggs in the plug-in basket, letting current tech suffer or turning everything into plag-ins because it may very well not be the future especially when some guy figures out how to turn salt water into fuel

[JNoSol]

Originally Posted by puma1552

I think the issue is this is an enthusiast website.

This technology announcement might be cool coming from Toyota or Honda - not BMW.

Frankly I'm not sure what's more unnerving, the fact BMW is going this way or the fact half the comments on an enthusiast website are in favor of this. At the rate BMW is going it will only be a matter of time before everything is a FWD plug in POS with no soul. The i3 is disgusting, especially at the price point, surprise surprise.

Understand. But BMW didn't get this far by not being innovative. Fans will bitch about anything new until they drive it. Look at the i8, people thought it would be a joke but they shut up when it smokes a Vette. Fans bitched about turbos in the new M3, even knowing it's clearly faster than the V8 M3.

[EnI]

Originally Posted by ecleland

Ha Ha. So much symbolism over substance with the environment benefits of plug-in hybrids (coal fired cars).

1. How any new power plants and associated infrastructure need to be built?

2. Do we have a clue about the environment impact of batter technology? Not convinced its that much better than oil at this point. Can't wait to see the formation of Organization of Lithium Exporting Countries

I am not against new technology at and believe this my be something that will appeal to me but don't tell me that environmentally its that much better and gas which continues to become more efficient. I hope BMW isn't putting too many eggs in the plug-in basket, letting current tech suffer or turning everything into plug-ins because it may very well not be the future especially when some guy figures out how to turn salt water into fuel

It's not a secret traffic has been the main culprit for air pollution. OK, fossil fuel based power plants don't lag much behind but traffic is more dangerous due to distribution of pollutant agents / gases within heavily populated areas. So, traffic (unless you live near coal power plant) has much more negative effect on average person's health than power plants. Although greenhouse effects are the same - it doesn't matter what's the source of the troubled gases.

So, generally reducing fossil fuel consumption in traffic will have positive effects on people & micro-environment. But increased electricity production from fossil-fuel powered power plants will still have effect on greenhouse effect - so there will hardly be any reductions & positive effects here unless more electricity is produced in a sustainable way (wind, solar & hydro power ... and to lesser extent nuclear power).

When it comes to batteries ... they can be reused for some other purpose outside automotive world after vehicle's life cycle ends ... and in the end most materials from batteries can be recycled ... since batteries are produced in a such way they can be recycled.

The benefits of EVs are tangible. What holds EVs expansion down are huge initial R&D & production costs until the breaking point (of economies of scale) is reached ... And investments in electrical grid. And the lack of charging standards. But in the end one will certainly prevail. What needs to happen with electric cars is the mass production - something Ford has done with model T and made the cars affordable (although they weren't efficient at all at that time, nor safe, nor comfortable, nor reliable etc). Musk has the same idea when it comes to EVs ... But fortunately he's not alone. Other carmakers are on the same page - only the need a bit more time (since they have to make a smooth transition from ICEVs to BEVs & PHEVs - something Tesla don't have to since they don't make ICE cars).

[WilliCO]

Didn't Neil Peart write a song about this?

[F82FTW]

Originally Posted by Thumper333

Unless it has 500+ mile range, can recharge in less than 5 minutes, and recharge stations at every gas station.......guess I won't be in a 3 series after that.

These things are fun tech fads, but can never replace a real car. Sad.

What an ignorant comment. I must say.

This technology IS replacing gas cars. Don't hold your breath...but it is happening and well within our lifetime.

[krnnerdboy]

Originally Posted by deadfresh

This is true. I will be getting the full rebate in February which will almost cover the entire two year lease cost of the Leaf.

Strange, in ca the fed rebate 7500, is discounted from the start of you lease and the state rebate for 2500 is only applicable for 3+ yrs of ownership.



And yes, I'm all for technology. I wanted to buy a tesla, but from a reputable car company...Bmw

[GJR]

Originally Posted by warzilla

I'm keeping my gas powered BMWs forever.

Don't worry- if legislators don't make it illegal to own a gas powered vehicle in the future, they will certainly tax the hell out of it. It's what they'll do to force people into these sheep mobiles. Wait and see.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by krnnerdboy

Strange, in ca the fed rebate 7500, is discounted from the start of you lease and the state rebate for 2500 is only applicable for 3+ yrs of ownership.



And yes, I'm all for technology. I wanted to buy a tesla, but from a reputable car company...Bmw

You want to buy a Tesla from BMW? Okay... !?!

Tesla makes the safest car to date, and that's not enough?

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

Didn't Neil Peart write a song about this?

Maybe he did. Such a brain. What songs does this remind you of?

[ssstraub]

Originally Posted by cc3

Will always be a niche offer. Technology too complicated, added weight, oil price tumbling. Little real world benefit. BMW always said their cars were the ultimate driving machine. Seem to be moving towards packing cars with technology which adds to weight and leaves the cars far from being the ultimate driving machine

It's almost like some here are completely unaware that the Tesla Model S exists and has already proven the examples such as those given above to be incorrect.

The main issue is with the Model S is price. Fix that and I see too many major advantages with electric to care about gas anymore. An electric motor is as simple as it gets, especially vs something as complicated as an ICE.

The future is looking great!

[Law]

Originally Posted by antzcrashing

Thats nice and all but in real world driving the 4 cylinder turbo bmw of 2015 gets worse MPGs than my inline 6 in my 2006 330i, real world not on paper. How do I know? Ive driven both engines and seen the gas tank empty faster in the 4cyl. The epa rating of these engines is BS, Favoring smaller turbo engines when in reality they offer worse fuel economy.

And with gasoline prices falling do we really need to be plugging in our cars to save money?

Real world or not the trend is here to stay and manufacturers will make the changes necessary to stay in business and to stay competitive.

Like you i've driven plenty of BMWs, old and new and i can also confirm that one can easily take an E36, of example, and achieve the same or better MPG than a modern F30.
Do i agree with these new regulations and their methods of testing? Absolutely not.
It is due to the methods used in testing MPG by the likes of the EPA et al that have fueled the trend towards turbocharged smaller displacement engines.
While real world results may or may not reflect this, the governing bodies only care about results on paper and oil is most definitely not going to stay at $50/barrel.
So this trend is here to stay, unfortunately.
I, for one, will be driving my thirsty NA high revving engine with caveman technology for as long as i possibly can.

[WilliCO]

Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut

Maybe he did. Such a brain. What songs does this remind you of?

Red Barchetta. In his song he steals away to drive his uncle's old sportscar surreptitiously, because there's a "motor law" and everyone else has to drive "gleaming alloy air cars."

Heck, why not:

My uncle has a country place that no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm before the Motor Law
And on Sundays, I elude the eyes, hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground as the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Then run like the wind as excitement shivers up and down my spine
But down in his barn, my uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years, to keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta from a better vanished time
Ooh, fired up the willing engine, responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime

Wind in my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge

Well-weathered leather, hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires to run the deadly race
It goes screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind, straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan
At the one lane bridge, I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm to dream with my uncle at the fireside.

[ORIGIN M.]

Originally Posted by WillInDenver

Red Barchetta. In his song he steals away to drive his uncle's old sportscar surreptitiously, because there's a "motor law" and everyone else has to drive "gleaming alloy air cars."

Heck, why not:

My uncle has a country place that no one knows about
He says it used to be a farm before the Motor Law
And on Sundays, I elude the eyes, hop the turbine freight
To far outside the wire, where my white-haired uncle waits

Jump to the ground as the turbo slows to cross the borderline
Then run like the wind as excitement shivers up and down my spine
But down in his barn, my uncle preserved for me an old machine
For fifty odd years, to keep it as new has been his dearest dream

I strip away the old debris that hides a shining car
A brilliant red Barchetta from a better vanished time
Ooh, fired up the willing engine, responding with a roar
Tires spitting gravel, I commit my weekly crime

Wind in my hair
Shifting and drifting
Mechanical music
Adrenaline surge

Well-weathered leather, hot metal and oil
The scented country air
Sunlight on chrome, the blur of the landscape
Every nerve aware

Suddenly ahead of me across the mountainside
A gleaming alloy air car shoots towards me, two lanes wide
I spin around with shrieking tires to run the deadly race
It goes screaming through the valley as another joins the chase

Drive like the wind, straining the limits of machine and man
Laughing out loud with fear and hope, I've got a desperate plan
At the one lane bridge, I leave the giants stranded at the riverside
Race back to the farm to dream with my uncle at the fireside.

Bingo. Yes I remember every word.

Love the song. The mighty music that drives it, and the color of the car is a given.

Thanks for taking me back to my younger days!!

As crappy as the weather is today, I am going to go fire up my red BMW and drive it to my appointment. Now I just need to find the music.

[MalibuBimmer]

Originally Posted by JNoSol

Understand. But BMW didn't get this far by not being innovative. Fans will bitch about anything new until they drive it. Look at the i8, people thought it would be a joke but they shut up when it smokes a Vette. Fans bitched about turbos in the new M3, even knowing it's clearly faster than the V8 M3.

I agree with this. There has long been a reverse snobbery associated with BMW. In 1972, I drove my new 3.0CS to an early meeting of the L.A. chapter of BMW CCA at a resturant near U.S.C. All the guys there drove 1600s and 2002s and they thought I was "soft" driving the 6 cylinder and they had little in common with me. It was my last meeting, too.

As you can tell from my signature, I've had a lot of BMWs, but maybe only the Z4 among them is considered to be "real" by the reverse snobs (although I think the M6 counts, too). The i8 has been revelatory. It is, indeed, the future. And the i8 has a lot of BMW DNA in it.

BMW's future will be hybrid and eventually all electric (unless one day we have cold fusion, but not in any of our lifetimes).

[clbmw]

Originally Posted by Law

Interesting you bring it up because one of the reason the automobile became popular was that it solved the problem of horse pollution in urban centers during the 19th century and early 20th century.

Now its car exhaust emissions & safety. Same old story; history often repeats itself. There's gonna be issues with electric drivetrains as well we have just yet to see it.

Renderings look awesome


The problems with electric will be pedestrians being run over by near silent vehicles :


Battery issues whilst not solved are being worked upon by companies, I saw some demo somewhere of a guy who had an organic material based battery on a phone that charged in 3 minutes...