[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

How interesting. I'm so happy you're here to help. When I need it I'll be sure to seek you out.

I dont mean it personal, but its like not eating icecream because it contains too much calories, but at the same time eating loads of hamburgers.
If you know a better word for that reasoning/behaviour, please say so.

I mean not driving a tesla because it might emit too much em radiation but at the same time hold an antenna to your ear/brain that can transmit over 10miles....

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I dont mean it personal, but its like not eating icecream because it contains too much calories, but at the same time eating loads of hamburgers.
gr

Sugar has a very different impact on human metabolism than animal fat.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Sugar has a very different impact on human metabolism than animal fat.

Ok, hamburgers and pure animal lard then.
Sugar is indeed much easier to convert to ATP than fat, but you get the point instead of going over details I think.

[Sedoy]

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by GuidoK

pure animal lard

All lard is animal fat. If you have non animal lard, it's not actually lard. Though as much fun as this line of conversation is, I fail to see the relevancy.

[Bmw doubles]

And eggs have the good cholesterol

[Sedoy]

Seems like the right place to ask: what vitamins would you recommend guys?

[zer0cool]

It's really strange that people somehow try to evaluate Model S using sports car measures...

It's not a sports car.

It's a big, heavy, 4-door luxury sedan that uses electric instead of gas power. It has fairly good luxury features plus the best technology in any mass-production sedan today. It is primarily used for daily commuting between home, work/school and other everyday living activities. It just happens to be also somewhat quick and good to drive under daily driving conditions.

No one evaluates a 7 series based on how it performs on a track, but how it performs its intended functions.

The Model S performs its intended functions very well. Overwhelming majority of its owners agree with this statement.

If instead you want a car for other purposes, then you should purchase other cars that are better fit for such purposes.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I fail to see the relevancy.

I'm beginning to believe that you want to fail to see the relevancy, deliberately evading your original statement or my reaction to that and trying to steer the discussion in other directions by going into irrelevant details like nitpicking on how 'animal lard' is a pleonasm.

But then again you didnt seem to understand that a cell phone emits far far far more em radiation than electronics in a car which is I think pretty obvious. So not buying a tesla because its full of electronics that can emit harmful EM radiation but still use things like a mobile phone or other equipment with wifi, bluetooth &gprs that emit far more EM radiation is well... I named that already didnt I

Originally Posted by zer0cool

It's really strange that people somehow try to evaluate Model S using sports car measures...

It's not a sports car.

I think its because tesla uses the word performance a lot in their model S marketing and on their website.
But then again that word can probably be found on any website about a car model, maybe even the prius. Only maybe not that much.
It certainly wont be compared to the mclaren F1...
Also statements like (and I quote this from their website) "With its digital torque controls and low center of gravity, Dual Motor Model S has the most capable road holding and handling of any vehicle ever produced."
Its not a specific claim, but where would you test something like that other than on a track? What defines the most capable handling?
I mean without backing up a such claim in specific measurable/sizeable parameters, they're just empty words arent they?

[ShocknAwe]

Counting the days until the next fad comes around and tesla crashes hard like they should have years ago. Best thing about it is the R&D that has gone into battery tech. Well see how much of it ever comes to market outside of cars.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

I'm beginning to believe that you want to fail to see the relevancy, deliberately evading your original statement or my reaction to that and trying to steer the discussion in other directions by going into irrelevant details like nitpicking on how 'animal lard' is a pleonasm.

Sorry, just not interested in discussing anecdotal observation with you. Provide me with literature like i mentioned earlier and I might humor you. Might. That's the reason. Very simple. Do you understand? Had my fun, thanks.

[lorinzo]

Just saw this "tested" in an episode of Top Gear USA, S8 E4.

They compared a 2016 Cadillac CTS-V, a 2015 Dodge Charger Hellcat and 2016 Tesla P90D.

In a drag race, the Tesla jumped out to a lead but was caught by the Hellcat ... (Tesla speed limited to 155).

On the track, the Cadillac had the best time. Dodge and Tesla were about the same.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Sorry, just not interested in discussing anecdotal observation with you. Provide me with literature like i mentioned earlier and I might humor you. Might. That's the reason. Very simple. Do you understand? Had my fun, thanks.

People have been using mobile phones too now for 3 decades. That also isnt enough?

Or do you also dont believe that a device that can be detected and transmit data over a distance more than 10 miles emits more RF radiantion than a car?
There is nothing anecdotal about that. Unless you want it to be in your own mind...
You may call it anecdotal but the rest of the world calls it common sense.

And like I said: not buying a tesla for that reason but still using a mobile phone, computer, bluetooth/wifi equipment etc is either ignorant or hypocrite.
Or both? humor me

[RABAUKE]

I live in the GTA, Greater Toronto Area. The provincial government offers an $8K rebate to anyone who purchases electric cars. Last year the City of Toronto Hydro came out and said that if 10% of the cars in Toronto were electric the grid couldn't support the additional load for charging them. The province has just said that it wants to eliminate the use of Natural Gas for household use, thats furnaces, cooking, hot water heaters, dryers and bbq's. They want everyone to convert to electricity. 62% of the homes in Ontario heat with natural gas. I guess where I'm going with this is that there will have to be lots of infrastructure improvements to support the transition to electric cars. I get that fossil fuels will go the way of the dinosaur but I'm not sure were ready to make the shift just yet.

I think the Tesla is a neat car, I don't see myself in one anytime soon. The range is getting better, but I understand it suffers in extreme cold and heat. I suspect for shorter trips around town when you'll have access to recharging is great, but I'd be a little nervous about driving one to Vancouver. I could be way off on some of my concerns about the range of the vehicle, but I don't think I'm about to sell all my cars and replace them with electric's.

Just my two cents.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

I don't feel the need, or see the rational for electric cars. They are an environmental policy bandaid, and a badly performing one at that.

People are going to buy cars, that much is fact. Electric is also more efficient than gas, even when you take into account pumping that electricity to someone's house, so no "bandaid". Enough infrastructure may not be there to fully support everyone going electric, but the fact remains there is some, which is far more than there is for hydrogen or some of the pie-in-the-sky ideas. The genius about it is that electric cars don't care where the energy comes from, whether it be coal, natural gas-turbines, wind, solar, fusion, fission, hydroelectric, geothermal, or whatever. With ranges now into the hundreds of miles, it's hard to call them "badly performing" anymore. They are actually here and working, unlike in the 90s and 2000s when they were concepts and a few poorly performing prototypes.

[Fundguy1]

You talk as if we are almost running out of gas. We have centuries worth at current projections.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

What product sells hugely? Electrics are less than 1% of the total US car sales. Tesla isn't turning a profit. It's surviving because of projected sales pumping up its stock price. What happens when those sales don't materialize? Remember the dot Com in 1999? Same scenario. Epets.com

I bet they would materialize, but if I had to put my money on it, it is of my opinion that Elon Musk loves to over-promise and underdeliver much like with the massive delays of the Model X and it's apparent reliability problems.

I see the Model 3 suffering the same fate, delays, pissed off people who threw down $1,000 wondering where the fuck their car is, and the $35k model being a steaming pile of shit. With a decent model costing significantly more.

It's also stupid and disingenuous to compare the sales of a single model (since realistically, Tesla really only sold just the Model S until recently) to the entire pool of US car sales. It's also apples to oranges since while most car manufacturers count sales to dealerships as a car sold, Tesla can't do that. They only count it as a sale once a customer takes delivery of the car. And honestly, what single model car would make a significant proportion of TOTAL US car sales?

Tesla sold more Model S's in 2015 (around 50k) than the 5 Series (44k) and the E Class (49k).

A lot of people just buy these things because of the tech, and some of us think they're cool due to the massive amount of torque they make instantly. People who actually give a shit about the environment are probably too poor to buy one of these things anyway and are the ones driving their Prius 15 mph under the speed limit in the left lane with Ralph Nader stickers plastered on their bumpers.

[Fundguy1]

The 1% refers to all electrics manufactured by all car makers, not testicle

[Sedoy]

I noticed that you really like the word "testicle"... there must be a reason...

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

The 1% refers to all electrics manufactured by all car makers, not testicle

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by lorinzo

Just saw this "tested" in an episode of Top Gear USA, S8 E4.

They compared a 2016 Cadillac CTS-V, a 2015 Dodge Charger Hellcat and 2016 Tesla P90D.

In a drag race, the Tesla jumped out to a lead but was caught by the Hellcat ... (Tesla speed limited to 155).

On the track, the Cadillac had the best time. Dodge and Tesla were about the same.

Was this a circuit or straight line? How long is their track if its a circuit? Genuinely curious as i didnt realize TG:US was still on air.

Originally Posted by GuidoK

People have been using mobile phones too now for 3 decades. That also isnt enough?

Just stop. You dont understand the difference between casual observation and causal inference. Waste of time.

Originally Posted by RABAUKE

I think the Tesla is a neat car, I don't see myself in one anytime soon. The range is getting better, but I understand it suffers in extreme cold and heat. I suspect for shorter trips around town when you'll have access to recharging is great, but I'd be a little nervous about driving one to Vancouver. I could be way off on some of my concerns about the range of the vehicle, but I don't think I'm about to sell all my cars and replace them with electric's.

Range is certainly getting better but realistically the only place to charge is at home. Until a car can be charged without overloading the grid in less than a minute, the tech just isnt ready.

Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes

People are going to buy cars, that much is fact. Electric is also more efficient than gas, even when you take into account pumping that electricity to someone's house, so no "bandaid". Enough infrastructure may not be there to fully support everyone going electric, but the fact remains there is some, which is far more than there is for hydrogen or some of the pie-in-the-sky ideas. The genius about it is that electric cars don't care where the energy comes from, whether it be coal, natural gas-turbines, wind, solar, fusion, fission, hydroelectric, geothermal, or whatever. With ranges now into the hundreds of miles, it's hard to call them "badly performing" anymore. They are actually here and working, unlike in the 90s and 2000s when they were concepts and a few poorly performing prototypes.

Clearly electric motors perform well as long as the battery, or power supply, is there and providing unrestricted access. The "poorly performing bandaid" is as you said, electric power doesnt care where the energy comes from. Typically, i believe it to be coal. This is not ideal. Of course, correct me if im wrong. Lucky be the person who lives in an area with all wind or hydro generated power. Even efficient waste nuclear, but that tech is slow to disseminate thanks to political hindrance. Then theres the batteries, hopefully that situation has improved along with longevity and capacity advances.

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

You talk as if we are almost running out of gas. We have centuries worth at current projections.

No kidding, and auto emissions account for an incredibly small percentage of overall anthropogenic sources. Hybrid tech i get. The 918, LaF, P1, hell even i8 are technological marvels and absolutely a way forward. My mothers lexus ct200h gets over 50mpg in town, can pass in the left lane all day long, and has been driven coast to coast.

So whats the damn point in all electric? Fuck all i can identify.

[ShocknAwe]

Originally Posted by fecurtis

the ones driving their Prius 15 mph under the speed limit in the left lane with Ralph Nader stickers plastered on their bumpers.

[fecurtis]

Originally Posted by Fundguy1

The 1% refers to all electrics manufactured by all car makers, not testicle

Noted but my point still stands:

It's also apples to oranges since while most car manufacturers count sales to dealerships as a car sold, Tesla can't do that. They only count it as a sale once a customer takes delivery of the car.

So manufacturer's count those i3's and Leafs that are rotting on dealer lots as sales, Tesla has no licensed dealers so they can't do that.

[GuidoK]

Originally Posted by ShocknAwe

Just stop. You dont understand the difference between casual observation and causal inference. Waste of time.

you can call it what you want but basically you're saying nothing. Yes thats right, nothing at all. So who's wasting who's time?

Certainly when you said "I know what the ill effects of my twin-turbo I6 car are."
Right, casual observation you said eh?

there's no denying it, the remarks you made in that post were pretty ignorant. You're looking for ways to not admitting that, by nitpicking on details on other peoples reactions, instead of explaining or elaborating what you stated in that post. Because you know that would get you in an even more ignorant position.
But hey, every person can use its own logic. that's why the tin foil hats army is so big.
But I still dont understand why you have no problem with using an em transmitter so close to your body, all the time (I presume you carry a phone) that transmits in far greater energy and use other electronics that are basically the same as in that car (computers, power regulators, electric motors etc), but somehow if it says tesla, your suddenly afraid? And also why you wont elaborate on that? You're ashamed for that or something like that?
I think most people that are afraid for em radiation are afraid for em radiation in general. You know, being afraid that they become em hypersensitive or something (which is a mental condition btw)

I just dont like tesla's because 1: I think they market a product in such a way that doesnt quite correspond with the product you're getting, and 2: where I live those cars are so heavily subsidized which costs a lot of social/tax money for an enviromental benefit which isnt there at the moment as 60-80percent of all electricity is still generated with fossil fuel. Also this tax benefit only applied for people who could 1. afford the car and 2. used the car in a business construction.
But I'm not afraid of what might be the impact of em radiation generated by that particular car.